G*&%!DMN frame is bent!

[LesP]

I string lined my frame minutes ago (and yes I could have used laser)

Right hand side of the rear loop tab (not centre) to the tube centre/center behind the steering head was on centre the length of the top tube.
On centre to the rear tab was off centre to the spine.

Down the sides of the rear loop went within microns at the front crash bars both sides.

From the centre of the spine at the front to the two tabs side of the loop there was a 10 mm + difference to the ends of the gussets spine to cross tube as the string passed them.

Unless you find impact I suggest there be nothing wrong with your frame.

My bike stood fine by it self on its rims on that flat table.
The wheels were checked to be in line and the bars/triple clamp measured to the back were within cooee.

[amamet]

With a tape measure hooked on the steering stem bolt, I got @39 3/4” to the center of the right shock bolt and @40 1/8” to the left shock mount.   That’s pretty significant over that distance.

[LesP]

Laser the side of the rims and see if the steering is cocked to one side when inline.
One good thing about a shaft drive bike is rear wheel lineament is out of your hands so it will be go, no go at the front.

[amamet]

If it were minor I’d let it be. It’s not minor. I don’t even need to squint to see it

[SIR REAL ED]

Fluorescent bulbs are useful for checking true. Sidecar guys commonly use them for alignment.

Rich A

Do you mean using them as a straight edge?

[Turin]

Don't even need the laser. Looks bent as hell. Any cracks or welds on the right side?

[Rich A]

Do you mean using them as a straight edge?

Yes.

[amamet]

Haven’t spotted any crack or welds. The spine is bent to the right, right at the gusset. I believe it’s only the top loop bent to the right. Everything looks parallel and perpendicular  underneath

[John A]

It’s probly just fine and within factory tolerance but you’ll never be happy with it.  Get a different frame, weather it’s Brads generous offer or one off fleabay, then it won’t bug you as you put time and money into it.  As you roll down the road, you’ll be smiling

[SIR REAL ED]

It’s probly just fine and within factory tolerance but you’ll never be happy with it.  Get a different frame, weather it’s Brads generous offer or one off fleabay, then it won’t bug you as you put time and money into it.  As you roll down the road, you’ll be smiling

Excellent advice.  We bought these things to make them better, didn't we?

[azguzzirep]

Take the frame to a professional shop.
Let them determine if it is bent, or not.
Probably cost ya $25.

[amamet]

Seriously? Let a shop tell me if it’s bent or not?  Do you know something I don’t?  Have I gone blind and haven’t realized it?  I was venting cause the frame is bent. It was unexpected. All good. Trying to get a replacement  from some great people here that are extremely helpful.   Reminds me of the time I was doing fx on commercial last year and the haze machine was burning everyone’s eyes including the director.  The fx house that rented  me the machine and was in a different borough said maybe it was psychosomatic and it was probably fine.   I could have beaten him over the head with that machine.

[dxhall]

Having a real shop check is a good idea.

One of my friends runs a body shop that has a state of the art auto frame machine.  It has attachments that allow it to measure motorcycle frames.  He tells me that many frames are out of alignment as they come from the factory.  Racers commonly bring him new bikes to have them checked and realigned.

He says that it’s usually no big deal to bend the frame back into alignment.

[amamet]

Having a real shop straighten it is a good idea, except nows not the time unfortunately and there aren’t any good shops like that near me. It’s bent and I’ll have to deal with it till a replacement works out. Going to step back from that bike and concentrate on finishing the lemans

[moto-uno]

 Possibly this can put your mind at ease , some experiences in frame construction and just how bad is bad ?
 There were no jigs , just some sliding wood clamps and "U" bolts and a magnetic angle meter . The wheels
 were within 2 degrees of each other (in the vertical plane), the wheel alignment was almost a full inch off. Rear
 wheel to the right of the front wheel when sitting on bike. The tabs I'd made for the swingarm pivot bolts
 were accidentally welded on the wrong rear down tube by me ( not enough sleep) and this caused the rear wheel
 to be not parallel with the front ( not just off to the right ) . A piece of aluminum angle was held against the
 right hand side of the rear wheel and it actually extended to the left hand side of the front wheel  . OMG ,what
 now ? I rode that motorcycle all over B.C with my wife for 4 years . What I couldn't do was release both hands from
 the bars at once . I made offset pivot pins to improve the wheel alignment so they were almost parallel , it improved
 the handling somewhat , but not a night and day thing . This project made an absolute mockery of my understandings
 concerning the disastrous handling  any frame misalignment would cause .
  I know this has set the bar awfully low , but it was fun to ride and never felt particularly bad or  unsafe .
  My extended way of saying "don't sweat the small stuff"  Peter
 

[Groover]

DXhall, where if your friend's shop located?

[dxhall]

My friend’s shop is in a suburb of Denver.

[Moparnut72]

I would tackle it myself. Careful measurement, a come along, something solid to attach it to, truck, trees etc. You are looking at replacing it, what have you got to lose.
I crewed years ago for a friend with a dirt track car, a Chevelle. On our next to last race of the season he got hit pretty hard in the rear. The frame was buckled with one side shorter than the other. We didn't want to spend much time on it as it was going to be retired and we didn't have much time before the next race anyway. We laid the car on its side, cut the amount out of the longer frame rail to make them equal and welded it all back up. He said it handled better than ever.

[Turin]

How did it ride? If it's not dangerous, then I'd ride her as is until extra funds become available.
If your going to replace the frame, then you may as well powder coat it, clean the motor, replace all the bearings, Check/replace the wiring harness etc.

