Author Topic: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)  (Read 804 times)

Offline berniebee

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Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« on: May 15, 2020, 02:31:20 PM »
This thread will describe the rejuvenation of sorts (Not to be confused with a full on restoration!) of an '83 SP1000, with an eye to DIY as much as possible and a definite leaning towards thrift. (Tight wad, me? YES.)

First a starting point: When I purchased the bike, it was in mid crab, hanging from a chain block in surgery. The clutch and everything aft was laying about the garage. Probably not the best situation for someone who had never seen a Guzzi up close, but the price was right.




I'll start small. How about a take apart of what the braking section of the Guzzi parts list calls a "valve"? It's what some people call a proportional valve, but these (And the ones on your car) are really pressure regulators. For me, linked braking is a big part of what makes a Moto a Guzzi. With the circlip out, the internals slid out of the body:



Luckily for me, the unit WAS seized. Otherwise when I removed the circlip that spring might have launched the bushing (The larger OD part on the right side, pic above) into a tender part of me.
After studying it a while I suspected that the bushing was seized onto the shaft, which you can just see protruding on the right end.

 So into a vise it goes with an appropriate sized socket:


A spray of release oil and a slight closing of the vise:(Notice the spring compression.)



A few cycles of compression and release and finally the unit came apart: (Sorry about the focus.)



After some cleaning:



Back together, lubed with brake fluid:



Back in the vise with a smaller socket to install the circlip:



And finally some vaseline to keep out moisture. The last 10mm of the shaft is enclosed by the bushing, but it is open to atmosphere and that's where it seized. I suspect the rubber cap didn't keep out all the moisture, as it's not a tight fit. Hopefully the jelly will prevent this from happening again!












« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 02:55:45 PM by berniebee »

Offline berniebee

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2020, 03:52:05 PM »
After disassembly and cleaning the wheels,

(Don't even ask how long it took to clean the brake pad/disk dust and Georgia undercoat!) I found one bearing per wheel was rough.

So I replaced all four. Splurging already, I know.  But bearings are cheap from an industrial supply shop.

Getting the front bearings out was a bit of a challenge because the internal spacer leaves only a thin edge for your punch to "grab". I found that my widest round punch (1/2") worked best. New bearings stayed overnight in the freezer and then using my special tools (see the pic) they were a breeze to install.



The rear wheel was a little trickier. It was a bear to remove the steel sleeve/bearing tube, even with a 2" diameter steel pipe and the persuader. It didn't. want. to. let. go. But getting it out made wheel assembly a little easier. What worked for me is to insert the frozen bearings into the baked steel sleeve first.




Then freeze the whole shebang and coax that into the alloy wheel. Because it had been so difficult to remove, I made up a sleeve installation tool of threaded rod, a block of wood, washers and nuts. And then, surprise, surprise the dang thing just slipped in with one rap from my bare hand! 




Dang! The cush drive plate wouldn't slide over the sleeve!



 It looks like when I installed the bearing, the sleeve expanded slightly. I confirmed with a caliper- the end of the sleeve is now about .2mm bigger in diameter than the middle of the sleeve. Crap. The bearing wasn't THAT hard to install. File it? Sand it? (just kidding)  This is a quick job to correct on a lathe, but I sold mine long ago- it wasn't earning it's keep, both monetarily and in the space it took up. So it looks like my next task is to locate a good old fashioned machine shop.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 04:22:27 PM by berniebee »

Offline Stu

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2020, 04:28:37 PM »
Hi Bernie... nice project. I'm also not restoring my Guzzi, a 76 T3... bought as a running bike, but standing for the last 30 years. I imagine we'll be dealing with lots of similar issues!

Rode mine today for the first time... not very successfully but after having the heads off, it's a milestone!

Offline aproud1

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2020, 06:42:13 PM »
Quite a project Bernie. Look forward to seeing the progress. Best of luck to you and your knuckles!

