Norge Booster Plug , Sprint air filter and snorkel removal

[guzzi771]

My 2016 Norge runs so much better now thanks to the Booster Plug and Sprint air filter money well spent

[Xlratr]

 

[moto-uno]

  After 500 km on my new 2018 Eldorado , I got and installed a booster plug , that was all I needed to improve the
low speed running . Nice and easy  , Peter

[Perazzimx14]

Move over I wanna good seat to witness the spectacle about to unfold 

[oldbike54]

 At some point repeating the consequences of running a booster plug and open air filter just seems senseless . It's like the car tire argument , or the discussion about whether we have been to the moon , no one's mind gets changed .

 Dusty

[guzzi771]

At some point repeating the consequences of running a booster plug and open air filter just seems senseless . It's like the car tire argument , or the discussion about whether we have been to the moon , no one's mind gets changed .

 Dusty

What consequences are you taking about ? My Guzzi runs better now and thats a good thing .

[oldbike54]

What consequences are you taking about ? My Guzzi runs better now and thats a good thing .

 Do you understand what that booster plug/fat duc thing is actually doing ?

 Dusty

[guzzi771]

Do you understand what that booster plug/fat duc thing is actually doing ?

 Dusty

Please tell me because my bike runs better not worse

[oldbike54]

Please tell me because my bike runs better not worse

 The booster plug is a spoofer , it is nothing more than a 50C resistor that is telling the computer that the engine is cold  . The funny thing is , on the official Booster Plug website they admit they are selling snake oil , because they call the "other" products that do exactly the same thing snake oil . A proper remap is way more effective , and won't cause the engine to overfuel . There are probably 20 threads on WG that explain the reality of this .

 Dusty

[guzzi771]

The booster plug is a spoofer , it is nothing more than a 50C resistor that is telling the computer that the engine is cold  . The funny thing is , on the official Booster Plug website they admit they are selling snake oil , because they call the "other" products that do exactly the same thing snake oil . A proper remap is way more effective , and won't cause the engine to overfuel . There are probably 20 threads on WG that explain the reality of this .

 Dusty

Thanks for warning I'll research it .

[Kitze]

That’s how all the plug and play units work. The original patent (Guy named Dubec) expired several years ago. Hence the plethora of Optimizers, O2 tweakers and such in the last decade or so. Dynojet for many years had exclusive licensing rights.
Sorta like Paul’s patent with emulators. For years Racetech was the only game in town. Now they’re all over the place

[guzzisteve]

Move over I wanna good seat to witness the spectacle about to unfold 

Yea
If all it works on is temp sensors it'll wash cyl walls at some point.
Better to just turn off O2's

[moto-uno]

  I've gone through most of these earlier posts concerning the "booster plug " , consensus appeared that
those that don't like the idea poo pooed them , those that installed them enjoyed them , no remarks of
people that used them actually removing them . The greatest criticism came from those that hadn't used them.
(not completely unusual ). If it works for you , then Yahoo . These discussions are what keep us coming back
to this site , heck, some peoples opinions about tires and seats are different than mine too  .  Peter

[oldbike54]

  I've gone through most of these earlier posts concerning the "booster plug " , consensus appeared that
those that don't like the idea poo pooed them , those that installed them enjoyed them , no remarks of
people that used them actually removing them . The greatest criticism came from those that hadn't used them.
(not completely unusual ). If it works for you , then Yahoo . These discussions are what keep us coming back
to this site , heck, some peoples opinions about tires and seats are different than mine too  .  Peter

 Pete Roper has posted about engines he has torn down that were ruined by spoofers . You are basically over jetting the engine and washing the cylinder wall down with gasoline . A proper remap is the answer , not these over priced pieces of nonsense .

 Dusty

[moto-uno]

  I'll let you know in a decade or so  . Peter

[pyoungbl]

I tried one on my Norge, seemed like a cheap way to make the bike run better (Guzzi content).  On my first trip with the kit the bike ran so rich it fouled the O2 sensors to the point where the bike went into limp mode.  Oh, and fuel mileage dropped to the mid 20s.  I removed that POS as soon as I got to my destination (700 miles) and borrowed a pair of O2 sensors so I could get home.  A simple remap of the ECU proved to be a much better solution.  Over time a spoofer will wash the cylinders and cause excess ring wear. 

Peter Y.

[Kev m]

Spoofers, by their definition fatten up the mixture. This sounds like a good theory if indeed the mixture is always lean.

The danger is that mapping is NOT always lean as it is only regulated so under certain operating conditions.

We've been told by a few who have deep dived into multiple Guzzi maps that they go rich, pig rich, at certain times including WOT.

