V7II first service

[Air-Cooled]

I looked at the diagram again and it says the central bolt uses Loctite 542...is that Blue Loctite?

[Kev m]

I looked at the diagram again and it says the central bolt uses Loctite 542...is that Blue Loctite?

I'm not sure I've ever bothered, but:

https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/product/thread-sealants/loctite_542.html

[malik]

Somewhere on here is a complete set of instructions with photos from Pete Roper for the 1TB re-torquing, nut sizes, torques & all. Perhaps as far back as 2015 or 2016.

[Cam3512]

Everything.

Crack em all off, then use a crossing pattern.

I feel like I did the central one first (loosen) and last (tighten) but I'd have to check.

Only thing I differ on here is I crack them loose slightly then torque to spec ONE AT A TIME in a criss-cross pattern.  This keeps everything tight during the process. 

[Vagrant]

to be clear one is a smaller diameter and is less torque. I don't remember the amounts but will look and see if I have them here somewhere.
And yes the valves need to be set then and two fingers and the thumb tight not a whole fist full. easy to replace if you did break one but common sense should tell you where to stop.
the head will leak soon enough if not done then it's pull the heads and new gaskets time. your choice.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Kevin,
          How about putting the torque settings for V7ii and V7iii in this thread, it's hard to find them in the manual.
I have often wondered about torquing the tappet locknut, it wouldn't hurt even if the gap changes a little, it would just be a matter of changing the start point, I think I tend to over tighten them worried that they might work loose. I had a Lario for a while, it was getting a bit tappy so I took the cover off to check one of the screws fell out onto the ground, in spite of running that way for several hundred miles no damage was done.
It must have been running as a 3 Valve lol

[Kev m]

Ok, I'm finally at my desk again.

I looked at the diagram again and it says the central bolt uses Loctite 542...is that Blue Loctite?

You're looking at the wrong part on the diagram, the part labelled for the Loctite is the STUD itself when installed into the cylinder.

Kevin,
          How about putting the torque settings for V7ii and V7iii in this thread, it's hard to find them in the manual.
I have often wondered about torquing the tappet locknut, it wouldn't hurt even if the gap changes a little, it would just be a matter of changing the start point, I think I tend to over tighten them worried that they might work loose. I had a Lario for a while, it was getting a bit tappy so I took the cover off to check one of the screws fell out onto the ground, in spite of running that way for several hundred miles no damage was done.
It must have been running as a 3 Valve lol

OK, look, I'm happy to help but it's not hard to find them in the manuals (which are available online for download) and sorry, but I just now had my first real break of the day. Jenn is back working in the hospital and the kids are homeschooling through at least 4/20 which means I'm not only cooking for 4, but I'm also running school most mornings.

Ok, with my whining out of the way, I rechecked and came up with the following as per V750IE Engine Manual (#B043109):

4 large nuts (M10 x 1.5) - tighten in at least 2 steps - first to 18 ft. lbs. (28 Nm), and then to 31 ft. lbs. (42 Nm)
1 small nut (no diameter or thread listed here, but M8 listed elsewhere) - tighten to 21 ft. lbs. (28 Nm)



This more or less agrees with what I see in an old 2TB V7C manual (#981078). Though that manual says:

M10 nuts: 29.50 - 30.97 ft. lbs. (40 - 42 Nm)
M8 nuts: 20.65 - 22.12 ft. lbs. (28 - 30 Nm)

Now HERE is what I have in my notes from Pete:

Head Retorque by Pete

With the re-torque I crack all four big nuts off after the small one towards the centreline of he bike I then re-torque to 32ft/lbs on the four big ones and lastly the smaller centre nut which is I believe 22ft/lbs.

I find the need for this bizarre as the head gaskets are the 'Monotorque' type and they are always done up much tighter ex-factory than they are when you re-do them!!! 

And he's mentioning only ONE smaller nut at the center? I can't remember either way, it was almost 6 years ago lol. EDIT- looking at the stud count I'd say 4 large nuts and 1 small per side, but for some reason the parts count only shows the large nut count as one side while the rest of the counts are total for the bike (both sides).

I'd have to look for that info on the V7III, but I would be hesitant to add it here because it might confuse some into thinking that's a maintenance item on the III when it is not.