Nothing looks worse that a freshly powder coated frame, with old tins.

Take your time with the frame hunt, unless the bike is dangerous or you just dont trust it.

[reidy]

Here is my opinion that you did not ask for. Everyone else is having a go so I may as well join in.

The frame sounds like it is definitely bent so I am not questioning that. The thing is just about any frame from that era will be bent to some degree. I have had a frame straightened and talked to a few people who do it, and that was their professional opinion. The other thing is you can spend a lot of money to get a frame perfectly straight and it will flex in use. All frames do and that is why there are tolerances on frames. You only need to get it in tolerance.

The thing is the replacement frame you find will probably be straighter then yours, but will it be in tolerance. If you get your frame straightened professionally you can be confident that your frame is straight.

It is my understanding that there are only a few critical points on a frame. The way I have seen them done is to mount the frame in a jig through the steering head. The swing arm pivot then is checked that it is parallel to the ground and 90 degrees to the plane of the steering head. The upper shock mounts are not as critical as you may think. If one is slightly forward then the other the shock angle changes by a small amount changing the effective spring rate. Your spring will vary by a little bit so no real change.

I know money is tight but for me the frame is the foundation of the bike. If you can be confident you are starting with a very good foundation the rest of the bike can be built from there.

Steve         

[Tom H]

FWIW: My Eldo is the bike I have ridden most of my life. I think that it has had this issue since I bought it 40 years ago. On a straight flat road, if you let go of the bars, it WILL turn right instantly. Never thought that was odd until I got my Ambo running well. Let go of the bars and it goes straight.

When I tore it down for a complete go over, I measured, I used a level, I etc.......... I could not find why it does this. The tires wear evenly, it handles MY riding style just fine (not racing) and I will continue to ride it as is.

I will say this, if your picture is showing it correctly, the seat loop does look off to the right just a tad, about where the main center tube connects to the cross bar. If the rest is straight I wouldn't worry too much about it. If it really bothers you, take it to a frame shop or try to straighten it yourself.

Good luck,
Tom

[moto-uno]

  I'm noticing that quite a few replies have reconfirmed that small variations are of no real consequence "on the road"    .  Peter

[amamet]

The bent is in the red circle. I’ll either fix it or find another. I’ll get to it later as I need to finish my Lemans

[LesP]

That picture makes it look all at the rear cross tube and loop taking part of the top tube ( in front of the gussets) with it... the tubed dropping down to the lower rails are probably just tweaked and might spring back.

Not ideal but would probably still go down the road fine wheels in line wise.
That would be a fairly easy (compared to the steering head and frontal down tubes bent) repair with a heavy table.

[SIR REAL ED]

The bent is in the red circle. I’ll either fix it or find another. I’ll get to it later as I need to finish my Lemans

Use an I-beam as a strong back, chain both end to the frame and use a small scissors jack or hydraulic jack to bend it back.  Or put it under a pickup truck with the jack against the truck frame and the bend in your frame.

Or if you know someone who has a decent sized bulldozer or back hoe, lay the frame on a sheet of plywood, put a wood block on the bend and let them push down of the block with the blade of the dozer or the bucket of the backhoe.

This ain't rocket science!  Beer and someone videoing the process will ensure everything goes well.

[larrys]

Are there dimensioned drawings for loop frames available? Some great shade tree methods here to bend it back but not much good if you don't know what the numbers are. There's a guy near me that buys wrecks, repos, and theft recoveries. He has a frame jig. My Cal was a wreck that I bought from him. Didn't need any frame straightening, though.
Larry

[cliffrod]

Skip the shade tree and go right to a competitor's contemporary FSM-





















These pics are more about fixing front end bits, but is a common theme throughout many HD manuals. Just fix it.

Seriously, before I spent money (which is normally how every bike & part consideration starts around here because I've been self unemployed for nearly 20 years) I would carefully check the actual wheel alignment and riding.   Was it riding fine or dangerous?

After riding safety was deemed unacceptable, I would check overall geometry.  You have and found discrepancy.

If that was off, I would look for witness marks and evidence of crash damage vs a manufacturing issue.  These machines were built down to a cost within allowed parameters by regular people who probably only worked because they had to work. 

If there's real evidence of damage, I would try to undamaged it- just like the HD manual shows. 

If no good evidence of damage is readily found, it may have been built like that because it was still within allowed variations.  That bent tube may have been bent from Day 1 but wasn't a deal breaker for MG quality control (......)  so trying to straighten that tube after it has been captured within that frame will not go well.

Bending the top tube sideways like that without seriously damaging/totaling  the rest of the bike seems unlikely to me.  If it rides fine and doesn't show clear evidence of a wreck, it's probably been like that from new. Relax if you can, ride and enjoy.  If all is carefully measured, it may require comparing several frames to find an "excellent" frame.

Too bad you may need a frame.  I gave one away (actually two- one early V700 and one later Ambo/Eldo) just before I got my V700.  That's the only dependable way to move them out of your shop.   I went back and got the spare V700 frame but the other one was already gone. 

[SIR REAL ED]

Skip the shade tree and go right to a competitor's contemporary FSM-





















These pics are more about fixing front end bits, but is a common theme throughout many HD manuals. Just fix it.

When Aramet's Guzzi ends up handling like a Harley, he's gonna be even more pissed off than he is now.

Be careful what you ask for!

[moto-uno]

^   We are talking about a loop frame here aren't we ?    ,  Peter