2013 V7 special parasitic battery drain

[centrite]

After a winter layup I have a dead battery in my wife's bike. New battery last spring. First time this has happened since she bought it new.
The battery would not charge so I replaced it. First thing I checked was parasitic draw with key out in the locked position.
The 30 amp circuit drew 1.42 mA.
The 5 amp circuit feeding the instrument cluster drew 40.87 mA. 
All other fuse circuits 0 mA.
I don't know what the normal load is at rest. The 1.42 for the ECM sounds OK but not the 40.87 for the instrument cluster.
I also noted that the tach motor (possibly) makes noise for a moment each time the 5 amp fuse in connected. This seems strange since the tach does not seem to be powered by that 5 amp circ, it will still auto range when the key is turned on with that fuse pulled.
I pulled the plug on the cluster and the draw went to 0. It seems like the load is in or after the cluster.
 
The bike starts and runs fine. I checked the charging voltage between 13.5 at idle and 14.5 at 5k. 

Does anyone know what the normal draw with key off is for the 5 amp inst circuit? Is the tach motor supposed to be active with key off?
Any other ideas?

I do recall that the instrument cluster was replaced by the dealer at around 2k miles after the needle fell off the tachometer.
 

Anyway,
Thanks

 

[guzzisteve]

You may want to make sure you have the latest FI map installed. Might have something in the newer update. I do know much of the bike has power all the time, only ignition is off. It should not be enough to drain the battery. One year is what most battery warranties last. I'd try a new batt.

[SmithSwede]

Centrite:

I have a stock 2013 V7 and would be happy to measure and report back to you what mine does.  But can you explain in more detail exactly how you are taking these readings so I can duplicate what you are doing?

[Kiwi_Roy]

Im guessing he is pulling the fuse and substitution his meter on milliamp setting
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2013_V7_Series.gif
A,B & C would be irrelevant since they are switched
D,E & F arevon all the time.

[Kiwi Dave]

Im guessing he is pulling the fuse and substitution his meter on milliamp setting
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2013_V7_Series.gif
A,B & C would be irrelevant since they are switched
D,E & F arevon all the time.

Which is exactly what I did after I purchased my V7-III Stone.

I was concerned about the parasitic drain, but eventually decided it was the CAN bus that just took a while to go to sleep.  It never flattened the battery.

[sib]

Check your clutch lever at the handlebar.  The position-sensing microswitch should be fully depressed by the lever.  The clutch lever must return all the way to the stop when released, otherwise the Clutch Lever Position Sensor Switcher Power circuit (part 887948) will drain the battery (it’s energized even when the ignition is off).  I once measured the parasitic current both ways and, as I remember, it was about 10X higher if the clutch lever isn't fully depressing the microswitch.  Hope this helps.

[sign216]

The parasitic power drain has been a problem ever since the 750 Breva.  I disconnect my battery in the winter, and recharge frequently.  I got a lithium battery a few years ago.  It doesn't lose charge over the winter, but it still has to be disconnected.

Sib,
That's an interesting point about the clutch lever switch.  Do you think that's an issue only for the more modern V7, with their complex, integrated electronics?  I can't imagine that happening w the Breva, or early V7.

Joe

[sib]

The parasitic power drain has been a problem ever since the 750 Breva.  I disconnect my battery in the winter, and recharge frequently.  I got a lithium battery a few years ago.  It doesn't lose charge over the winter, but it still has to be disconnected.

Sib,
That's an interesting point about the clutch lever switch.  Do you think that's an issue only for the more modern V7, with their complex, integrated electronics?  I can't imagine that happening w the Breva, or early V7.

Joe

I haven't looked at the wiring diagrams of the earlier bikes, but I know it's true for the V7(I) and V7II series.  This topic came up a few years ago, and I posted my measurements, but I can't find them now.

Update: I found the data.  The parasitic draw is 2 mA with the clutch lever fully open and jumps to 53 mA when partially pulled.  53 mA doesn't sound like a lot, but it theoretically will drain a 12 Amp-hour battery in 12/.053 = 226 hours, or about 9.5 days.  At 2 mA, the battery will be drained in about 8 months.

[sign216]

I haven't looked at the wiring diagrams of the earlier bikes, but I know it's true for the V7(I) and V7II series.  This topic came up a few years ago, and I posted my measurements, but I can't find them now.

Ok.  Thanks for bringing that up.  I missed that issue.

[sign216]

I haven't looked at the wiring diagrams of the earlier bikes, but I know it's true for the V7(I) and V7II series.  This topic came up a few years ago, and I posted my measurements, but I can't find them now.

Update: I found the data.  The parasitic draw is 2 mA with the clutch lever fully open and jumps to 53 mA when partially pulled.  53 mA doesn't sound like a lot, but it theoretically will drain a 12 Amp-hour battery in 12/.053 = 226 hours, or about 9.5 days.  At 2 mA, the battery will be drained in about 8 months.

