Author Topic: Bread Thread  (Read 9908 times)

Online cliffrod

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Bread Thread
« on: March 24, 2020, 09:30:25 AM »
With many stores sold out of flour, that should mean some have adequate flour at home.  This is a good time to do a bread thread.  Nothing goes better with good food already being discussed here than good bread.

My background includes a traditional culinary apprenticeship supplemented by years of self-directed journeyman work across multiple states.   This background benefited my work as Executive Chef in numerous operations as well as recruitment into multiple culinary education programs as developer and educator.     As time passed, the kitchen schedule became less desirable to me than the studio schedule.

Dough is a favorite endeavor and one that I greatly enjoy sharing with others.  One year was spent stretching and throwing pizzas in VT.  Another was spent doing traditional hand stretched & kettled bagels in TN, averaging 1200lbs of dough a day- 100% of which I personally hand stretched into 4oz bagels.  We added some bread products while I was there, but the oven ran too hot for much normal loaf work.  My biggest single day production there was 2200lbs.  By my dough-schedule records, I did at least 100 tons of dough at the bagel shop alone.

This thread will begin as a general dough lesson.  If there's interest, it will likely develop more like a bike build thread over a longer period of time vs a typical single recipe thread.  Discussing the actual chemistry and physical science of the processes with clear explanation of ingredients helps dispel misunderstanding and misconceptions.  I'll cover a variety of basic doughs and related products.  A simple lean, high-moisture-ratio yeast dough will serve as a baseline.  I'm glad to answer questions along the way but will work to clarify the overall process so people can self-evaluate.  Specific recipes vs specific equipment vs method vs individual baker make for complicated problems, especially when people try to reinvent the wheel.   Be patient and stay on track until you've learned the basics.  You'll like the results.

More soon.
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Offline Ncdan

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2020, 09:48:10 AM »
My wife makes homemade bread from scratch. There’s nothing like waking into the house on a cold winter day after cutting wood all morning to the smell of fresh bread in the oven, the all wood pine interior and wood burning in the wood stove. The fresh perking coffee just adds to the wonderful experience:) just about makes me miss winter when it’s over, just about:)
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 09:49:54 AM by Ncdan »

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2020, 09:57:41 AM »
I went to the local store, most bread was gone, all but what I eat. Potato bread, pretty tasty stuff.
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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2020, 10:05:04 AM »
Using a bread machine we make a semi-whole wheat bread with toasted almond bits and other goodies thrown in as the wife sees fit to make it multigrain. Yes, baking bread is one of those smells that just don't get better than that.
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Offline Guzzistajohn

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2020, 10:25:57 AM »
Wish I could still enjoy bread, can't do the carbs.
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Offline wirespokes

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2020, 10:32:00 AM »
Wow! A man of many and diverse skills! Impressive!  :thumb:

Great timing - we've recently hooked up with a friend who makes bread from sourdough starter. We're gearing up with his help.

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2020, 10:33:25 AM »
I'm looking forward to this thread, I love bread
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Online cliffrod

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2020, 11:40:26 AM »
Thanks guys.  Glad there's some interest.  My grandmother on the farm in VT made bread and it was always my favorite.  Plain, loaf pan, nothing "special" but it was.   If anyone deserves credit for inspiring me to bake bread, she's my hero.

To begin,  the five basic principles of cooking with heat.

1.  Fats melt.
2.  Water evaporates.
3.  Sugars caramelize.
4.  Proteins coagulate.
5.  Starches gelatinize.

1-5 are true of cooking process when heat is used.  Some or all of these specific processes interact throughout the dough/bread process. 

Two additional phenomena that I always add and promote, because these are very relevant.  7 is especially important with all things related to glutinous dough.

6. Salts equate in solution
7. Any fat is a shortening because it shortens gluten strands and tenderizes the product.

These basic principles cover so much in terms of cooking that they are hard to overemphasize.  Know what you are cooking and these principles cover what is happening.  If you apply these basics, much misunderstanding will be resolved.

####

Gluten-

Gluten is greatly misunderstood.   As defined, gluten is an elastic network of structures formed when specific proteins are moistened with water and manipulated. In wheat, glutenin and  gliadin are the specific proteins responsible for gluten potential.  As a stand alone physical substance, "Gluten" does not exist any more than tangle exists in hair.  It can be created, but that's it. 

Claims of health allergies or sensitivity need to be clarified.  Some individuals may have a physiological allergy to a given protein such as glutenin or gliadin.  Others may have a physical sensitivity to glutinous structures caused by a medical condition, much like persons with diverticulitis have physical sensitivities to eating certain food whose partially-chewed granules will lodge in small pockets in the gastrointestinal tract.  Claiming a product is gluten-free often means no more that claiming it is cholesterol-free (cholesterol is animal fat, nothing more nothing less).  I've seen fresh fruit marketed as both gluten-free and cholesterol-free, which only means that specifc banana has neither added wheat or animal fat.   Education is key.

In making bread, the presence of proteins needed for glutinous structures helps determine what is possible with a given dough.  The more % protein present, the higher the gluten potential.  Very strong flour, made from hard wheat, has protein levels ranging up to 14%-16% of volume.  This makes a very elastic dough with long gluten structures.  Weak flour, made from soft wheat, has less protein and thus lower gluten potential.  Protein percentages in the single digits is common with (soft) Pastry flour.  Vital Wheat Gluten is a concentration of wheat protein, so extraordinary gluten potential can be utilized by adding vwg to any flour on hand.

Alternate flours, like rye or almond, have little to no gluten potential.  This is why making a dough with 100% alternate flour will make a dense brick with little to no leavening.  Adding some (usually a majority portion) of regular wheat flour will produce a better loaf.

Whole wheat flour both contains bran, which interferes with glutinous structures and lowers by volume the percentage of protein.  The example I use is being a kid with an old flavorless piece of bubblegum in your mouth.  If you add a piece of new hard candy to your mouth and chew it up to sweeten the gum, the chunks of candy make it tough to blow a good bubble.

A few other terms common to the subject-

Bleaching of flour refers to oxidation, which visually lightens the color of the flour.  This is typically done by controlled exposure of the milled flour to light- not with something like chlorine bleach. 

Malted refers to the process of soaking wheat berries and allowing them to begin to germinate before use. During the process of germination, indigestible (to humans) structures are acted upon by naturally occurring enzymes which makes the structures more digestible.  As a result, access to nutritional value in the malted seed, Berry or legume is enhanced.  This isn't as common with flours, but more likely to be used for whole berries added to a dough.

