Author Topic: Norge 8v running rough (Read 5674 times)

jim mac · « **on:** June 07, 2020, 07:36:31 AM »

Took the bike out for a run, got about 30 miles and it died on me, no signs of a problem just no power.
Puller into a layby and scratched my head. Buke didnt want to start again. I had the tank off the day before so off again to make sure nothing dislodged etc - nothing.

Tried it again, turning over a but slower than usual but no start.

Called the breakdown and waited. Gave it another try in hope and it was trying to start and eventually it did, running lumpy and rough but it was running. Nursed it home, it would go above 5000 revs. I got the impression it was only running on one cylinder.

Got it home and immediately took off the new map I had just installed and old one back on again as well as the Finebau unit as previous- no change. Plug on left sooty but dry, plug on right normal. Changed plugs no difference. Still wont rev above 5k. It's quite happy at tick over but doesn't run smooth above 2k and wont go higher than 5k

Ideas ?

Dave Swanson · « **Reply #1 on:** June 07, 2020, 07:53:11 AM »

It certainly sounds like it is running on the right cylinder only. The Norge has 2 ignition coils. My bet is the left coil, left ground, or left lambda sensor was disturbed when you had the tank off.

Did you check the left exhaust pipe? I would imagine it would be not nearly as hot as the right or even cool.

Bulldog9 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 07, 2020, 08:37:32 AM »

Quote from: jim mac on June 07, 2020, 07:36:31 AM

Took the bike out for a run, got about 30 miles and it died on me, no signs of a problem just no power.
Puller into a layby and scratched my head. Buke didnt want to start again. I had the tank off the day before so off again to make sure nothing dislodged etc - nothing.

Tried it again, turning over a but slower than usual but no start.

Called the breakdown and waited. Gave it another try in hope and it was trying to start and eventually it did, running lumpy and rough but it was running. Nursed it home, it would go above 5000 revs. I got the impression it was only running on one cylinder.

Got it home and immediately took off the new map I had just installed and old one back on again as well as the Finebau unit as previous- no change. Plug on left sooty but dry, plug on right normal. Changed plugs no difference. Still wont rev above 5k. It's quite happy at tick over but doesn't run smooth above 2k and wont go higher than 5k

Ideas ?

Have you upgraded the plug caps?

Dave Swanson · « **Reply #3 on:** June 07, 2020, 08:53:24 AM »

Quote from: Bulldog9 on June 07, 2020, 08:37:32 AM

Have you upgraded the plug caps?

+1 . The stock caps have been known to fail quite regularly

jim mac · « **Reply #4 on:** June 07, 2020, 09:35:03 AM »

plug caps are originals - 2012. never had any sparking issues and getting a strong spark on both sides - I reckon its no fuel on left - injector ?

Bulldog9 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 07, 2020, 10:55:26 AM »

Quote from: jim mac on June 07, 2020, 09:35:03 AM

plug caps are originals - 2012. never had any sparking issues and getting a strong spark on both sides - I reckon its no fuel on left - injector ?

I'm sure you do. But the issue isn't failure to conduct to the spark plug. The issue is the stock rubber caps crack and the spark routes to the Head and plug hole rather than to the spark plug. Is an easy upgrade and fix to an all-too-common issue. Even some 1400s are having issues.

beard · « **Reply #6 on:** June 07, 2020, 12:31:47 PM »

You handle maps, but did you also look for the sensor values and errors with GuzziDiag?

LowRyter · « **Reply #7 on:** June 07, 2020, 03:05:56 PM »

I'd check my spark on the cold cylinder.

Vagrant · « **Reply #8 on:** June 07, 2020, 04:23:29 PM »

"my eyes deceive me" change the boots before wasting your time on other things.

MotoG5 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 07, 2020, 07:54:56 PM »

Quote from: Vagrant on June 07, 2020, 04:23:29 PM

"my eyes deceive me" change the boots before wasting your time on other things.

Yes, This!

beetle · « **Reply #10 on:** June 07, 2020, 08:34:19 PM »

I did suggest it sounded like a spark problem. I also asked you to run an injector test. Have you done that? You can test spark & injectors with GuzziDiag.

Bert Remington · « **Reply #11 on:** June 07, 2020, 09:03:53 PM »

I was at a traffic stop about a mile from a friend's house and suddenly my Norge started misfiring. I managed to reach my friend's house with the right cylinder almost smoking hot and the left cool. When it cooled I pulled both boots and bending them back and forth checked them for cracks. Yep, found a crack in the left boot. Repaired with self-sealing tape. BTW the dealer had replaced the plugs the week before.

kingoffleece · « **Reply #12 on:** June 07, 2020, 10:06:54 PM »

Yep. Check the boot. Hamlin made a special tool to remove the boot without doing damage. He's that way-always doing things a better way. Every time I'm there I see a new something or other he's made to do a specific job better. Amazing.

jim mac · « **Reply #13 on:** June 08, 2020, 02:39:43 AM »

Quote from: beetle on June 07, 2020, 08:34:19 PM

I did suggest it sounded like a spark problem. I also asked you to run an injector test. Have you done that? You can test spark & injectors with GuzziDiag.

I ran an injector test, no change. no faults showing on GD, don't know what I would be looking for on a spark test on GD ?