Sam,

Interesting.  The current draw is heightened only when the clutch micro switch is partially engaged, is that right?  Full open and full closed are both okay?

Joe

[centrite]

Hey, thanks everybody. Yes to SmithSwede and KiwiDave. I put a Fluke 83 on mA in series with load at fuse the socket. Sib too, I'll check the clutch switch.
All the other ideas too. I haven't changed out my regulator with a mosfet yet. I have the new one but was going to ring out this problem first since my charging voltages looked OK.

Thanks again.

[Andy1]

Interesting - I am not riding my 2014 V7 MkI 1TB very often at the moment, about once every 4 weeks, and when I put it on a battery tricklecharger after 3 weeks I was surprised how long it took to fully charge.  So it looks like mine also has a high discharge rate.
How do you test the clutch switch?  Mine is fully screwed in place so It should be activated correctly by the handlebar lever, but that does not mean it is electrically working correctly.
AndyB

[Kiwi Dave]

Sam,

Interesting.  The current draw is heightened only when the clutch micro switch is partially engaged, is that right?  Full open and full closed are both okay?

Joe

I'm intrigued too.  The clutch switch is only a single pole single throw device (unlike the Cali 1400 & V85 which have a single pole double throw action).  There is no way it can signal that it is only partially open.

[SmithSwede]

Centrite:

OK, I tested my 2013 V7 Stone.  I'm not an electrical guru like Kiwi Roy, so I can't really comment on what this data means other than to say that my bike works fine.  I've never had a problem with it draining the battery.  On the other hand, I ride it virtually every day year round, typically 100 miles or more.  If for some reason it sits more than 3 days I always put a trickle charger on it.  Just habit.

Results.

My bike sat overnight without being started before I took these measurements.  I took these readings with the ignition switch off, key out of the ignition, bike in neutral, kill switch not engaged.

There are 6 fuses under the seat on the right hand side next to the air-cleaner.  The one closest to the front wheel is 10A [A], then behind it is a 15A , then another 15A [C], then a 5A [D], another 5A [E], and lastly, closest to the rear wheel is a 30A fuse [F].

-------

At first I removed one fuse at a time, leaving all the other fuses in place.  I put the leads of a multimeter across the terminals where the single removed fuse was previously located.   

I got zero current on the 10A and both 15A fuses.  I.e. fuses A, B, and C, which Kiwi Roy says are switched off.   

The first 5A fuse (closest to front wheel, fuse D) showed 40.7 milliamps.  When I probed across this fuse, the motor in the tachometer buzzes for about two seconds, but the tach needle does not sweep across the dial the way it does on start-up.  Also, the numeral 3 is displayed in the time/temperature window of the tachometer.  I think this fuse supplies instrument panel and turn signals.

Moving rearward, the next 5A fuse showed 1.9 milliamps. I think this is fuse E, powering the ECU.

Finally, when I would probe the 30A fuse, current was 42.4 milliamps.  And I got the same tachometer motor buzz, and the numeral 3 displayed, as described above.  This is fuse F, the main fuse.

-----

Next I tried removing multiple fuses.

First I removed both the 5A closest to the front wheel [D], and also the 30A fuse [F].   Now when probing across the 30A fuse terminal, I got 2.0 milliamps. 

Then I removed both 5A fuses and the 30A.   That resulted in zero current at the 30A fuse terminal.

Next I removed the 5A fuse closest to the rear tire [E], and the 30A fuse, but left the other 5A fuse in place [D].  That resulted in 40.3 milliamps at the 30A fuse terminal.

Finally, I did a few tests at the 30A fuse messing around with the clutch lever, but didn't seem to see any changes.  Maybe I didn't have the meter configured correctly. 

Hope that helps.  Please don't hesitate to ask if you want me to test some other configuration. 

 

[sib]

Sam,

Interesting.  The current draw is heightened only when the clutch micro switch is partially engaged, is that right?  Full open and full closed are both okay?

Joe

Incorrect.  When the lever is completely open, the microswitch button is depressed by the tang on the lever and the switch is electrically open.  Any amount of lever movement towards disengaging the clutch lets the button out and electrically closes the microswitch.  So, partial engagement means extra parasitic drain.

I did my measurements the simplest way.  I removed one of the battery terminal wires and put an ammeter between the disconnected wire and the battery terminal itself.  That way, I got a reading of the total parasitic drain.