It is common in many professional kitchens to keep only very high and very low known protein flours (like bagel flour and pastry flour) on hand.  When a specifc recipe is done, amounts of these two flours are scaled together in a ratio to produce the proper protein percentage and thus gluten potential needed.  Pizza dough made with pastry flour is fragile, difficult to stretch without failure and makes for a poor pizza, just like muffins made with high gluten flour are tough like Ellie Mae's biscuits..

Here in my kitchen, I keep AP flour, (usually) King Arthur Bread Flour and self rising flour (a unnecessary cheat in the eyes of some, but it's my kitchen).  For my typical dough, I'll mix AP and bread flour as desired instead of using 100% bread flour.
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1981 Lemans CX100
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Online Moparnut72

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2020, 11:42:11 AM »
I am too, I make bread too but not near often enough. It does take time. As an aside I watched Anton Brown on the food network doing pizza. It was a whole different method of making the dough. I make pizza a lot with my own dough but I have never been really happy with it. His method looked really good. Worth checking out but CliffRod I will also be looking forward to what you have for pizza dough.
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« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 11:43:16 AM by Moparnut72 »
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Online cliffrod

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2020, 01:28:53 PM »
Sugars- simple to complex

Sugar, also called a carbohydrate,  is common in nature as a form of stored energy.  In simple form, it is readily digested by many organisms. In complex form, it may or may not be readily digestible.  One common complex carbohydrate relevant to dough is cellulose.  It acts as structure in plant cell walls. Since humans cannot digest cellulose, it is considered fiber. 

#####

Yeast is a microscopic organism which is not clearly defined as flora or fauna.  Yeast survives by metabolizing sugar within a specific temperature range and within a limited range of salinity.  Too cold and Yeast goes dormant.  This is called retarding.  Too hot, above approx 117f and yeast is killed.  Excessive salt in solution will also slow,or kill yeast altogether.  When yeast metabolizes sugar, it produced CO2 and alcohol.  The length of time given yeast to metabolize sugar has an impact upon dough characteristics.  Given enough time, Yeast is capable of breaking down complex carbohydrates and metabolizing them.  Simple sugars can be metabolized more quickly.  The example I offer is a chef having either a cow (complex) or 2lbs of hamburger (simple) to use to prepare a meal. 

There are several kinds of yeast. 

Fresh or compressed yeast is live, hydrated yeast pressed into blocks. It should be very firm and soft but brittle.  It fractures very well.  Old fresh yeast is rubbery and doesn't break as easily.  Using old fresh yeast is a crap shoot. It is recommended that fresh yeast be bloomed or soaked in water (without without a small amount of flour to check for bubbles/activity) and dissolved before adding to the the dough.  If you plan to mix your dough very well, I've found blooming or hydrating is not as important as simply breaking it up very well.

Dried yeast, granulated yeast or other non-instant forms of dehydrated yeast - as sold in little envelopes or small jars in the supermarket- is recommended to be hydrated before use to ensure uniform distribution throughout the dough.  Unless I have to, I never use these little packets.  They are way overpriced and can be difficult to keep in quantities that I use.

Instant yeast- this is professional yeast.  It is sold in dried granular form, usually in a 1lb vacuum packed brick.  It is added directly to your dry ingredients as is.  It is my preferred yeast for most things and the most economical way to buy yeast.  I  pack of 2- 1lb bags costs about $8-$10 at Costco or SAMs.  As long as the date is good, vacuum not broken or opened yeast is stored in the fridge, two 1lb bags will last us a year.

One detail to remember is to make sure of the quantity specified by the recipe.  Yeast is yeast.  Dehydrated yeast obviously weighs much less than fresh yeast.  Old yeast might work. It might not.  If you want to check your yeast, warm water (warm on your hand, around 100f or just warmer than lukewarm) with a little flour and plain sugar will produce the quickest response. I couldn't tell you when the last time I did this was- I basically never do it.

#####


7. Any fat is a shortening because it shortens gluten strands and tenderizes a product

Along with gluten in general, this is a challenging concept to many.  I worked for years to conceive a simple means to explain and demonstrate this principle.  It works best in person, but hopefully will make sense here in text.

Long gluten strands interlock and tangle with each other, forming a complex network within a dough.  A fat is a lipid, which is a long chain molecule that readily slides along neighboring lipid molecules.  Any fat- whether plant based (which is cholesterol-free) or animal based (cholesterol)- added to a dough will interfere with the development of the glutinous network within a dough.  The result is shorter gluten strands, which in turn are less effective in limiting the passage of gases through a dough.

To demonstrate this principle, I normally cut a handful of 2'-3' long pieces of string or heavy thread. I divide them into two groups.

One group will then be wadded and twisted together into a chaotic tangled mass.  This represents a glutinous structure within dough made with no fat (called a lean dough).  That tangled mass will hold some shape on its own and trap many things if passed through the mass. As a mass,  It will be very strong.  A dough like this will be very elastic, chewy and have a strong internal web or matrix structure.

The other group will be "shortened". A pair of scissors is used to clip the strands into many shorter pieces before the pieces are wadded and twisted together in the same manner as above.  This represents a dough to which fat is added (an enriched dough), which shortens the gluten strands and tenderizes the product.   The chaotic mass formed will not be as strong or provide as much structure. It will not maintain any significant shape in comparison to the un-shortened example.   It will not be as effective as a trap to items.  A dough like this will be more fragile and more tender to eat.

This is why it is important to understand that ANY fat is a shortening, in terms of dough production.  Olive oil, butter, milk and any other fat added will limit gluten potential in a dough.  If that's what you want, great. Otherwise, don't do it.  For example, Many people make a pizza dough with olive oil and then have dissatisfaction with the results.  That's because they want a strong gluten characteristic dough but are defeating that goal by shortening the dough without understanding what they are doing.

#####

Dough is leavened (raised or puffed up) by three specific actions.    All have dependence upon the presence of the network of glutinous structures within the dough.  The elastic network traps and slows the passage of gases through a dough.

1. Water evaporates. 
   As water changes state from liquid to gas and expands in volume, the expanding gas occupies more space.  Since all dough is made with water, this action is always of the leavening process.

2. Yeast
   As yeast metabolizes sugar, it creates co2 (respiration) and alcohol (waste byproduct).  The CO2 is already in gaseous form.  The nominal amount of alcohol will evaporate and provide minor leavening.  The warmer the conditions, the more vigorously the activity of the yeast until it is killed by heat.  If not killed by heat, salinity or retarded by cold temps, yeast activity can continue for extended lengths of time.   