Zoom Zoom · « **Reply #14 on:** June 08, 2020, 03:46:20 AM »

When I had a bad plug cap on my Stelvio, I was able to wrap some electrical tape around the cap to get by until I was able to replace them. Right at the top where the cap makes the 90 degree turn, they can crack on the bottom of that angle. When that happened to me, I could see a very small burn mark on the valve cover where arcing had occurred. Just a couple layers of tape around that area cured my trouble [until I replaced them].

John Henry

beetle · « **Reply #15 on:** June 08, 2020, 04:23:03 AM »

Quote from: jim mac on June 08, 2020, 02:39:43 AM

I ran an injector test, no change. no faults showing on GD, don't know what I would be looking for on a spark test on GD ?

If your injector is working, then you should focus on the plug caps. Pull the plug and rest it on the valve cover. Use GuzziDiag to test the spark. With the lights out, you should be able to see any wayward spark.

Check for cracks in the plug cap. They can be unscrewed to check for corrosion or arcing. Pull the lead from the coil and measure the lead. Should be ~5KΩ.

jim mac · « **Reply #16 on:** June 08, 2020, 01:55:18 PM »

pulled the injector and turned the engine - no fuel being passed, tried right - fuel ejecting.

looks like a duffed injector then, but guzzidiag not showing a fault ?

i note that it has 6 spray holes - but ones on web show 4 - does number of holes matter

beetle · « **Reply #17 on:** June 08, 2020, 04:34:44 PM »

GuzziDiag only pulses the injector. There's no feedback from the injector, so if it doesn't fire, neither GuzziDiag, nor the ECU will flag a fault. Only ground shorts or open circuits flag an error.

The number of holes is indicative of injector model, not it's functionality.

beetle · « **Reply #18 on:** June 08, 2020, 04:38:26 PM »

For anyone else following this thread, if you use GuzziDiag to test the injectors, always listen for "phht" noise the injector makes. Pop the injectors out and point them into a container helps, as you can see and hear it firing.

There are no errors if the injector doesn't fire. Only ground shorts or open circuits flag an error.

GuzziPilot · « **Reply #19 on:** June 08, 2020, 07:00:46 PM »

By golly, same thing for me 2 years back, 150 miles from home. Nursed that obnoxious sucker to nearest motel, and started taking things off, tank included. Finally thought I should go simple, instead of freaking. Pulled the spark plug boots, and then the sparkies. Cleaned them up, put it all back together...and wrapped that throttle on start up...damn near fell off the bike when it tached well beyond 5K! I also bought the better boots, but have yet to install them....bike still running strong. Go for the easy, simple stuff first.

Lee

jim mac · « **Reply #20 on:** June 09, 2020, 02:41:14 AM »

Quote from: beetle on June 08, 2020, 04:34:44 PM

GuzziDiag only pulses the injector. There's no feedback from the injector, so if it doesn't fire, neither GuzziDiag, nor the ECU will flag a fault. Only ground shorts or open circuits flag an error.

The number of holes is indicative of injector model, not it's functionality.

OK, the injector appears to be model iwp 162 - so as long as this part number, the holes don't affect anything, I cant find any with 6 only 4, so that should be an ok fit ?

beetle · « **Reply #21 on:** June 09, 2020, 03:17:09 AM »

iwp-162 should have 4 holes, although I have a document that's says 5 holes. Does it have a white band? The holes do matter in that both injectors should have the same number of holes. Also, you want to sure it's a real iwp-162. There's a few knock-offs getting about, and they have a different flow rates. Different flow rates will bugger the mapping completely.

jim mac · « **Reply #22 on:** June 09, 2020, 06:01:24 AM »

cleaned it up properly and see it is actually a IWP 190 - need new spectacles i think - 6 holes and blue band

anything from another vehicle fit ?

beetle · « **Reply #23 on:** June 09, 2020, 07:09:38 AM »

The 190 was used in Guzzi big blocks from ~2010, as well as some Aprilia's. Probably a few Italian models. Harley's as well.

Bulldog9 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 10, 2020, 11:02:16 AM »

Before buying a new injector, try swapping them to ensure the issue isn't electrical or the connector.

You still should change your plug caps

jim mac · « **Reply #25 on:** June 10, 2020, 06:09:50 PM »

Swopped them over, good injector shoots bad doesn't.

I swopped the caps and leads, no difference. New injector coming from Stein Dinse, eventually.....

jim mac · « **Reply #26 on:** June 21, 2020, 01:33:35 PM »

New injector fitted, both now working, but still running rough and wont go above 5k revs

Did a compression test and got 225 on leeft and 105 on right, blue warm and throttle full open ?

guzzisteve · « **Reply #27 on:** June 21, 2020, 01:45:31 PM »

I would pull the breather cap on RH side and see if that cam jumped a tooth, it does happen. Once compression gets by 80psi it won't run.

beetle · « **Reply #28 on:** June 21, 2020, 04:11:16 PM »

I agree with Steve. That behaviour is typical of cam timing being out. Classic symptoms.

Huzo · « **Reply #29 on:** June 22, 2020, 01:38:32 AM »

Quote from: jim mac on June 07, 2020, 07:36:31 AM

it would go above 5000 revs.

Still wont rev above 5k.

???

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Author Topic: Norge 8v running rough (Read 5674 times)

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Bert Remington

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