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2020, 06:42:13 PM »

Offline rutgery

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2020, 04:08:24 AM »
Nice project! Do you know why the bike was crabbed before you bought it? Weird that your bearing carrier of the rear wheel expaned when pushing the bearing in?
The paint on the wheels look extremely good, is the rest of the paintwork in simmilar state?
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Offline berniebee

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2020, 08:43:22 PM »
Quite a project Bernie. Look forward to seeing the progress. Best of luck to you and your knuckles!

Thanks.

Offline berniebee

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2020, 08:45:49 PM »
Hi Bernie... nice project. I'm also not restoring my Guzzi, a 76 T3... bought as a running bike, but standing for the last 30 years. I imagine we'll be dealing with lots of similar issues!

Rode mine today for the first time... not very successfully but after having the heads off, it's a milestone!

Yes, probably we will be seeing a lot of the same things, since it appears that Guzzi shared a lot of parts over many models and years.

Offline berniebee

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2020, 09:17:11 PM »
Nice project! Do you know why the bike was crabbed before you bought it? Weird that your bearing carrier of the rear wheel expaned when pushing the bearing in?
The paint on the wheels look extremely good, is the rest of the paintwork in simmilar state?

It was crabbed for a clutch replacement- and the previous owner gave me new clutch plates, transmission input hub and a few seals too. Yes, it was weird that the bearing carrier expanded. I had checked the new bearing OD before installing it, (because I bought inexpensive Chinese made roller bearings.) and it was identical to the old bearing.  The new bearing wasn't particularly hard to put in, because I froze the bearing and heated the bearing carrier. So I'm not sure why this happened. Luckily, I posted a "help wanted" ad in a local online website and a fellow biker/machinist answered the same day! He's going to correct the issue with his lathe.

About the condition of the wheels, it was a lucky positioning of the camera. There are several areas where the wheel paint has come off and there a few fairly deep gouges here and there. I did spend a lot of time cleaning them, so they look ok from a distance. The rest of the bike could use a repaint.  The plastic front fender paint has faded and some has chipped away, the tank has a couple of minor dents and scuffed/ faded paint and one of the side cover's colours doesn't match the rest of the bike. It is definitely from another bike and it is missing the black plastic grill. But the rear fender is very nice!  :laugh:      40,000 miles/70,000 kms on it.

Offline berniebee

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2020, 06:34:05 PM »
Continuing with the wheels:Luck was with me.

A kind soul responded to my "Help, someone with lathe needed" ad on my local online site (Kijiji) the very same day I posted. A fellow biker and a machinist (Geez, where would you find those anywhere? :grin:) he had my sleeve ready a couple of days later.

So:

Sleeve in and install clip:



Shove the six disk bolts through:



Install the cush rubbers. Then lube the sleeve and and cush plate just like the factory did LOL, judging from the head stock bearings and this cush drive,
Italy must have experienced a national grease shortage in '83.



What the hell, the cush plate won't go in!



But with ArmorAll on the cush rubbers and couple of clamps, the cush plate easily slid in. And bonus,  I've got the best looking cush rubbers in town. :rolleyes:



Install the fiber ring and retaining plate with three new bolts, (Because they were all reluctant to come out, one broke off, and I had to drill and re-tap the hole.
Yes, I ran the tap in the other two holes for good measure.)



Installed all the disks and voila! This baby is ready to roll! Well after I reassemble the rest of the bike, that is.



« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 06:58:32 PM by berniebee »

Online Canuck750

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2020, 06:51:44 PM »
Nice work on the wheels :thumb:

Offline berniebee

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2020, 07:40:03 PM »
Thanks! It's a start. Meanwhile the frame patiently waits.



Offline berniebee

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2020, 08:17:34 PM »
The rear shocks look original and after 40,000 miles, are they any good?
Using my bits-around-the-garage shock spring compressor, I took them apart. Once the spring is compressed, the alloy preload adjuster can be rotated to where it pulls off.



Well first impressions weren't good. Every single part had some rust. The rust inside of the spring coils was especially heavy.