3.  Acid-Base reaction
   More common to quick breads (high ratio water fluid or semi-fluid batter instead of a determinant dough mass) with lower gluten potential, any acid-base reaction will produce a gas and a salt.  This is not as powerful at leavening as basic evaporation or yeast and is limited by the amount of acid and base in solution.   Imbalance will leave either acid or base in the product, which make cause off flavor.  Excess acid-base actions can produce excess salt(s) in the product and cause an off flavor.   Single acting baking powder has both dehydrated acid and base.  When hydrated, the leaving action begins immediately.  Double acting baking powder has an additional pair of acid-base components that require heat as a catalyst.  This provide an initial leaven when mixed plus a second leaven when heated in the oven. 

There may be recipes calling for both yeast and either baking powder or self-rising flour but these are redundant. Flavor and quality is usually best with either yeast or acid-base leavening, not both.

All three of these processes (including double-acting but not single-acting baking powder) occur at a more rapid rate as temperature increases in the oven. This is called oven spring, describing the quick increase in overall size of a dough during initial baking.  Produced gases are being trapped by the glutinous network. 

If allowed to remain undisturbed (including no physical movement, lowering of temperature), the starches or carbohydrates deformed by the leavened gluten structures will gelatinize as they cook.  When this happens, the dough matrix will take a set and permanently hold its new shape.  If the ungelatizined starches are disturbed, the leavening gases may pass through the gluten network in part or whole.  This will allow the dough matrix to collapse, never to recover.  This is what happens when you slam the door and the cake in the oven collapses. Very simple, but not usually understood.

Once the starches on the exterior gelatinize and become dehydrated, they act as sugars and caramelize.    How brown your bread's crust is is a result of the process of caramelization.

More soon.

« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 01:31:20 PM by cliffrod »
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
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Offline bigbikerrick

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2020, 01:58:21 PM »
Man, You know your stuff, Cliffrod! I have enjoyed reading your information, it just makes me feel so dumb! I have already learned alot from you, and look forward to trying a simple pizza dough recipe, and may even try my hand at baking some bread. I messed around with a bread machine years ago, when they were in vogue,and never was able to produce anything decent, with it. I am looking forward to your instruction.   :popcorn:
Thank you
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2020, 02:11:07 PM »
Yep, we avoid carbs (except in beer)  :grin: but we've been talking about baking some bread during this enforced staycation. Carry on, sir..
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Online cliffrod

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2020, 03:12:57 PM »
Thanks, guys.  This is a very hands-on group so I hoped this would fit.  To me, the kitchen is just another workbench with tools and materials.  It's no different than working on my bike in the shop or on a stone in the studio.

I've been tweaking this as I've taught it for years. I've have been wanting to write an updated version down for a while.  This is a good chance to do that.  When I was learning, we scoffed at the culinary students.  After learning the hard way while working for so many years, teaching in culinary programs connected a lot of dots for me. 

Demystifying things helps a lot.  Too many are told what to do but never how or why it works.  Even if an instructor or chef knows the how, they often cannot communicate the why.  The 7 things enumerated (plus acid, base & acid-base reactions, which have a wide range of function and application) should help many here.  Do it the way I suggest or use the parts needed to know what is happening if you want to do it your way.  Dough is very personal and very situational. 

the majority of basics principles have been covered.  Next will begin recipe work.  I learned about this favorite recipe about a decade ago.  It is a simple process that isn't supposed to work.  It isn't "traditional" like how I learned, but it easily produces a dough with very good structure for specific uses.  Having a successful experience- knowing how a dough should feel and perform- inspires confidence to do more complicated recipes.  Nothing loses a budding baker faster than spending 36+ hrs on a batch of dough that fails. 

First I need to finish a stone quote and then cook supper or my wife will not be smiling....
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1981 Lemans CX100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExX3YmQel_Q
http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
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Offline malik

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2020, 04:08:36 PM »
Great stuff. Keep it up. Waiting with bated breath for the next instalment. Used to do all my own breads for decades, so much so that that I still can't bring myself to pay the asking prices for the (mostly) inferior products on offer these days. Only restricted the exercise as I developed the habit of finishing off the first loaf before it cooled - irresistible and kept having to buy bigger trousers. Perhaps I now have adequate self discipline to get back into it. I wouldn't put any money on that, though.
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Online PJPR01

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2020, 04:28:19 PM »
Made some banana bread 2 nights ago while cooking dinner.  My Mom and Grandma made banana bread for years, it's a family favorite.

Zucchini bread, banana bread, potato bread all wonderful fresh out of the oven! 

Great thread...will have to study the guidelines above a bit further...thanks!
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Offline Lannis

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2020, 06:17:16 PM »
Bread making has always been The Man's Job in my family .... my dad used to bake bread even though he cooked nothing else, and I've baked every loaf of bread that's been baked at my house.   I love doing it, but have been minimizing carbs lately, and fresh bread smells too good not to over-indulge!

My biggest problem is inconsistent flour quality (possibly among other problems).   There's a local old grist mill on Staunton River (Cedar Forest Mills) that mills and sells flour locally, but I can't get it to make ANY kind of bread, not even quick baking-powder-and-soda biscuits or pancakes.   I'd love to buy locally but not sure I can.   Maybe I'll bake a loaf with Gold Medal and a loaf with Cedar Forest and take them over the mill and show them my problem ....

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Online cliffrod

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2020, 06:27:50 PM »
Bread has several categories including Unleavened, leavened, lean rich/enriched, sourdough, Quick breads and more.   Methods are varied as well.  Some words and methods are analogous to each other.  The only difference is the word used.  There's also many recipes that claim to be applicable to multiple results.  As with other things, such things come with serious trade-offs.  As a professional, I don't find much use for such things.  This recipe featured next is no exception.  We will start with lean dough (no fat) leavened with yeast.

In late 2008, Mother Earth News featured a new book called Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes a Day.  https://artisanbreadinfive.com. The method uses a unique approach, to say the least. I was then teaching culinary part time around my full time studio schedule.  I tried it, found the method worked and decided to apply it as a means to teach students about proper dough qualities and ease of preparation. 

Most recipes require a time element that is challenging to schedule around a normal home life or non-dough kitchen.  Initial development may include making a starter, poolish, biga or using a scrap from a prior dough.  Hours later, the bulk of the dough is built.  One or more services of the dough, including the ferment (first rise) and degassing (pinched down) can extend making one batch to 18 to 36 hours before dough can be made up (formally shaped into loaves), proofed  (second rise) and baked as soon as proofing is achieved.  Real life makes this tough for most regular people.

Artisan Bread uses a recipe and method that's very simple.  I strongly encourage you to buy this book.  A few bucks is a small price to pay for knowing this method.  This is the recipe directly from the book-

3 cups lukewarm water
1 1/2 tablespoon granulated yeast (1 1/2 packets)
1 1/2 tablespoon kosher or other coarse salt
6 1/2 cups unsifted unbleached all purpose flour, measured with the scoop-and-sweep method.

The book has well-written instructions. After doing it for over a decade,  I'll give you mine. 

