Gammatronix Ignition Amplifier

[ScuRoo]

After searching on site & coming up empty handed I thought it might help others looking for a simple electronic ignition option to post here as an addendum to previous discussion from 2018
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=98105.30

I wanted to recommission my smallblock that had been languishing in the corner for a few years and ended up installing a Gammatronix ignition amplifier. Would’ve preferred like say, the C5 optical unit but bike’s worth didn’t warrant that level of expense.

Installed under seat the unit has been fantastic as far as I’m concerned. Bike used to be a pita starting from cold - but now explodes into life in split seconds & doesn’t require grooming the throttle longer than 5 seconds to idle happily thereafter warming up while I finish putting my helmet & gloves on.

No association with company beyond being a happy frugal customer!

https://gammatronixltd.com/epages/bae94c71-c5b6-4572-89a1-e89006e78fbe.mobile/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/bae94c71-c5b6-4572-89a1-e89006e78fbe/Products/NewTwinC-12VNEG&Locale=en_GB

[ScuRoo]

[Kiwi_Roy]

Can I ask can the modules be separated if say one burns out or must both be replaced together?
I can see where in some cases you might like to have them on the bike as two separate modules rather than one big one.

[ScuRoo]

The Gammatronix cost me less than AUD$100 at the time of exchange rate but sells for less than £50 - and I also located two new coils from Whites which cost about AUD$30 each and are exact fit as original.

Hope this info helps others looking for excellent value upgrades. It’s been perfect for me... Cheers! 🍻

[ScuRoo]

Kiwi Roy - Yes. Just go on the site & look around, they sell individual units (at half the cost) but for our Guzzi twins - both smallblock & bigblock the units are doubled up to cater for each cylinder. I’m not knowledgeable as you but I guess if one went bad the other will still fire on powering the other cylinder. Suits me fine.

[n3303j]

I wanted to recommission my smallblock that had been languishing in the corner for a few years and ended up installing a Gammatronix ignition amplifier. Would’ve preferred like say, the C5 optical unit but bike’s worth didn’t warrant that level of expense.

C5 (PowerArc) has disappeared out of the motorcycle ignition business. There were a number of heat related issues with the optical module that were never solved. I've been running PowerArc in the Ural for a number of years. Lost two units due to heat related failures. A third quit with a defective optical sensor. These units are mounted under the front cover.

First iteration switched full coil voltage at the module. Second iteration (sold under C5 branding) applied full voltage at the coil and just sent a trigger signal from the module. Hopes were that it would run cooler. But that was not to be.

On their website C5 says they have discontinued the optical systems for motorcycles and are in the process of designing a magnetically triggered sensor system. Guess it's back to Holl Effect for them. Meanwhile all the people who bought PowerArc / C5 systems are left out in the wind for parts or warranty.

That being said; the system might have worked better on the MG as the module lived in the relatively cool distributor instead of the hot front cover.

Concept was great. When it worked it was excellent. Unit could contain four separate timing curves that would be selected by a handlebar switch. Also had a rev limiter. Unit had a user programmable option $$$  that would let you tweak curves to your heart's content.

Original unit was designed for drag racers that were running high compression and a blower. A failure to ignite a charge often destroyed the engine with hydrolock on the next cycle. Original PowerArc coil fired 3 sparks per signal. First on time. #2 & #3 very shortly after. This kind of guaranteed ignition.

But a dragster seldom runs over 5 seconds........

Probably a good thing you didn't get the C5 unit.

[Stevex]

Can you remove the twin units from the back plate to be able to mount as single units? I see they sell single units but 2 singles are dearer than the 2 unit deal.
Are these units compatible with the Tonti 850s?; part of the info on their website states 8 Amp (2 ohms) coil driving capacity – 20 Amps peak, which doesn't mean a great deal to me, not being an electrician.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Can you remove the twin units from the back plate to be able to mount as single units? I see they sell single units but 2 singles are dearer than the 2 unit deal.
Are these units compatible with the Tonti 850s?; part of the info on their website states 8 Amp (2 ohms) coil driving capacity – 20 Amps peak, which doesn't mean a great deal to me, not being an electrician.

I guess thats the question I was asking also, it looks like two complete sets on one common plate, it wouldn't make sense if you couldn't replace just one.

