2008 Norge no start? (It lives!)

[mtwillyman]

I started the Norge and ran it a couple minutes. I went to start it again and it clicks by the battery. Help please.

Installed new battery and starter relay kit in the Norge (Blackis Turdis). It's alive! The Italians wire their bikes in a really strange way, SMH. Thanks to MPH cycles in Houston for really great service and tech advice. the Norge is up for sale BTW, haha! 

[guzzisteve]

Search a bit, well covered 1000 times

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=80041.0

[Kiwi_Roy]

The acid test is to take a wire with a spade connector on one end, connect it to the solenoid on the starter and touch it on battery positive. If it cranks like that then start from there.
Caution this will bypass all the interlocks so make absolutely sure it's in neutral, pull the clutch for safety.
The Norge has a known "Startus Interrupts" issue but it's very easy to cure if we know where to start.

PM Sent

[mtwillyman]

I'm going to order a new battery and purchase a starter relay kit from MPH. Thanks for the help. I'm glad I was not out and about when it decided to act up. Only Moto Guzzi could make a starter circuit this messed up arggghhhh.   

[Scott of the Sahara]

I bought my Norge in 2010. Just a couple of months ago the original Battery failed. Almost 10 Years. I have never messed with the starting circuit.

[Huzo]

I bought my Norge in 2010. Just a couple of months ago the original Battery failed. Almost 10 Years. I have never messed with the starting circuit.

Better hope you’re not in the Sahara when you need to Scott.
Mine did it outside the Collosseum in Rome. I felt like taking it inside and releasing the lions...!

Do the startus mod.
Clean every terminal.
Check the earthing point.
Follow the advice of jumping directly from the battery to the starter, before you throw a good battery away.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I bought my Norge in 2010. Just a couple of months ago the original Battery failed. Almost 10 Years. I have never messed with the starting circuit.

Did you purchase it new or perhaps a previous owner may have upgraded it?
There is no guarantee it will fail but eventually most do, its easy to avoid that.

[JediMasterII]

I installed the MPH kit a few days ago on my Norge as a prevention measure as I didn’t have starting issues but did not want A future one down the road.

I takes about 15 minutes to install. Take the seat off and the relay is the one located furthest to the right side. The relays have a rubber sleeve that slides on a plastic  mount and there are three in a row.

To make it an easy install, take off the small triangular painted body piece on the right side off (One hex nut in back and a slide on grommet post in the lower front).

Remove the top mounted relay and the MPH piece slides on and you should only be able to mount it the correct way due to the plastic connector geometry.

Hook the power lead to the positive battery post and its done. I followed the instructions and did try to start the bike after I initially pulled the relay off just to make sure it was the right one.

Good luck!

[mtwillyman]

Jedi,

New Yuasa battery and MPH kit on the way. I hope the bike will run, it did for awhile on Sunday.
Thanx for all the help. I'll post the results or lack of when parts arrive.

[steveford]

My guess is you only need the battery. 

[Huzo]

My guess is you only need the battery.

[Brian UK]

This problem has been going with Guzzi for decades. I first had to do the start relay wiring mod on my 1980 V50.
Will they ever learn?

If it fails when you are out, one part of the fault lies in the fact that all the power for the starter solenoid has to flow through the ignition switch, that's 25 Amps or more. I doubt the switch contacts are rated for that, but often, if you turn the key on and off a few times, you can clean that contact a bit and it will start OK.

I don't know what wire guage is used in the kit, but the main wire from the battery to relay should be twice the cross-sectional area od the original yellow wire. And while you are in there, replace the other wire from the start relay down to the solenoid with similar guage wire. All part of cost cutting, as copper is so expensive.

[Kiwi_Roy]

This problem has been going with Guzzi for decades. I first had to do the start relay wiring mod on my 1980 V50.
Will they ever learn?

If it fails when you are out, one part of the fault lies in the fact that all the power for the starter solenoid has to flow through the ignition switch, that's 25 Amps or more. I doubt the switch contacts are rated for that, but often, if you turn the key on and off a few times, you can clean that contact a bit and it will start OK.

I don't know what wire guage is used in the kit, but the main wire from the battery to relay should be twice the cross-sectional area od the original yellow wire. And while you are in there, replace the other wire from the start relay down to the solenoid with similar guage wire. All part of cost cutting, as copper is so expensive.

Brian, here's my thoughts on how it might have happened way back in history.
The Guzzi drawings show a single coil in the solenoid.
Luigi took his multimeter and measured the solenoid current, it measured ~10 Amps while cranking so he figured I'll throw a 15 in there for good measure.
They completely missed the fact that there have been two colils in the solenoid (Bosch or Valeo now the Chinese ones on the latest bikes)
I can't figure out why the starter manufactures don't say Hey, our starters don't work like that!
BTW I think it's probably in the switch, the grease goes hard with age and holds tension off the contacts, as you say it was never designed for 40+ Amps at inrush.