The flour is measured by the scoop and sweep method.   Using another spoon or utensil, gently scoop flour and transfer into a proper measuring cup.  Dry measuring cups have a flat/square top, allowing the contents to be scraped level for an accurate measurement.  A Pyrex measuring cup with spout won't easily provide an accurate dry measure.  Scooping the flour with the measuring cup compacts flour and will result in too much flour in your batch, sometimes as much as 1/2 cup for this 6 1/2 cup measurement. So scoop and sweep or your dough will not perform the same way.

I then add the measured yeast on one side of the flour and the salt on the other side.  Coarse salt is important to use.  Regular table salt is finer and thus more dense by volume.  It will work but requires a different measurement.  I then stir the dry ingredients. 

I add the water while stirring the dry ingredients until everything is wet or hydrated.  That's it.  No kneading.  No kidding. Try to get everything well incorporated and wet but some lumps aren't a problem.  They will cook out.  No kidding.

Set the container on the kitchen counter or table at room temp.  Depending upon how warm the water and room are, it will take anywhere from 1-2 hrs to several hours to ferment to twice the original volume.  Once it's approx doubled, degas the dough.  No need to "punch it down".  Just bump it on the countertop or gently stir it around the perimeter with a rubber spatula to let the trapped gasses vent from the dough.  Now it is ready to use (see below) or it can be placed in the fridge for up to 2 wks and used as you like.  No kidding.

When ready to use, remove the dough needed, make up (shape) as desired, allow to proof (increase in volume as desired) lame (relieve or slash) as needed and bake.

Here are a few details-

I have a dedicated container I use for my dough with straight sides and a square bottom that's about twice as big as my degassed dough mass or 3x bigger than my initial mix. It lives in the fridge and takes up the same space as a gallon of milk.  I stir and mix my dough with a 16"-18" piece of an old wooden dowel (actually a rake handle).

by ratio, this is a high moisture dough. That makes it very soft and fast to work when new but allows the dough to remain viable for an extended period of time.

When first built, the dough can be used as the end of the ferment (first rise) without the retarding process.  At that point, it's similar to using a traditional French baguette dough.  It's a really fast, wet dough at this point.  If you're good, you'll be fine.  If not, have fun...

The book suggests using this dough for all manners of lean and rich dough applications.  I strongly disagree.  It works fine for basic loaves and suitable for basic pizza dough.   

It makes a good gluten window (excellent lesson for other doughs), especially after retarding.

It provides the proper "feel" that any dough/bread baker need to understand.  Good dough is very sticky to handle but will break clean.  Touch the dough quickly and pull away quickly.  Your fingers should be mostly clean of dough.  Touch the same dough slowly and pull away slowly.  The dough will stick firmly to your fingers and make a mess.  Often a dough will be too wet (always sticky) or too dry (never sticky)

In fall 2013, I let a batch of dough linger in the fridge for well past the recommended 10 days.    It started to separate water from solid, changed color and looked, smelled & tasted like a sourdough starter.  So I used some of it as a poolish or scrap for the next batch.  It provided added sourdough flavor.  More importantly, it extended the life of baked product before it began to mold.  Old dough doesn't leaven as well, but flavor is great.  It's a great way to make rustic flavorful sourdough bread or bread for breadcrumbs & croutons.  I've perpetuated that sourdough scrap to,this day.  I never completely empty the container.  Keeping all utensils and my hands clean before handling any dough is very important but we've had no problems.  I leave a scrap,let it sour if it hasn't, add extra water to make a slurry before mixing the next batch and then make up the dough as regular.  All I do is compensate amounts vs the amount left in the container.  At this point, I maintain general ratios but measure  informally.  Salt and yeast are measured in my hand.  Flour is gently scooped and water is added as needed.


####

Time to bake and probably answer some questions. 


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Offline moto-uno

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2020, 06:42:01 PM »
  Making bread ( and pizza dough's for almost 40 years ) and here I am reading and thoroughly enjoying this article  :thumb: .  Peter

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2020, 06:45:19 PM »
Bread making has always been The Man's Job in my family .... my dad used to bake bread even though he cooked nothing else, and I've baked every loaf of bread that's been baked at my house.   I love doing it, but have been minimizing carbs lately, and fresh bread smells too good not to over-indulge!

My biggest problem is inconsistent flour quality (possibly among other problems).   There's a local old grist mill on Staunton River (Cedar Forest Mills) that mills and sells flour locally, but I can't get it to make ANY kind of bread, not even quick baking-powder-and-soda biscuits or pancakes.   I'd love to buy locally but not sure I can.   Maybe I'll bake a loaf with Gold Medal and a loaf with Cedar Forest and take them over the mill and show them my problem ....

Lannis

quick guesses would be the inconsistency of wheat as mentioned- winter wheat tends to be hard or high protein and summer wheat tends to be soft or low protein.  If they don't have dedicated sources of known wheat, there's no telling what will happen.

Excess milling temperatures can damage the proteins and the carbohydrates in the flour.  The flour is then essentially pre-cooked and will never perform well.  Most important, Gluten structures cannot form because the proteins responsible for gluten formation may already be coagulated/cooked in whole or part.  Protein begins to coagulate around 144f and small bits need little heat to cook.   Any Coagulated proteins may also be ground by further milling up after this happens.  No good.

High moisture content can also be a problem, raising temps of stored flour much like putting up hay too wet can cause enough heat for spontaneous combustion.  The milled flour decomposes, which limits future potential.

One of the most common problems with artisan flour like this is that is is a whole wheat flour.  It has not been hulled or decorticated, so the bran shell is ground up with the rest of the berry.  Even if it is white, whole wheat flour needs a supplement of regular flour or there will be little gluten potential.  Whole wheat flour also hydrates very differently than regular flour. 
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Offline Scout63

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2020, 07:19:50 PM »
Extremely interesting information Clifford.  I was a line cook for years but learned early on that bakers are a completely different breed.
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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2020, 07:36:18 PM »
I too use a bread machine but today it was doughnuts.



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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2020, 08:34:16 PM »
Forming (make up) and baking bread is flexible in some ways and inflexible in others.  It's kind of like welding or learning to ride.  No book and no one can do it for you.  You just have to do it yourself.  So relax and have fun.

For my family of three, I make my dough in a larger batch. Approx 9 cups flour (5 cups bread, 4 cups AP), 2 heavy T yeast, 2 light T kosher salt and water as needed) makes about two large medium thick crust pizzas and one loaf of bread with a small scrap left over.  We usually make two pizzas at the same time once a week.    Very informal.

People new to making up loaves like baguettes or boules may want to begin by using a simple loaf pan.  Crust will be diferent and bread very moist, but it's still great bread.  Or you can just roughly shape a roundish looking loaf, place it on a sheet pan and fire it like that.

