V1000 Timing Trouble - Missing flywheel marks

[mneumann]

Hi there,

Hopefully this is the last question for awhile- I have been trying to get the timing correct on my G5 and am running into some issues. When I look at my flywheel I only have 3 marks. I have the D, S, and Arrow. It seems to be missing the two lines that go above the D and S. Has anyone encountered this? What is the best way to go about timing it?

I was thinking if I knew where the lines are suppose to be degree wise it would be easy enough to find TDC and then use a degree wheel on the front of alternator to correctly mark the flywheel and set the timing..?

Currently the bike is running pretty good but the right cylinder is running hotter than the left. I played with the carburetor setting and this did not effect it. I also just recently set the valve clearances to the .009" specified in the manual. This is what is leading me to think that the timing is the culprit.

As always any suggestions on how to proceed are welcomed.

[guzzisteve]

I would use a probe in plug hole for absolute TDC, should correspond w/flywheel marks. Then do the degree wheel on front. Arrow is for flywheel exposed, Lines up at centerline of cylinders for marks on the side.
AND yes I have seen those marks missing on a 850T. AND much more.

[LowRyter]

put a straw in the right cylinder, revolve the alternator nut until the straw hits TDC,  Take a marker on the alternator fin at 12 o'clock postilion (D side).    Then the left cylinder will hit TDC at 3 o'clock (S Side). 

Check the valves for clearance, you could be one revolution (360 degrees) out. (same as the timing marks)

[mneumann]

Once I find TDC how do I know where the static timing mark and advanced timing mark go? Is there a certain degree before TDC that they belong at?

[dxhall]

It sounds like your flywheel has the “D” and “S” marks to indicate TDC on the right (D) and left (S) cylinders, but no marks which would indicate when the plugs should fire in advance of TDC.

If that’s the problem, the solution is a “dial back” timing light.  Like this one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Snap-On-Tools-MT241A-Timing-Advance-Light-Used/124178570586?epid=1822147433&hash=item1ce99e9d5a:g:UmUAAOSw~y5eszsa

If the advance you want is, say, 10 degrees at 2000 rpm, you set the knob on the light to 10, rev the motor to 2000, and point the light at the flywheel mark.  If your timing is correct, the light will flash at the TDC mark.

[LowRyter]

So for as I know D and S are respective TDC for the left and right cylinder used for marks to adjust the valves.

I find marking the alternator fins an easier process.  If you can can see the D and S timing marks, you're good to go.  I still like the marker since it's much easier to see.

Have no clue about timing advance and ignition timing. 

[mneumann]

Yes the D and S do mark TDC. Not sure how precise they are but they’ve worked well enough to get it close. I just figure if I’m going to put new marks I might as well check.

[mneumann]

If the advance you want is, say, 10 degrees at 2000 rpm, you set the knob on the light to 10, rev the motor to 2000, and point the light at the flywheel mark.  If your timing is correct, the light will flash at the TDC mark.

That makes sense. Do the rpms need to be accurate for this? The bike doesn’t have a tachometer either. 

[Scout63]

The owners manual has the G5 ignition fully advanced at 31-33 degrees BTDC.  When rebuilding my engine I checked the flywheel with a degree wheel and a dial indicator on TDC.  The fully advanced marks were not only a little off, but also very lightly marked and hard to see.  I filed new marks with a small triangular file and then painted all marks. Not really worth doing unless you have the gearbox off.

[Two Checks]

S=sa lefta side.


D=datsa da right side.

[booob]

So for as I know D and S are respective TDC for the left and right cylinder used for marks to adjust the valves.

I find marking the alternator fins an easier process.  If you can can see the D and S timing marks, you're good to go.  I still like the marker since it's much easier to see.

Have no clue about timing advance and ignition timing.

D = Destra (Right)
S = Sinistra (Left)

[wirespokes]

This is from Guzziology. it doesn't list the V1000, and there are three variations 1. V7 Sport   2. 850T LM 1-5 & big valve Cali III  3. T5,SPII Mille GT, small valve Cal3, late S3:

#1: Right TDC to the Static Mark = 26mm
       Static to Full Advance = 52mm
       Left Full Advance to Right TDC = 102mm 

#2: Right TDC to the Static Mark = 16mm
       Static to Full Advance = 52mm
       Left Full Advance to Right TDC = 112mm 

#3: Right TDC to the Static Mark = 4mm
       Static to Full Advance = 62mm
       Left Full Advance to Right TDC = 114mm 

The flywheel is 722.5mm circumference, 2mm = 1 degree Rotation.

You can also determine distance by ring gear teeth. Divide the number of teeth by 360 and you've got it. There are 96 teeth, which works out to 3.75 degrees per tooth.

[pehayes]

D = Destra (Right)
S = Sinistra (Left)

To be pedantic and more correct, Italian nouns have 'gender' and their adjectives must agree with that gender.  So, if we are talking about the 'right side' our adjective will change.  'Side' is a masculine gender noun 'lato'.  The adjective becomes 'Destro' with an 'o' rather than 'a'.  'Lato Destro' = right side.  The spark plug or 'candela' is a feminine gender noun.  The right spark plug or 'candela destra' resides in the right side of the motor 'lato destro'.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Howard R]

Even easier to remember, when translated into 'merican:

D = driveshaft side

S = starter side

Howard

[Chuck in Indiana]

Dis side
Snot dis side
 

[wirespokes]

LOL - where'd you come up with that one, Chuck? 

I remember it this way - Dexterous is probably derived from Destra. Most everyone is right handed, and not dexterous with the left, therefore...