[mtwillyman]

Installed new battery and starter relay kit in the Norge (Blackis Turdis). It's alive! The Italians wire their bikes in a really strange way, SMH. Thanks to MPH cycles in Houston for really great service and tech advice. The Norge is up for sale BTW, haha! This great site makes owning a Guzzi possible. Thanks to everyone that helped me.

[Huzo]

Don’t you like your Norge anymore ?

[Kiwi_Roy]

I still maintain Luigi hasn't a clue how the starters work or he would have fixed this problem back in 1980 or earlier.

[gianpi_1011]

I'm having a similar yet not quite the same problem with my 2010 Stelvio.

The bike stood at least 3 months without starting, this is because I was waiting for my Roller kit to arrive. Once it did, I installed it and placed the battery, honestly not expecting it to do a thing, but it started! The next day I tried starting it again, but no luck, it seems it drained the last bit of juice the battery had, so I gave it a jump, and once again, it starts. Today I went for a short spin (we're still quarantined here in Chile). and started and stopped the engine at least 4 times; no issues. I checked my valve clearence just to make sure everything was still in place, and it was, but I come to start the bike again, i turn my key, and I get nothing....no fuel pump, no dash, no clicks, total silence. The inmobilizer still blinks once the key is turned and the stationary lights come on, but thats it. I disconected the battery for about 5 min and when I connect it again, I get the tach sweep and a message on the dash (0002, i think it was). I turn my key and no hope. I know we gotta be careful with reposts but all I've seen so far don't really match my symptoms, I'm not sure if this is a startus interruptus situation, my gut says its a faulty connection somewhere. But if anyone could point at what I should be looking at, I'd be greatly appreciated!


Anyways I've been enjoying the bike just sitting there and the "hassle" it has, as well as the vast amount of information on this site!

Cheers and take care!

[Kiwi_Roy]

First of all welcome to the forum and congratulations on fixing the valve gear.
If the Stelvio fuel pump is not cycling then relay (31) is not picking up check the fuse 4 I think.
Before (31) can pick up (30) must close by the ignition switch, you probably don't have the Anti Theft Device (60)
Check the obvious things like battery connections and especially where ground bolts to the chassis.
Do you get the light show when you turn the key On?
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2008_Stelvio.gif
Follow the Red/Black wire from relay (30) it powers up a whole bunch of stuff including relay (3 )terminal 1 where you can check for 12 Volts and the Kill Switch which would prevent the light show I think.
As to Startus Interuptus the diagram shows the same weak yellow wire feed, the cure is to snip it just before it branches to relay (3/4) and feed those from a 20 Amp fuse.
************
Notice how relay (30) is a little different from (31) it shows an extra diode but I wouldn't be surprised if they are all the same, I don't have a Stelvio to look at.
If you find any fuses blown get back to us.

[gianpi_1011]

First of all welcome to the forum and congratulations on fixing the valve gear.
If the Stelvio fuel pump is not cycling then relay (31) is not picking up check the fuse 4 I think.
Before (31) can pick up (30) must close by the ignition switch, you probably don't have the Anti Theft Device (60)
Check the obvious things like battery connections and especially where ground bolts to the chassis.
Do you get the light show when you turn the key On?
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2008_Stelvio.gif
Follow the Red/Black wire from relay (30) it powers up a whole bunch of stuff including relay (3 )terminal 1 where you can check for 12 Volts and the Kill Switch which would prevent the light show I think.
As to Startus Interuptus the diagram shows the same weak yellow wire feed, the cure is to snip it just before it branches to relay (3/4) and feed those from a 20 Amp fuse.
************
Notice how relay (30) is a little different from (31) it shows an extra diode but I wouldn't be surprised if they are all the same, I don't have a Stelvio to look at.
If you find any fuses blown get back to us.

Hey man! thanks for your feedback!

I went through the wiring and a cable that comes out of the key switch was making a bad contact. After cleaning that up, the dash turned up. To make things a bit more interesting, I got the dreaded click from the starter relay but did the Startus Interruptus Fix and the starter started turning as always. The engine didn't start probably cause of all the primes the fuel pump gave after switching on and off with the key. Tommorow I'll clean my spark plugs and disconnect my fuel pump and hope for a roar!

Thanks for your feedback!

[bad Chad]

Plus one on the Mph kit.

[travelingbyguzzi]

Willy, you motivated me to call MPH. I talked to Kim, quite a nice guy.
In 90K miles, I have had a no-crank twice which may or may not have been startus interruptus. Both times on a hot day with a hot engine. With a hot National in Kansas this year, I decided to eliminate that possibility.

Bill Lovelady         IS
Eskimo Spy

[OlderSlower]

I installed "Startus Interruptus" and it has served me well.  I do have an ongoing issue with sulfation on the battery terminals even with grease and cleaning.  Sometimes it hides and the terminal looks perfect until i remove cable connection and clean everything. 

[Vagrant]

I went through that BS with the constant corrosion on my kids 2007 1/2 chevy truck. nothing worked for long until I put those red and green felt pads that autozone and others sell. problem solved.
sure would like to know why it was only his that has ever been such a pain. I figured they used some kind of crap metal in the mfg of them.