I clean and dry the counter or table to work the dough.  Trying to stay on a small board is a huge pain.  use plain cornmeal to help keep dough from sticking to the counter while making up a loaf or pizza crust.  You can buy fancy coarse cornmeal, grits, masa or whatever.  Ground up dried corn is ground up dried corn.... The more coarse it is, the more slowly it hydrates.  It will stick to the wet dough, but not transfer moisture to make it stick to the counter or table.  I'm cheap, so we usually just have plain cornmeal.

A bench knife or scraper isn't essential, but it helps a lot.

Any very sharp knife will lame, relieve or slash the proofed dough.  I've had dedicated razors but have used a plain razor sharp carbon steel opinel folding knife for years.

There's two things about making up a form that are important

1. The more a dough is worked, the more elastic the gluten becomes. At this point, the dough will spring back when stretched.   Time to stop for a minute or few and let the dough rest.  When the gluten structures have relaxed, the dough will once agin be easily stretched.  Proceed and repeat as needed.

2. It's important to not tear the dough.  Tearing the dough defeats the gluten structure. The exterior of the dough should be slowly stretched without tearing to form a gluten cloak.  If the gluten cloak tears, the interior dough will bulge through the tear like a hernia as the bakes.  Not cool.  If the interior tears, the gluten structures cannot trap leavening gases and the dough will not proof or bake properly,  not cool.

Work quickly and confidently but Be gentle.  Don't tear the dough.

There are a wide variety of washes or methods to develop a specific kind of crust.   An egg wash will make a shiny crust.  A boiled wash (like bagels) both excites the yeast and creates a wet starch surface which also,produces a shiny surface.  A simple spray of water makes a more dull crust. Steam introduced into,the oven makes the most dull crust of washes,,but creates a more definitive crust than no wash at all.  I have a small cast iron skillet in. The bottom of my oven.  When i put the bread into the hot oven, I toss 2-3 ice cubes into this pan. And quickly close the door.   Simple and easy instant steam.  The idea is to provide a wet crust that will quickly caramelize. 

Stones or tiles that are hot and in the oven work properly.  A cold stone is a waste of time because it won't quickly produce a bottom crust.  The dough will stick like crazy unless it's peeled onto a hot stone.  It's fun but messy to shovel/slip dough from a cornmeal covered peel onto the hot stone in a regular oven.

Now I usually use a sheet pan with/without a silicone mat that's broadcast with cornmeal.  Place made up dough on here to proof,,then relive and fire when ready.   I have perforated pimple pans, but rarely use them.  I have traditional willow bratforms (sp?) that I like a lot when making round loaves. Lots of options.

For a baguette, the oven is usually set around 375 convection or 425 conventional.  Pizza is slightly hotter, usually around 380-385 connection.  I cook pizza on carbon steel pizza pans.    I like them best. 

No matter what I use, I never cut bread or pizza on the cooking pan.  It's a waste of the pan.

###


To make up a loaf, l broadcast some cornmeal on the counter.  A portion of dough is divided.  Whether I want a long loaf or a round loaf! I will carefully stretch and press the loaf into shape- both without tearing the gluten cloak and while pressing any seam(s) firmly together so it will not unfurl during baking.  Some use the heel of their hand.  Some use the side of their hand.  I learned to develop the dough into a roughly even rectangular form, then tightly roll it into a cylinder while developing the gluten cloak as I proceeded.  Then I firmly seam the dough before placing the seam on the bottom.  The dough doesn't know or care.  Don't worry about perfect form yet.  Just don't tear it and seam it well.

I place the made up dough on a pan and set aside to proof.  This is more critical than the initial ferment.  When fermenting this recipe, I just make sure it has at least doubled. Beyond that, it's ok. Proofing is different.  Once the made up dough does not vigorously spring back when pressed, it is time to slash or relieve it.

Relieving or slashing the dough allows it to expand as it bakes.  This is important to avoid a rupture as the gluten cloak hardens and is susceptible to cracking, especially during oven spring. When slashing a loaf, overlapping the slashes allows for greater expansion.  If a dough is slashed before it proofs, the slashes will have dull edges and a flattened appearance when baked. If a dough is slashed after it proofs, the cooked slashes will be much more distinct in character.  I like the latter, but it make no difference other than cosmetic.

I place the proofed, relieved loaf or loaves in the oven without jostling them (which may deflate them), toss in a couple of ice cubes and close the door.    Loaves may take 45 min to bake.  I don't really time things anymore.  When it's done, I take it out.  You'll learn if you do it enough, but a timer is a fine as a reference point.

Just understand that if a loaf is removed from the oven when it looks perfect, it is NOT done.  Moisture remaining in the loaf will continue to steam to escape through this beautiful crust.  In the process, it will both soften and lighten the crust.   The loaf will be soft,maybe even limp.  If that's your goal,  that's how to achieve it.

Properly cooked, a baguette, batard, or boules will take on a slightly ashen color and look a little darker than desired. Time to pull the loaf from the oven.  The residual steam I mentioned will now slightly soften that hard crust and lighten the color.  More importantly, the loaf will begin to snap, crackle and sing as the steam acts upon this perfect crust.  That is success. Btw, an egg washed crust will not sing. It makes a shinier and more elastic/tough surface, but it won't sing.  I want my bread to sing.

I could be anal, scale all my ingredients and dough divisions, make up perfectly even loaves and time a bake exactly in a perfect temp oven to do this every time, but I don't.  Singing bread is a wonderful goal to pursue.  I can usually do it.  Yeast dough is alive and varies with so many daily specifics.  Get to know your dough and your equipment. Practice and practice. It's not too hard to do it. Just try it.


####

Pizza crust-

Same dough.  Nothing special.

My wife uses a rolling pin to go pizza dough.  I don't. Either is fine.  She rolls and stretches on the counter.  When the dough is fresh and not shaggy from going sour, I usually throw the dough. soured dough will be more fragile.

Cornmeal is broadcast (not sprinkled) evenly on counter and pan.  Stretch the dough to shape, allowing dough to rest as needed to avoid tearing.  Working in a radiating pattern from center helps, too.  I will usually finish the dough into shape by gravity (hanging dough over a closed fist) and/or  by throwing.  Throwing is fun but sprays loose cornmeal around the kitchen....

Focaccia or flatbread or crazy bread is similarly stretched to desired shape.  It is then docked with fingertips.  The goal is to laminate to top gluten cloak to,the bottom gluten cloak without perforating the dough with your fingertips.  This limits leavening to help keep the dough flat.  A made up pizza dough can be docked, but usually is not necessary.  Having sauce, cheese and ?? on top lowers the rate of cooking so,steam leavening of the dough is less of a problem. 