[pehayes]

Dexterous is probably derived from Destra. Most everyone is right handed, and not dexterous with the left, therefore...

And left, sinistra/sinistro leads us to sinister because left handed people were perceived as evil.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Two Checks]

Nah....Frank might have been left handed.....

[mneumann]

This is from Guzziology. it doesn't list the V1000, and there are three variations 1. V7 Sport   2. 850T LM 1-5 & big valve Cali III  3. T5,SPII Mille GT, small valve Cal3, late S3:

#1: Right TDC to the Static Mark = 26mm
       Static to Full Advance = 52mm
       Left Full Advance to Right TDC = 102mm 

#2: Right TDC to the Static Mark = 16mm
       Static to Full Advance = 52mm
       Left Full Advance to Right TDC = 112mm 

#3: Right TDC to the Static Mark = 4mm
       Static to Full Advance = 62mm
       Left Full Advance to Right TDC = 114mm 

The flywheel is 722.5mm circumference, 2mm = 1 degree Rotation.

You can also determine distance by ring gear teeth. Divide the number of teeth by 360 and you've got it. There are 96 teeth, which works out to 3.75 degrees per tooth.

Awesome, I'll try to do some digging and see if I can find what the G5 is suppose be. Thanks!

[mneumann]

These are some creative ways to remember the D&S  . I did have those memorized, the problem I was having is there is no marking for the static mark and advanced mark so trying to figure out where they belong in regards to the D and S or TDC.

[booob]

To be pedantic and more correct, Italian nouns have 'gender' and their adjectives must agree with that gender.  So, if we are talking about the 'right side' our adjective will change.  'Side' is a masculine gender noun 'lato'.  The adjective becomes 'Destro' with an 'o' rather than 'a'.  'Lato Destro' = right side.  The spark plug or 'candela' is a feminine gender noun.  The right spark plug or 'candela destra' resides in the right side of the motor 'lato destro'.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Lol, moto is feminine... there are so many ways to explain the right and left using either gender (la sinistra della moto vs il lato sinistro della moto). i was just pointing out the origin of S and D.

[wirespokes]

Awesome, I'll try to do some digging and see if I can find what the G5 is suppose be. Thanks!

My guess is the G5 fits category #3. Category 2 are the high performance bikes with higher compression and large carbs.

[moto-uno]

 Bring the right hand cylinder to TDC on the compression stroke (D) , then go back 8 teeth and mark the flywheel with a dab of white paint.
 Do the same for the left hand side (S) and again go back 8 teeth and mark the flywheel with yellow paint ( the colours are for easy visibility )
 That way when you use your timing light you'll be able to verify they are at least equal , from there you can fine tune your timing to what
 works best for your bike (and riding habits) . This has been a favoured method to allow one to get started.  Peter

[Huzo]

you could be one revolution (360 degrees) out. (same as the timing marks)

???

[Tom]

Are you doing a tune-up?  After getting it to operating temp.  Pull clutch in and stab the start button.  If it starts without cranking.  Your timing is spot on.  Don't screw with it. 

[mneumann]

Are you doing a tune-up?  After getting it to operating temp.  Pull clutch in and stab the start button.  If it starts without cranking.  Your timing is spot on.  Don't screw with it.

It does start right up once warm. I know it’s close but the problem is that the right side is getting hotter than the left. It also backfires once in awhile. It’s close but not quite there and It’ll drive me nuts until I get it right!

[Tom H]

Rotating the crank. If your looking through the timing hole, you would rotate the crank up. If your using the bolt on the alternator, you rotate clockwise.

Now if you want to look at it one more way. While sitting on the bike in riding position (which is normally how the right and left of a bike is decided), it rotates counter clockwise.

IF you don't want to go though the effort of making advance lines, again, get the timing light with the advance feature. Just make sure your TDC's are correct.

I also believe your bike should be #3. D should be 2 degrees BTDC and S should be 3 degrees BTDC. Full advance timing should be 33 degrees.

Make sure your valves are correct. .008 inch for both is the book IIRR. Pete Roper said to go .005 intake and .007 exhaust.

Tom

[mneumann]

Rotating the crank. If your looking through the timing hole, you would rotate the crank up. If your using the bolt on the alternator, you rotate clockwise.

Now if you want to look at it one more way. While sitting on the bike in riding position (which is normally how the right and left of a bike is decided), it rotates counter clockwise.

IF you don't want to go though the effort of making advance lines, again, get the timing light with the advance feature. Just make sure your TDC's are correct.

I also believe your bike should be #3. D should be 2 degrees BTDC and S should be 3 degrees BTDC. Full advance timing should be 33 degrees.

Make sure your valves are correct. .008 inch for both is the book IIRR. Pete Roper said to go .005 intake and .007 exhaust.

Tom

Tom that does make sense. If I verify TDC and use the light to time the advance do I not need to worry about the static timing? The valves I just set to the book spec earlier this spring. 

[Tom H]

The 2 and 3 deg static can be set with the bike at idle with a light. Or you can use a multimeter hooked to the point and ground and watch for the point to open.

Tom

[Tom]

It does start right up once warm. I know it’s close but the problem is that the right side is getting hotter than the left. It also backfires once in awhile. It’s close but not quite there and It’ll drive me nuts until I get it right!

Sounds like that RH carb is running lean.  When was the last time you cleared the jets?  Some of that real fine grit that is in the carbs (white stuff) could be starting to plug the main jet on that side carb.  One thing you can do is check the air flow through the carb mouth with a 1/4 " fuel line while the bike is idling. (after reaching op. temp.)  Don't stick the tube in your ear but place it to the outside of your ear.