[Vagrant]

correct on all. Ithink guzzi Steve said he added 1 foot pound to all and said to recheck at 25000 or so but never had a head gasket go again.

[SmithSwede]

It's your bike, your mental health, and your money, so do whatever makes you happy.   

Personally, I just run the recommended synthetic 10W-60 oil in my V7 and don't worry at all about a change interval of 6,000 to 7,000 miles.  I think modern synthetic oil really is that good, and FI engines really are much cleaner in operation.   I'm operating in Texas, so it gets plenty hot here too.   

Oh, and I don't have a sump spacer.  Just the stock sump.   When I change the oil but not filter, it likes to get about 1.5 liters.  I'm fine with that.

Now if I didn't ride the bike very often or very far, and thus never "burned" the water vapor out, I'd probably change the oil more frequently.   And if I was going to store the bike for a long period of time, I'd probably change the oil before storage.   But otherwise?   My view is trust the modern synthetic oil and don't overthink this.   

[MMRanch]

Air Cooled

Your torque wrench can measure when your loosing a nut also !   Start LOW and go up 1 lb at a time till it comes loose , ain't nothing hard about it ! 

When I check my oil I get some on my finger and FEEL what its like.   
BUT
I'll change it at most 10K miles even if it still FEELS good .    If it FEELS good then its still good , FEELS bad then it don't matter if its 3 miles on it --- I don't want it in my engine.   Some of those DINO oils don't FEEL as good when NEW ,as 10K mile old Synthetic's oils  !

Using the BEST oil is Cheeper in the long run !

[Kev m]

Air Cooled

Your torque wrench can measure when your loosing a nut also !   Start LOW and go up 1 lb at a time till it comes loose , ain't nothing hard about it ! 

Two things to consider:

* I was always taught that static torque was different than dynamic when using a torque wrench. That is it takes more to break it loose than to get to a point when rotating. I can't say I understand the difference, and it may be an rch, but it does likely mean you can't count on measuring torque on a fastener that way, at least not with 100% accuracy.

* Pete R has said he always *thought* the head fasteners were tighter from the factory than they were after retorque. Now that's a perception and could be false, or it could also mean your suggestion wouldn't help.

Not that it matters, we have the specs.

[alanp]

It's your bike, your mental health, and your money, so do whatever makes you happy.   

Personally, I just run the recommended synthetic 10W-60 oil in my V7 and don't worry at all about a change interval of 6,000 to 7,000 miles.  I think modern synthetic oil really is that good, and FI engines really are much cleaner in operation.   I'm operating in Texas, so it gets plenty hot here too.   

Oh, and I don't have a sump spacer.  Just the stock sump.   When I change the oil but not filter, it likes to get about 1.5 liters.  I'm fine with that.

Now if I didn't ride the bike very often or very far, and thus never "burned" the water vapor out, I'd probably change the oil more frequently.   And if I was going to store the bike for a long period of time, I'd probably change the oil before storage.   But otherwise?   My view is trust the modern synthetic oil and don't overthink this.

+1    I agree with the above, but SmithSwede has the goods to back up his words as his V7 just passed the 100,000 mile mark.  I just changed my oil today at 12,000 miles (6,000 change interval).  The oil was still transparent, just a tad browner than new.  No sump spacer either. 

[Air-Cooled]

Well, I am glad we have covered this from A to Z.  I have learned something.

[kingoffleece]

And V7 oil only has the motor to worry about.  No shearing from the gears.

[Dave Swanson]

Because of this thread, last night I re-torqued the heads on my 2015 V7.  There can be a benefit to re-hashing all of this stuff for the umpteenth time.   

Due to a number of extenuating circumstances my 2015 V7 has quite low miles.    When I completed the first service awhile back, for some reason I thought the heads did not require the re-torque procedure.  After reading through all of this I realized I had been misinformed.  Now I can rest easy.   

[sign216]

I wrote a short essay on re-torquing the older 2TB V7.  "Click" on the photos for the text.  And there's at least one good photo in there.

Joe

   https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157627672086548

[Dave Swanson]

And there's at least one good photo in there.

Joe

   https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157627672086548

There certainly is!!