Depending upon your pan and the amount of cornmeal used, your pizza will stick very little or not at all.  Keep adjusting your method.


###

This specific dough works well for me for simple crusty loaves and basic pizza dough.  It's a great way for new people to become acquainted with a very accommodating dough.  After working with it, more complicated doughs are usually within reach.  Modifying this dough to pretend it's a diferent dough is not worth the effort IMHO.  Learn this to,become familiar with a good basic dough, then make the real thing forthe next one.

Let me know what does and doesn't make sense.  I'll try to answer and guide you through the steps if you decide to try any of this.  Beyond that, I glad to discuss laminated dough (puff pastry and croissants) unleavened dough for pasta/noodles & flatbreads like pita, lavash and tortilla, southern biscuits and other things if anyone likes.
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1981 Lemans CX100
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Offline ozarquebus

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2020, 09:02:48 PM »
This is great! cliffrod. All the straight facts without bs.
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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2020, 09:09:46 PM »
Once you ween yourself off of carbs and sugar you rarely think about it. Just a handle for a sandwich  :wink:
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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2020, 09:53:59 PM »
I like it.  My wife is the bread queen and she has been exercising her skills lately.  Way better than store bought, though it doesn't last as long (that's a good thing).

One slight correction, Cliffrod- yeast aren't respiring- that implies using oxygen for metabolism.  They are fermenting- using sugars without oxygen, then replenishing the metabolic intermediates by converting pyruvate into ethanol and CO2.  Humans do something along these lines, but we make lactic acid instead of ethanol.  The advantage there is that we (humans) can convert lactate back into pyruvate when we catch our breath...and then use the pyruvate for some serious energy production in the citric acid cycle.

Cheers- this is a fun thread-
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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2020, 08:06:18 AM »
I like it.  My wife is the bread queen and she has been exercising her skills lately.  Way better than store bought, though it doesn't last as long (that's a good thing).

One slight correction, Cliffrod- yeast aren't respiring- that implies using oxygen for metabolism.  They are fermenting- using sugars without oxygen, then replenishing the metabolic intermediates by converting pyruvate into ethanol and CO2.  Humans do something along these lines, but we make lactic acid instead of ethanol.  The advantage there is that we (humans) can convert lactate back into pyruvate when we catch our breath...and then use the pyruvate for some serious energy production in the citric acid cycle.

Cheers- this is a fun thread-

You are correct. I usually use the term metabolize, but went off track.  I'll go back and edit so content will be more accurate.

The term "Fermenting" always seems to lead some to the alcohol tangent, getting drunk, etc.  focusing upon the alcohol or flora-fauna details get things off track quickly.

It should also be added that yeast keeps performing until the level of ethanol becomes toxic- typically not as common in dough but technically possible.  It's much like explaining the alcohol provides some nominal leavening. Technically it does, but is minor.  Students that don't drink are often worried about the alcohol, don't want their kids getting drunk from their bread, are you sure it "goes away", etc.  Combined with excess heat and excess salt, this is the third condition that ends the life cycle of yeast.

Thank you to those interested.   This subject is a lot to organize and process.  I strive to put it all out there within a basic process and then move into discussion. 

I had a hard time believing this no knead, high moisture dough would be any more "real" than the typical ziploc bag Amish friendship bread that sits on the kitchen counter for days. That's more of a quick bread method.  Proper dough- from a Fresca dough (flour and water, salt or not) to a rich yeast dough (like brioche) needed traditional kneading to evenly incorporate all flour and develop a consistent gluten structure. Nothing else would work. Ive done little with home/consumer bread machines, just as a personal preference for more professional methods.

With traditional kneaded dough, Gluten structure will be checked by making a gluten window. A small portion, like 1" diameter ball, is removed from the dough.  It's shaped between fingers/hands like a small pizza dough and progressively thinned until failure.  When gluten is good, it will thin consistently and evenly, moving past transparency until it fails. It's like a mini version of the phyllo dough process.  The gluten window is held up to a light source to evaluate.  Lumps mean unincorporated or inadequately mixed flour.  Long streaks of uneven thickness mean inadequately developed gluten.  A break or shear with a square edge means dough is too cold, too dry or both.  Gluten Windows work best with clear dough, as any lumpy solid ingredients compromise the process.  No matter, this is a quick way to evaluate a batch.

So I made a batch of the no knead dough and was surprised to find the dough did come together amazingly well without a traditional knead.  An ok gluten window could be formed when new, but was fragile like any high moisture ratio dough.  After retarded, the gluten window is much improved- both in terms of mix/incorporation and gluten structure.  The dough progressively changes from great when fresh to more poor (in terms of gluten) as it ages, but that's typical with any long ferment that increases acid percentage in the dough.  When it baked well, I decided it was a new tool for me.  While large lumps of raw flour may survive the baking process, Small lumps do actually disappear during the bake.

Knowing how a proper lean dough should feel is why this dough is a good tool.  Some are legalistic about how long a dough must be kneaded.  Many people don't or can't do that.  If they are going to knead, they must understand how to evaluate the dough with something like a gluten window.  This artisan bread in 5 provides that instruction, plus gives flexibility so a dough doesn't have to be made up, proofed and fired at 11:00pm because it's ready and you hadn't thought backwards in terms of production schedule.  I like having dough available to use when I feel like it.
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Offline 80CX100

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2020, 09:18:06 AM »
Cliffrod,  Tks so much for taking the time to share your expertise, this is an amazing thread.

     I'm a good cook, purely by instinct; but I've only dabbled in baking a few times. I learned early on that baking and doughs were a much more exact, somewhat unforgiving science, your post and information confirms it.

     Like many others, I gave up whites (flour,sugars,salt,starches) years ago and am not set up for or inclined to delve into baking bread, but I recently weakened and bought some flour and baking powder so I could satisfy a longing for savory/spiced dumplings. :evil:

     I make my dumplings by feel, guided primarily by the ingredients I have on hand, each batch is a little different, as you can well imagine with your obvious knowledge of the science and chemistry involved.

     A part of me, would almost like to take my dumplings up a level in quality and consistency, with a more standardized recipe and method; I get the impression you're the guy that possesses the knowledge and skill that could possibly make that happen,lol.  :bow:

    Bread making is a wide and varied topic, I'm sure that the lucky baker guys here, could keep you going forever, lapping up your guidance and popping crusty loaves out onto the counter, I wish I could join you all in baking and breaking bread, but it's not in my cards.

    If you get to a point, that all the bread makers thirst for knowledge is satiated, and you have time and inclination to pass on a little guidance and wisdom on a good basic dumpling recipe and method, I would be forever indebted.