So those times will be over-fueling.

One of the best Guzzi mechanics we know has warned us that he has personally torn down a few Guzzi motors destroyed by these things.

So even if you get away with it for a while you are still risking catastrophic failure over time. Seems like a silly thing to risk for a perception of better "performance".

[80CX100]

Move over I wanna good seat to witness the spectacle about to unfold 

     We're like a herd of Lemmings pulling over at a car crash 

     Let the games begin,lol 

           

    Kelly

[moto-uno]

 Using the word perception must come from a nay sayer , not a user .
On another note , please publish the dyno , exhaust gas readings from
a dyno'd California or Eldorado . Engine temp readings would be nice too.
 :azn:Peter

[wallyging]

Here's a good explanation by roger04rt on AdvRider.com of how the BMW ECUs deal with the Booster Plug - in a few tankfulls the ECU corrects out it's initial effect. Does anyone know if the Guzzsi ECU reacts similarly?

When you install just the boosterplug, it changes the temperature signal sent from the intake manifold to the ECU (Motronic or BMSX). Momentarily, that results in the ECU seeing a cooler air temperature and adding about 6% fuel. However, moments after that, the ECU is reading the O2 sensor, sees that the mixture is too rich and within seconds reduces the fueling to exactly where it had been before the addition of the BoosterPlug (let's not just pick on them, every IAT shifter has this problem). And worse, after enough riding, all the long term trims have fully adjust to the IAT temperature shift and there is no fueling difference anywhere--the long term trims are all set to about 0.94, which is 6% less than 1.00. So the simple math is that the BoosterPlug says to add 6% to fueling and the Long Term Trims say to remove 6% fueling and you end up back at stock fueling. https://advrider.com/f/threads/2004-r1150rt-wideband-o2-sensor-project-and-af-xied-for-bmw.749080/page-112

[oldbike54]

 These spoofers are like "engine rebuild in a can" snake oil , there is no substitute for a proper remap .

 Anyone else remember those little fan thingies advertised in the bike mags that when installed in the intake tracts would boost power by some incredible amount ? Yeah , they were the blades from computer cooling fans 

 My favorite is still the 100 MPG carburetor , although I haven't heard about one of those in a few years 

 Dusty

[Kitze]

 My favorite is still the 100 MPG carburetor , although I haven't heard about one of those in a few years 

 Dusty

Oh the Pogue carburetor. My favorite useless invention.
Problem with ‘em is nobody wants to carry an unstable thermobaric bomb around. Understandably! But Then again..maybe the 75% failure rate (read explosions) In testing is part of some great conspiracy 🤪

I remember the “turbine induction” blades. They always seem to be the equivalent of Pet Rocks!

[moto-uno]

  Gentleman , I've never suggested that the remapped ecu wasn't a good ( or even excellent idea ) , but there is no Beetle map for the Eldorados !
Also these remarks about the ecu basically eliminating the effects of the booster plug , well to that I'd have to ask "how long does it take "? 'Cuz
it doesn't appear to have changed in the last 800 km . And guys , don't get me wrong , I pretty much started a conversation to hear peoples
experiences ( the "2018 Eldorado thread), at that time there were very few with actual experiences replying , I wasn't attempting
to hi jack this thread , it's just about similar bikes with similar concerns . And I have read remarks from those that removed it  , Great , I'm
not about to poop on others better experiences .  Peter

[Kev m]

Using the word perception must come from a nay sayer , not a user .
On another note , please publish the dyno , exhaust gas readings from
a dyno'd California or Eldorado . Engine temp readings would be nice too.
 :azn:Peter

The word perception comes from a user of other types of these devices on other platforms (O2 foolers on Harleys). No exhaust gas analyzer, but cylinder head temp readings with a laser pyrometer and tracking fuel mileage lead me to conclude there was little to no benefit.

On Guzzis I went another route and had a reflash done by Guzzitech on a CARC, the improvements were noticeable, including a otherwise paradoxical seeming INCREASED fuel mileage with at higher rpms/WOT. But the explanation I received from Pete and Beetle was that the Guzzi maps being overfueled at those points so Todd must have been smart enough to back out some of the fueling at those points to help.

But I'll anxiously await the before and after data from your dyno runs and exhaust gas analysis since you brought it up.

Here's a good explanation by roger04rt on AdvRider.com of how the BMW ECUs deal with the Booster Plug - in a few tankfulls the ECU corrects out it's initial effect. Does anyone know if the Guzzsi ECU reacts similarly?