[Air-Cooled]

I brought the bike back to Tom and he retorqued the heads, and redid the valves.  All good.  Now for transmission and final drive.

[sign216]

Air-Cooled,

I also wrote guides for Trans and Final Drive, but for the earlier V7.  Sadly, my assistant wasn't there for those.  There may be some tips, even if the eye candy isn't present.

Joe

  https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157626993357143

  https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157625569987011

[Kev m]

Air-Cooled,

I also wrote guides for Trans and Final Drive, but for the earlier V7.  Sadly, my assistant wasn't there for those.  There may be some tips, even if the eye candy isn't present.

Joe

  https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157626993357143

  https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157625569987011

CAUTION - the TRANSMISSION is different on the V7II and later models (6-speeds).

There is no level plug.

There is a filter screen to remove behind (above) the drain plug.

The first service seems to bring a lot of RTV or something out with the filter screen which should be removed and cleaned.

Capacity is MUCH lower on the 6-speed transmissions - and since there's no way to check it most seem to be VERY slightly under-filling it by measuring and estimating how much was left behind, or actually measuring how much drains and just matching that.

Over-filling it seems to lead to mist or worse out the breather.

[Air-Cooled]

I drained the transmission, let it sit for 15 min to drain fully.  Did not measure the amount that drained.  Replaced with 2 cups of synthetic (that's just under 500cc). The filter screen had no debris on it. Hopefully no mist.

[Kev m]

I drained the transmission, let it sit for 15 min to drain fully.  Did not measure the amount that drained.  Replaced with 2 cups of synthetic (that's just under 500cc). The filter screen had no debris on it. Hopefully no mist.

 

[Air-Cooled]

Before the substandard spark plug caps start acting up perform a preemptive attack by replacing them with a NGK phenolic cap.  This will require changing the spark plug to the type with the threaded top.  It is a cheap modification and will prevent grief in the future.

Cap - NGK XD05F
Plug - NGK CPR8EA-9

If I use the recommended cap & plug, can I use the original wires?  Also, is it easy to remove the wire from the existing cap and connect it to the NGK?

[malik]

The original HT cables are fine. On the earlier 1TB (& 2TB) the caps unscrew & re-screw into the wires, just like a self-tapper. Just ensure the copper ends are bright & there's no corrosion. If needed you could nip off a few mm without affecting the length.

[jpv7]

I drained the transmission, let it sit for 15 min to drain fully.  Did not measure the amount that drained.  Replaced with 2 cups of synthetic (that's just under 500cc). The filter screen had no debris on it. Hopefully no mist.

After some experimenting, i just put in 450 ml, or it will come out of the breather during hard running.  Makes sense as there is still some in there after draining.  Done a few changes this way and no issues.

[Bulldog9]

Not sure how much this applies to the 6 speed transmissions, but there are a couple threads saying that the correct amount of transmission fluid in 5 speeds is critical. Too low can damage some of the smaller bearings in the transmission. The failing bearings can mimic the sound of a bad throwout bearing. Obviously similar concerns with overfilling and blowing out the breather.


https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=90543.0

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=91373.0



 

[Kev m]

Not sure how much this applies to the 6 speed transmissions, but there are a couple threads saying that the correct amount of transmission fluid in 5 speeds is critical. Too low can damage some of the smaller bearings in the transmission. The failing bearings can mimic the sound of a bad throwout bearing. Obviously similar concerns with overfilling and blowing out the breather.


https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=90543.0

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=91373.0

I believe the differences include the fact that the 5-speeds have something like double the capacity of the 6-speeds, and they have a way to check the level (level plug).

IIRC the 6-speeds have a pump so that might make the level somewhat less critical. As you know the 6-speeds are prone to misting or belching fluid if they are over-filled even in the slightest. I think the 5-speeds are more tolerant of slightly higher levels.

[kingoffleece]

I fill my 5 speed until it weeps out the check level hole.

[pyoungbl]

FWIW, many Asian built motorcycles have two oil pumps just like the V7III.  The second pump is there to provide pressurized oil to the various bearings in the tranny.  I'm guessing that those bearings are plain bearings which need oil under pressure whereas the older 5 speed used ball bearings which only need splash lube.  Pete R., feel free to correct me.  This would not be the first time I'm wrong!

Peter Y.