    Following with great interest and respect

    Tks

     Kelly
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 08:20:06 PM by 80CX100 »
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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2020, 10:19:35 AM »
Cliffrod,  Tks so much for taking the time to share your expertise, this is an amazing thread.

     I'm a good cook, purely by instinct; but I've only dabbled in baking a few times. I learned early on that baking and doughs were a much more exact, somewhat unforgiving science, your post and information confirms it.

     Like many others, I gave up whites (flour,sugars,salt,starches) years ago and am not set up for or inclined to delve into baking bread, but I recently weakened and bought some flour and baking powder to I could satisfy a longing for savory/spiced dumplings. :evil:

     I make my dumplings by feel, guided primarily by the ingredients I have on hand, each batch is a little different, as you can well imagine with your obvious knowledge of the science and chemistry involved.

     A part of me, would almost like to take my dumplings up a level in quality and consistency, with a more standardized recipe and method; I get the impression you're the guy that possesses the knowledge and skill that could possibly make that happen,lol.  :bow:

    Bread making is a wide and varied topic, I'm sure that the lucky baker guys here, could keep you going forever, lapping up your guidance and popping crusty loaves out onto the counter, I wish I could join you all in baking and breaking bread, but it's not my cards.

    If you get to a point, that all the bread makers thirst for knowledge is satiated, and you have time and inclination to pass on a little guidance and wisdom on a good basic dumpling recipe and method, I would be forever indebted.

    Following with great interest and respect

    Tks

     Kelly

I realize this is more of a Jack Kerouac stream of consciousness ramble than an organized lesson.  But writing all of this on a long roll of paper instead of here would seem decadent at the present time..   Dough is different than typical pastry bake shop work.  It allows more freedom. 

Biscuits and how I do dumplings are coming.   My culinary apprenticeship was done at a private city club.  Long story short, I was hired to be the white guy in an older Southern kitchen. Among other tasks, I tried biscuits and failed gallantly every time.  The older black ladies in the kitchen never let such things pass without fanfare and abuse.  Over the years, I worked hard to become fluent with biscuits and usually make them for breakfast about once a week.  Dumplings are more of a monthly thing, based upon weather comditions that best compliment the comfort food experience.

It's always good to shorten that path for others. Having already written the majority of theory and basic protocol into the thread, future additions can hopefully be more concise. 
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Offline MMRanch

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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2020, 12:09:06 PM »
Wow cliffrod

I've been to school today !!!

Still don't think I could bake bread but my pancakes will be better now that I know what the oil in the batter is for and know to let the batter sit for a while and rise a little.

So is it going to help glucose intolerant folks if they just chew their food better ?  :undecided:
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Re: Bread Thread
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2020, 08:09:10 PM »
    If you get to a point, that all the bread makers thirst for knowledge is satiated, and you have time and inclination to pass on a little guidance and wisdom on a good basic dumpling recipe and method, I would be forever indebted.

Because Kelly asked, biscuits and dumplings are next.  In the USA kitchen, Biscuits and dumplings are a product of the same heavily shortened dough.  Difference in cooking method separates them.  Within the USA, more differences exist in recipes and production methods.  Below is what I normally do. 

A quick note about my flour storage.  In a commercial kitchen, baking powder is often ordered in 10lb tins.  If not rusted or damaged, they make excellent containers for storing a full 5lb bag of flour for home use.  No bugs.  Smaller 5 lb tins are also common, but they won't hold a full bag of flour.  Empty Fleischmans or similar 10lb tins cost about $10-$15 used on eBay and elsewhere.  All but one of mine came from my various kitchens.  I've glued labels from the appropriate flour bags to each for easy identification, with a measuring cup in each and a paint key hanging on the shelf to open the lid.  The SR flour also has a spoon for scooping flour and the two biscuit cutters I use most. It works great for me..





The ingredients-

Leavening.  Leavening is usually achieved by acid-base reaction (most often, baking powder) and steam.  Because acid base leavening is limited by the amount of acid and base present, different considerations are necessary.  Within proper conditions, a single living yeast organism continues to metabolize present sugar and produce leavening gas.  By contrast, once an individual acid-base reaction (as with baking powder) occurs, it is finished.  That reaction creates a finite amount of gas to leaven.  Adding excess acid-base to the dough produces excess salt byproduct, which is undesireable.  Yeast is a leavening powerhouse.  Baking powder, not so much.

Flour.  Because yeast is atypical in biscuits, using flour with moderate gluten potential is beneficial to compensate for the weaker leavening characteristics of baking powder. AP flour works well.  Self Rising flour is AP flour, sometimes with a protein percentage at the lower range of typical AP flour,  premixed with double acting baking powder. You surrender a little control when using SR flour, but it may not be an issue.  The bigger concern is to use SR flour quickly enough that it does not absorb ambient moisture, which initiates the first acid-base reaction and limits future leavening potential.  You can mix your own SR flour by adding baking powder to AP flour.  Protein percentage can be reduced by adding the proper amount of low protein pastry flour.  If you do, use an accurate scale to scale all measurements when possible.  Too little baking powder will limit performance.  Too much tastes bad.  I'm lazy, so I just use SR flour.

Fat.  Since any fat is a shortening because it shortens gluten strands and tenderizes the product, adding fat to the dough further enhances the leavening of biscuit dough.  Traditional recipes use a fat that is solid.  A solid fat can be cut into flour and remain solid, even if in smaller pieces.  In this manner, both flour and Fat retain some amount of autonomy.  Remember- when cooked with heat, fats melt, starches gelatinize and sugars caramelize.  A fat that is soft or liquid will interact differently.  It will more readily surround and/or saturate  each individual granule of milled wheat (or sugar, if used) and must be melted away before the captured granule can be individually cooked.   Rendered lard, manufactured shortening, butter and other solid fats are common in biscuits.  Some have added benefit over others.  Butter is approx 70% fat, 20%-25% water and the balance are solids.  Margarine is usually slightly more water, so it is more spreadable. Thus, using butter or margarine added water to the dough. If captured within chilled fat solids, it provides excellent additional leavening potential. 

The key is to not melt the solid fat while working the dough.  I prefer to use chilled fat for an extra margin of safety so the cut fat will remain solid until it is in the oven.  The goal is to make a lot of small pieces of fat that are coated in flour, not to cover each flour granule in the dough with fat.

Liquid.  Buttermilk is common and my preferred liquid.  It isn't necessary but it works very well.  A variety of liquids can be used, from water acidulated with vinegar or lemon juice to fresh or flat beer.  Unless using baking SODA as a single stage leavening agent, the acid content of the liquid is not critical for baking powder.  Baking powder is formulated with dehydrated acid in proper ratio to the base in formula.  Once hydrated, the acid-base reactions occurs completely as long as enough water is present in solution.   