When you install just the boosterplug, it changes the temperature signal sent from the intake manifold to the ECU (Motronic or BMSX). Momentarily, that results in the ECU seeing a cooler air temperature and adding about 6% fuel. However, moments after that, the ECU is reading the O2 sensor, sees that the mixture is too rich and within seconds reduces the fueling to exactly where it had been before the addition of the BoosterPlug (let's not just pick on them, every IAT shifter has this problem). And worse, after enough riding, all the long term trims have fully adjust to the IAT temperature shift and there is no fueling difference anywhere--the long term trims are all set to about 0.94, which is 6% less than 1.00. So the simple math is that the BoosterPlug says to add 6% to fueling and the Long Term Trims say to remove 6% fueling and you end up back at stock fueling. https://advrider.com/f/threads/2004-r1150rt-wideband-o2-sensor-project-and-af-xied-for-bmw.749080/page-112

Yes, it's called fuel trim and most (all?) forms of modern feedback injection use some form of fuel trim whereby small adjustments are made over time to compensate for differences in the system (basic wear).

That was the conclusion we reached on O2 sensor spoofers and it doesn't surprise me that others have reached the same one with air temp spoofers.

I will say that the amount of trim and the total effect on the map may vary from brand-to-brand or model-to-model. But I would expect the same end result over time.

How much time M-U asks - many tankfuls. And it happens very slowly, which is something that can be hard to notice as one gets used to the feel of a machine as they use it more and more.

Why did I originally use the term "perceive" because a lot of people will refer to things like

* Smoothness
* Power

and PERCEIVE what they expected to perceive and absent that data, well, they are often fooled.

It's one of the reasons why a mechanic sometimes jumps on a customer's bike and goes "holy crap this is wrong" and the customer is like "what do you mean". It's because they are USED to it so they don't notice it the same way, it doesn't jump out at them.

[John A]

If your new bike runs like crap and the dealer needs you to pay for their learning curve and cannot show any improvement,  you would be willing to try most things, even things that are detrimental for the bikes health .  I was there once myself but through learning and experience , I won’t do it that way again.
Edit, just reread the op,  that’s not a new bike. My opinion is still the same but with more options there are better ways

[moto-uno]

  Good points all , but possibly 42 years as a motorcycle mechanic in Harley shops and Yamaha shops gives  one
a bit of hands on experience , and yes dyno times were spent mostly on Harleys , they wanted bragging rights and
were only too willing to pay for it . I spent some time with my much modified Le Mans 2 on the dyno . But I have no
interest at all in putting mine on one , I was simply asking for recorded proof ( not completely unwarranted ) .
  I live on a steep (all be it short ) driveway and for the first 500 km I simply had my wife wait at the top before getting
on , after said component change she gets on with me and we're off , no revving , just smooth take up .
  I'm kinda curious about these remarks suggesting how in time , the ECU decides to ignore any of the connected sensors 
and randomly just go with another one of choice . Didn't notice it on any of the other brands I worked on , but
maybe 2018 Eldorado's are different ? If this is correct , then I should eventually discover that my bike with my
wife on the back will no longer slide up the driveway at 1700rpm ? I'll definitely report back , it's not like I've got
a crap load of time and energy invested in this . And as lovely as the Guzzi Teck  components sound , they are right out
of my price range .
   Sorry "John A " , but I never mentioned it ran like crap , just the low speed was rougher than I wanted . More than a few people
thought driving a 1400 cc twin at anything less than it's torque peak rpm was crazy .
   And isn't this way more fun than listening to the news ?  Peter
 

[flip]

I put an O2 Optimyzer on my Breva 1100 not long after I got it. It did seem to run smoother at low rpm's. I left it on for a while, until I read some of Pete's posts about the damage they can cause. I removed it and strangely, I couldn't tell any difference in how the bike ran.

[guzzi771]

I went for 200+ mile ride today in the Texas hill county and my Norge GT 8V ran perfect . I have a Agostini slip on exhaust and a compensator eliminator on order I can't wait to get the Norge fully uncorked . The intake is much louder now with the Sprint air filter and snorkel removed air flow is much better. I could not be more happy with the Booster plug  and improved throttle response and faster acceleration ,gas milage is the same or better.

[beetle]

1. Who said I didn't have a map for the 2018 Eldorado?
2. What happened to Huzo's post?
3. Even with your booster plug, the autolearning still occurs. However, the window in which it runs closed loop has been narrowed somewhat.

[Huzo]

2. What happened to Huzo's post?

I pulled it..
If I keep going, I’m just going to get worse....
I’m comfortable with the fact that I’ve got the best Norge going around and have become uncharacteristicall y smug...
I don’t have to convince any bastard, or prove anything to anyone..(for once)..