But with the dampers in a vise, there is smooth, heavy resistance to extension movement in both dampers and a fair amount of damping on compression too. I'm gonna use these shocks and see how it goes. So it's off to the paint shop (Ie:The other side of my garage) First, pluck out the rubber bump stop:



Sand most of the rust off, then extend the shock (But not all the way). Cover the bump stop and exposed shaft with masking tape:



Remove the tape when the paint has just dried and extend the shock out a little further to expose the line of paint, which you can then scrape off with a fingernail.



After the paint has fully cured, and some serious elbow grease to remove rust from the chrome, (And waxing of said chrome.)  it's time to reassemble again using the trusty compressor. Remember that the plastic sleeve slides on to the damper first, with lip against the stop, then the chrome ring.



And the shocks now look pretty decent. Generic bushings  for the eyelets are on the way...






« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 12:45:25 PM by berniebee »

Offline Scout63

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2020, 10:45:03 PM »
This is totally my kind of thread.
Ben Zehnder
Orleans, MA USA
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Offline berniebee

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2020, 09:54:59 AM »
This is totally my kind of thread.
Good to know SOMEONE is reading this besides me!  :laugh:

BTW the spring compressor tool is not my original idea- there are plenty of DIY solutions out there, I just found one that matched what I had available.

Offline berniebee

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2020, 11:58:22 AM »
Forwards- to the forks.
Believe it or not, these are the sliders AFTER cleaning with mineral spirits. I'm going to strip off the paint, and if these are not too scarred, polish them.


 
These air forks had an interconnecting tube which just crumbled off.



And after 37 years, it's no surprise to find cracked dust seals Hmm,  replace them or put gaiters on? I'm starting to like the classic look of gaiters.



Unscrew the 10mm hex head bolt in the bottom of the painted slider and slip the slider off. Unscrew the large metal nut at the top of the chromed fork tube and everything else comes out of the fork tube. It turns out the the large nut is actually the top of the damper.
The tricky part is removing the circlip at the very bottom of the springs/damper assembly. How to remove circlip with the spring tension on it? I've seen written explanations of a how-to, but a picture is worth a thousand words. See below. Insert a thin object through the hole in the damper rod. Hold said thin object with your left hand. Now rotate the spring with your right hand so that it winds itself down, away from the circlip.  Now you can let go, the spring remains in place and you can focus on removing the circlip. Whoever thought of this is a genius! In the pic below, the circlip is already off, but you get the idea.



Below, three pics to help me remember in what order all the bits go.









The damper is unscrewed from the damper rod with a plainly visible lock nut.
On top of the damper is a threaded black plastic plug. "Buddy, lend me a 16 mm wrench?" Yeah, neither do I.



 Actually, even if you do have one, don't use it. The plug was in really tight. The flats of a mythical 16 mm wrench would barely cover half the flats of this plastic piece and probably break it as you twist.  It's better to use  (the much maligned but sometimes really useful) big arse crescent wrench.



I learned a long time ago  (How? Don't ask.  :tongue:) that the cheeks of many crescent wrench's jaws are not parallel.  In other words, the jaws of the wrench are narrower at the front (tip) than at the back of the jaws. So if you are using a crescent wrench on narrow flats (as in this case), angle the wrench slightly so that the jaws have maximum contact with the flats. In the picture above the handle of the wrench leans towards the camera.


With the plug out, the air bladder can be plucked out... and it's bad news. This thing should look like a very little man's condom. Instead, the tip has been almost completely ripped off and folded back. (ouch)



The damper had plenty of clean, yellowish oil in it. Holding it upright, it seemed to have plenty of damping when extending the rod. But that macerated air bladder appears to be unavailable anywhere, so it looks like the end of the road for these dampers. The easy but costly solution is to install new FAC dampers.  I've heard rumours of people installing Showa cartridges from nineties Honda bikes with some machining, so I'll check that possibility . I've got a '76 Yamaha XS500 parts bike that has 35mm forks, hmmm...
Many other things to tackle, so for now I'll let my mind percolate a little and go on to other stuff.



« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 12:47:08 PM by berniebee »

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2020, 05:39:54 PM »
The sliders are fairly rough cast under that paint (and filler), so you'll have a bit of "smoothing" to do if you're going to polish them.
Charlie
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Offline berniebee

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2020, 06:01:03 PM »
Looks like I'll have to get the sander out! Thanks.