Another reason buttermilk is used is often overlooked.  As long as it is not fat free, it to adds fat to the dough.  This further shortens the dough to benefit the leavening. This is good....

Utensils.   For cutting the fat into the flour, a bent wire or bladed pastry cutter, a whisk (choke the wires with hand and used in a vertical mashing motion) a fork or whatever you prefer can be used.  I use a square grid potato masher, because when I was practicing most was after wife #2 left and that's what I had.  Other times, I prefer my whisk or even a table fork over a floppy pastry cutter.  Using a proper biscuit cutter that cuts the sides of the biscuit helps with oven spring. Using a glass or dull cutter both crimps the sides, top to bottom, and can compress the dough with air pressure.  A smooth sided biscuit cutter is my preference.  when needed, a knife works fine.

Recipes vary.  I spent my time working to master the biscuit recipe on a bag of White Lily flour.

2 cups SR flour, sifted
1/4 cup shortening or butter
2/3 - 3/4 cup milk or buttermilk





Because we keep it on hand, I normally use SmartChoice margarine as my fat.  It is not as hard as butter and cuts quickly into flour, which limits melting.

Follow,the directions on the label and consider what I do.

I scoop flour into my measuring cup, usually 2 cups.  Dump this into the mixing bowl and then scoop approx 1/3 cup back out with the measuring cup.  Then I will add approx 1/3-1/2 cup margarine to,the bowl. I will quickly cut this into the flour.  The goal is to reduce all fat solids to pieces the size of a pea or smaller.  Lots of little flour-covered pieces of fat.  Then I'll add buttermilk while stirring with a table fork  to wet all ingredients, but not enough buttermilk to leave wet liquid buttermilk in the bowl.  The bowl will be slightly wet and sticky ,but will all be incorporated.

Quantities are important in a recipe.  For something as informal as biscuit dough, ratios are more relevant than accurately measured or perfectly scaled quantities..

I withheld a little flour.  This flour will be broadcast onto the cutting board for kneading.  When I'm done, it will all be incorporated into the dough.  No more.  No less.  If more flour is added, ratios will be off.

I added a little extra margarine beyond the recommended 1/4 cup.  Given known percentages of present fat, 1/4 cup of shortening or lard is 100% fat. 1/4 cup of butter is only 70% fat.  Margarine has even less fat.  So I add a little extra margarine and just enough buttermilk to wet all ingredients present.  Then I work the reserved flour into the dough on the board to mitigate the wet dough.  If I only added 1/4 cup margarine, there would not be enough fat in the dough to achieve the desired ratios..

This last step with raw flour does one more thing.  Since this flour has not been cut with the fat, it has greater gluten potential.  Biscuits are meant to be soft and tender, but can suffer from being too tender.  Try to make a sandwich with one and it falls apart with the first bite- that isn't good.  Working this extra flour into the dough with a few turns sees to help develop some gluten that helps the biscuits work better for such sandwiches.  Problem solved.

Kneading biscuit dough is often the problem.  The more you knead, the more the gluten structure is developed.  Then it can't be leavened and they come out of the oven as hockey pucks.   Not cool. You only need to turn the dough back upon & into itself a few times- like the 2-4 times listed on the label.  The dough will be delicate and fragile to handle.  That's fine.  Time to stop and cut the biscuits..

I press the dough to desired thickness and cut biscuits as desired.  I dip my clean cutter into flour before each cut.  If it gets dirty with dough, I clean it with a dry towel before proceeding.  This recipe will make 6-8 large biscuit from 3/4"-1" thick dough, with the last two being made up from the scraps GENTLY kneaded back together.  One is cut.  The last one is just formed by hand.  My cutter isn't as big as I want, so I will gently press the biscuits thinner to make them larger in diameter.  Then I dust them with some flour (cosmetic) and place them into a 500F oven until they're done. 

the hot oven is important,  it produces the fastest and most powerful leavening action.  I want this chilled fat with incorporated water to transition to steam quickly, not melt slowly.  It needs to be at full temp and ready so the biscuits can be fired immediately when made up.  Waiting on the oven defeats leavening.

When finished baking, I remove and place a small curl of margarine or butter on top of each biscuits.  This benefits  mouthfeel and flavor, which is obvious.  Functionally, the thin layer of added fat significantly limits evaporation of moisture within the cooked biscuit both as it cools and afterwards. This significantly extends the usable life of the product.  Without that protective layer, biscuits quickly dry out and turn into junk.

####

Dumplings. 

I use the same basic recipe for biscuits and dumplings.  I prepare the rest of the recipe first.  Usually carrots, celery, onions, potatoes, fresh stock (I make all my own) pork or chicken, salt,pepper, fresh bay leaves in a large oven proof pot (usually cast iron)   No real recipe, just clean out the fridge. All will be cooked on stovetop as desired and be at full temp before adding dumplings and placing into the oven 

We like a thicker stew quality to the finished broth.  Instead of adding a buerre manie, roux or cornstarch, I add regular corn meal or grits near the end of the stove top cook.  How much depends upon how thick you like the finished broth.  We like the flavor and mouthfeel.  Cornmeal is good but Grits are hard to beat.  Stir it slowly into the simmering stock as normal to eliminate lumps and proceed.

Variations for the biscuit dough include adding some fresh herbs from the garden and Parmesan cheese (our daughter's favorite)  to the dough.   The same process of cutting the fat, buttermilk, etc is done.  Since I spoon the dough directly into the hit simmering liquid with two spoons, I don't reserve anything.  Mixing in bowl replaces kneading. Dumplings are great practice if your biscuits aren't great.

Make sure to leave enough room for leavening so the pot in the oven (around 350f) doesn't overflow and make a mess.  I usually bake my dumplings with a sheet pan under the pot. 

Having the liquid boiling hot when dumplings are spooned into it will help quickly cook the lower half as the upper portion is cooked mostly by the radiant heat within the oven.

####

Biscuits are about quick make-up. Don't overwork them.  Have oven up to full temp before starting on dough.   Cut chilled fat into measured flour to produce many small, flour coated lumps of solid fat. Limited mixing beyond evenly mixing the ingredients.  Far less effort is used to knead this dough.  Add buttermilk to consistency.  Work in reserved flour while kneading.  Cut biscuits. Bake. Brush or add butter pat of each when removed from oven.

Dumplings are similar.  Have everything else cooked and ready. Have oven up,to,temp.  Make up Dough as desired.  Spoon dumpling divisions into hot liquid, then bake in 350 oven.  Enjoy.

As you understand the various specifics at play, tweaks to boost leavening, develop a little more gluten and limit evaporation are just simple logic.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 08:25:17 PM by cliffrod »
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