[Andy1]

So if the clutch cable has too much play the handlebar lever will not be pulled fully back and the switch will remain on....causing drain??
AndyB

[bmc5733946]

When checking for parasitic loads it is best to use a method that allows the meter to be connected while the circuit is still connected to the battery or fuse. This can be accomplished by disconnecting the battery or fuse, connecting the meter, then reconnecting the circuit by holding the battery cable to the terminal or holding the fuse across the meter leads. This will eliminate any capacitive loads that need charging and would show as a load. Then make the disconnection and measure the parasitic load. I'm not sure how much this is applicable to our favorite brand of motorcycle, it is a standard in the automotive world and they make diagnostic equipment with it in mind.

Mostly food for thought, YMMV and all that stuff.

Brian

Edited for clarity. "Then make the disconnection etc."

[sib]

So if the clutch cable has too much play the handlebar lever will not be pulled fully back and the switch will remain on....causing drain??
AndyB

Yes.  Probably the most frequent cause.  Another way this happens is if the clutch lever is binding from being too tight or needing lubrication.

[jaydubb]

Jason Wallace (Moto International Sr tech for 17yrs).
check that the clutch switch is not damaged. several years had wrong shaped nub on inside of clutch lever that would destroy the clutch switch. A depresed clutch switch has twice the draw of a non depressed one thats not damaged. NEVER bypass a clutch switch on a 750 small twin....

[Kiwi_Roy]

Check your clutch lever at the handlebar.  The position-sensing microswitch should be fully depressed by the lever.  The clutch lever must return all the way to the stop when released, otherwise the Clutch Lever Position Sensor Switcher Power circuit (part 887948) will drain the battery (it’s energized even when the ignition is off).  I once measured the parasitic current both ways and, as I remember, it was about 10X higher if the clutch lever isn't fully depressing the microswitch.  Hope this helps.

I tried pulling the clutch no change in the current on my bike 105 microamps steady
Roy

[RubenvT]

Centrite:

OK, I tested my 2013 V7 Stone.  I'm not an electrical guru like Kiwi Roy, so I can't really comment on what this data means other than to say that my bike works fine.  I've never had a problem with it draining the battery.  On the other hand, I ride it virtually every day year round, typically 100 miles or more.  If for some reason it sits more than 3 days I always put a trickle charger on it.  Just habit.

Results.

My bike sat overnight without being started before I took these measurements.  I took these readings with the ignition switch off, key out of the ignition, bike in neutral, kill switch not engaged.

There are 6 fuses under the seat on the right hand side next to the air-cleaner.  The one closest to the front wheel is 10A [A], then behind it is a 15A , then another 15A [C], then a 5A [D], another 5A [E], and lastly, closest to the rear wheel is a 30A fuse [F].

-------

At first I removed one fuse at a time, leaving all the other fuses in place.  I put the leads of a multimeter across the terminals where the single removed fuse was previously located.   

I got zero current on the 10A and both 15A fuses.  I.e. fuses A, B, and C, which Kiwi Roy says are switched off.   

The first 5A fuse (closest to front wheel, fuse D) showed 40.7 milliamps.  When I probed across this fuse, the motor in the tachometer buzzes for about two seconds, but the tach needle does not sweep across the dial the way it does on start-up.  Also, the numeral 3 is displayed in the time/temperature window of the tachometer.  I think this fuse supplies instrument panel and turn signals.

Moving rearward, the next 5A fuse showed 1.9 milliamps. I think this is fuse E, powering the ECU.

Finally, when I would probe the 30A fuse, current was 42.4 milliamps.  And I got the same tachometer motor buzz, and the numeral 3 displayed, as described above.  This is fuse F, the main fuse.

I also did a test on parasitic drain on my v7 2013 stone and measured a total of 54.5 milliamps being draw. Most of this was drawn by the same circuit mentioned by Smith 5A fuse E.
As my measurements are a bit higher than Smith's but not extremely different, I'm starting to wonder whether the parasitic draw is too much or if alternatively the battery is the problem.

My battery is 4 months old, but i found it at 4V after a month or so of not driving. Was able to recover it with a trickle charger and it held voltage of 12.65-12.63 in around 4 days. So I thought the battery was okay, but maybe not when under the load of my motorcycle...

[RubenvT]

Hey, thanks everybody. Yes to SmithSwede and KiwiDave. I put a Fluke 83 on mA in series with load at fuse the socket. Sib too, I'll check the clutch switch.
All the other ideas too. I haven't changed out my regulator with a mosfet yet. I have the new one but was going to ring out this problem first since my charging voltages looked OK.

Thanks again.

Hey, what mosfet regulator did you buy specifically? What specs should i look out for. I think I have a similar issue.

[Kiwi_Roy]

This is a 5 YO thread, hopefully he has resolved it by now.

I only measured 0.1 milliamps or 105 microamps to be exact.
It made no difference if the clutch is pulled or not.
Later on I tried switching the key On, current shot uo to 550 mA
Turned the key Off, current remained at 550 for 14.5 seconds then dropped right down again
i suspect this circuit supplies the electronics that is used for the startup Light Show