Offline berniebee

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2020, 09:41:58 PM »
So I took apart my transmission, mostly because it had about three teaspoons of oil in it, but also because the shifter...wouldn’t shift. I could press the lever down like I was downshifting, but nothing happened, except for the lever springing back up to it’s center position when I let it go.  And the lever simply wouldn’t move at all in the upshift direction. Hmmm.

I did my homework. I pored over the Haynes “MOTO GUZZI V-TWINS” manual and John Noble’s nicely photographed transmission take apart article.  Studied the official Moto Guzzi SP1000 parts list. I watched a couple of German language how to’s. They are beautifully shot and explained, so it’s just a shame that I failed my grade ten German class due to lack of interest. Couldn’t understand a word. My teenage indifference has come to bite me in the arse. (My Berlin born mom was, at the time, uh, displeased. ) Well dammit, who knew I was going to buy an Italian motorcycle? Also, I picked up some nuggets from my nearly new but already slightly oil stained copy of Guzziology. ($65 Can on Ebay and worth every penny, IMHO.) And searching this site, I saw some pretty good descriptions and pics too.

But there lies in these different sources some confusion -what the heck is going on with the names of the transmission shafts? I think John Noble even refers to one of the shafts by two different names in his article. 
I've created a chart:
 
  Moto                               Haynes                            John                      Dave (Guzziology)
  Guzzi                              manual                             Noble                  Richardson

Clutch shaft                         Input                               Input                      Input
Mainshaft              Layshaft/Intermediate                 Cluster              Mainshaft
Layshaft                     Output/Mainshaft                   Output                Layshaft

So depending on who you are talking to, a layshaft is a mainshaft and a mainshaft is a layshaft, and the middle shaft is a mainshaft/layshaft/intermediate shaft or cluster.
I had to take an Aspirin.

I have my own names for these shafts.  The shaft that is inserted into the clutch should be called “The shaft where the stupid clutch boss round nut was tightened by an eight hundred pound Italian gorilla with a 3/4” drive socket.” Followed by a swear word.

The shaft that exits the rear deserves the title of  the “Aw, where did that ball bearing go?” shaft.

Maybe the middle shaft should be called just that. You know, The Middle Shaft.  Not the lay or main or cluster. Maybe the intermediate. Or maybe the “Ooh, parts fall off really easily from both ends of this” shaft. ( You know how I know, at this point.) But I’m undecided.

Seriously, I’ll refer to them as the input, middle, and output shafts. Transmission disassembly has been dealt with numerous times, on this forum,  so I’ll only post a few pics, unique to my work in progress.

Special tool for removing the output shaft nut, about to be welded together. The “socket” is from a plumber’s valve socket set, which cost me about $15. Scrap piece of square tubing for the handle. I used this tool, along with the driveshaft sleeve in a vice grip plier. Yes, the vice grips left a few scars. (On the sleeve.)




I marked the shift forks in order from top to bottom as #1, 2, and 3, because a couple of sources warned to not mix them up. The two bottom ones are identical and really you just want to be able to note where any fork wear is, so that you can shim the drum accordingly. Mine were near perfect, especially when you consider they had 40,000 miles.



 

Rollers for the input shaft rear bearing were scattered inside the transmission. Though I think that happened when I pulled the shaft out.
Below: A few rollers missing.




John Noble’s article gave me a bit of a scare. Looking at the rear end of the output shaft, one of his pics showed (looking at the end, going inwards) a thick washer, an o-ring and then a very thin washer. I spent the better part of an hour looking for the “lost” thin washer. Then I looked at the Guzzi Parts list for the part number, so I could order one, and it wasn’t there! Turns out that the thin washer was only installed on later transmissions. But it could be installed (according to Dave Richardson) on mine. Only I can’t find the number! Apparently earlier transmissions didn’t even have the o-ring.

Hey no thin washer under this o-ring!





I’ve also discovered that the shift drum has excessive axial play. Something between 0.4 and 0.5 mm.
Measured by installing just the drum with a couple of washers/shims combination until I got no play with the end case installed. 




The shifting problem turned out to be (I think) a rusty shift drum shim that had probably frozen the drum in place.

Rusty shim




Everything else looks fine- virtually no wear on the forks, very tiny chips on a couple of dogs and oil covering everything except the rusty shim.

 So the transmission shall remain asunder, with parts carefully bagged and tagged until several shims, seals, bearing and o-rings show up.




Offline huub

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2020, 03:48:05 AM »
dont worry about the air bladders in the forks , they were a gadget , 
in theory they should provide a additional air spring to adjust the ride height, but they dont.
if the damping is still Ok, there is no reason to change the fork dampers.
new ones will be just as good/bad as the old ones
of course  a modern cartridge will improve damping enormously , but those take some modifying.
( the XS500 did not have damping cartridges. )

Offline berniebee

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2020, 09:18:22 AM »
dont worry about the air bladders in the forks , they were a gadget , 
in theory they should provide a additional air spring to adjust the ride height, but they dont.
if the damping is still Ok, there is no reason to change the fork dampers.
new ones will be just as good/bad as the old ones
of course  a modern cartridge will improve damping enormously , but those take some modifying.
( the XS500 did not have damping cartridges. )
Thanks, much appreciated. While looking for a replacement, I noticed that fork bladders from other bikes were much larger. I was wondering how effective the tiny Guzzi bladders would be. I'll reassemble and use the forks with just the top ring of the bladders as a sealing washer and see how it goes.

About the XS500, true they didn't have damping cartridges, but installing cartridge emulators on these forks is pretty cheap and simple. I've done this on my running XS500. (I have two XS500's in my garage, one's a fairly complete parts bike.) But the XS500 fork internals would need many more modifications than CBR600F bits to fit in the Guzzi, so I've decided against it.
I'll keep my eye out for compatible cartridge fork internals, but knowing that I can use the Guzzi forks as is for now is great. Again, thanks.


Offline huub

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2020, 08:45:42 AM »
i started motorcycling on a XS400 , was never really impressed by the front forks.
but may be with emulators they are better.
the inside of the guzzi fork stanchions are not machined, so running emulators in them will be a challenge.

 i probably started the showa cartridge conversions for guzzi's , there should be a 10 year old tread on the forum on how to
from when i did my le mans 2 , but the pictures disappeared .
I did a couple since,  used  VFR (RC36), gsxr and cbr600 cartridges.
It is a pretty straightforward process if you have access to lathe, because you need to cut M29x1 thread in the showa fork tops.
if you need additional info , just ask
« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 08:58:51 AM by huub »

Offline berniebee

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Re: Bernie's Budget Beast (SP1000)
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2020, 04:27:41 PM »
So I've put the SP1000 project mostly on hold for now.
Two reasons:
A: This sweet little Honda C70 has been a distraction. It was an impulse buy about 10 years ago as a rusty fixer upper thinking the wife might try it and like it enough to commute to the office with it. But it languished under a tarp in the garage since then. This spring I stripped it down to the frame and I've finally brought it up to clean running condition. Still needs a front fender, because I (Dammit!) ordered the wrong one from Taiwan. (Who knew there were two different styles?) I promised myself I'd finish this bike before starting another. Promise broken! But it really needs to be completed, so that I can free some space. Wife is not interested. Bedsides, selling it would pay for nice little box of Guzzi parts.




And B: With the Canadian/USA border closed, I'm waiting to get the Guzzi chrome seat railing sitting in a U.S. PO box just on the U.S. side of the border. I've also paid for  a set of dampers but told the American seller to hold them until I can get down to the PO box. There are numerous other parts which I need from U.S. suppliers and normally get shipped to that PO box. These suppliers do ship to Canada, but the difference in shipping costs plus the border brokerage fees is substantial. And the wait for packages to clear the border has soared to weeks. So I'll bide my time. Now that the Covid-19 infection rate is way down, (We've had something like two new infections in two weeks in our area.)  I've put aside concerns of unnecessarily taking up a hospital bed and started to ride the Yamaha XS500C.  Nice to be on a bike again!




 

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