[Rough Edge racing]

Original unit was designed for drag racers that were running high compression and a blower. A failure to ignite a charge often destroyed the engine with hydrolock on the next cycle. Original PowerArc coil fired 3 sparks per signal. First on time. #2 & #3 very shortly after. This kind of guaranteed ignition.

But a dragster seldom runs over 5 seconds........

Probably a good thing you didn't get the C5 unit.

Multi spark ignitions have been around for 30 years as aftermarket automotive parts. Primarily they are captive discharge type. CD' s have a short spark duration so that's why the multiple sparks..Modern nitro fueled dragsters use dual magnetos that can generate over 40 amp each at high voltages....I don't know what triggers them but the vast majority of car units are magnetic..I had several discussions with the owner or engineer of C5 about his ignitions for use on older British bikes. Optical triggers can be affected by dirt or oil and heat, conditions many bikes have.
  But if an aftermarket ignition device makes the engine run better, that's all that matters.

[n3303j]

My dealings were all with Gary at PowerArc. Spent much time on the phone with him over the years. C5 is a marketing agent for Gary's PowerArc modules. Gary's ignition isn't CD. He said he was originally building them for the drag racing crowd (his words, not mine). Gary doesn't handle neegative comments well. I think that's why marketing got handed off to C5.

Optical sensor worked okay as long as it was clean and dry. But they certainly didn't handle heat well.

[ScuRoo]

Stevex - Yes, you can use these on the bigblocks.

When I looking for more information on the Gammatronix I contacted Moto Nero following which I was ready to take the punt for my purposes.
http://motonero.blogspot.com/2017/02/gammatronix-ignition-system.html?m=1

Kiwi Roy - Correct. The two units are mounted on aluminium plate & could be separated. My V65TT had an existing bracket under seat which was perfect - high, dry & easily accessible.

n3303j - Thanks for your update on C5. Sorry to hear of the problems with it, but that’s what these forums are for in sharing experiences. In a perverse way, it actually heartens me that I didn’t push myself to spend more moolah as I was quite enamoured with the concepts & claims.

However, that said - my experience with the Gammatronix had already left me musing whilst riding along was, “My motor is running so perfectly now with the Gammatronix - how could I possibly detect what extra benefit the optical timing reading of the C5 would do for my motor?” I was glad I had saved myself the money I would’ve wasted on something that exceeded what was needed.

My engine is 100% running perfect - strong, lively, no missing, incredibly easy started, immediate throttle response - I really don’t know how or could imaginably expect how it could run any better than it does now! When my motor was pressure tested both cylinders were closely matched & around 200 psi from memory.

One of my oem coils was not up to snuff tho & I was very relieved to have located the Whites. I think I had option to get either 3 or 5 ohms & went with the 3 ohms for some reason I can’t remember exactly why now I chose to do so - except I do remember there was some reason.... haha.

Only other thing to add is I’ve got Bosch platinum plugs which when I swapped in from the NGK’s made a discernible difference - smoother idling, smoother sound, happier somehow...

These engines speak ya know! 

P.s. Can’t vouch for this unit but thought it’s worth mentioning as it’s always good to mention hidden options out there!

https://www.kirkengines.com/#CompanyHistory

https://www.kirkengines.com/downloads/Trandenser_II_Installation_Plus_Schema_V3_3.pdf

[Stevex]

I decided to go down this route, so bought a pair. They're a lot smaller in the flesh than they even look in the above photo. They sit nicely behind the battery on the rear mudguard with some double sided adhesive closed cell foam.
I also installed a new set of oem points and a pair of Bosch plugs.
So far I've timed it at the static timing marks for my LM2 and only run it at idle to get some fuel stab into the carbs for winter storage.
It'll chug along at a very low idle just off the choke, although I don't normally allow it to low idle, holding the throttle open until it's warmed up.
I've installed a new cam chain and tensioner only a couple of thousand or so miles ago, so there shouldn't be any 'slack' in the timing and just had the distributor out to check the gear pin, which I found to have already been replaced with a roll pin; all the bearings were fine.
As my lightened flywheel came with no timing marks I used a piston stop and timing disc to ensure all markings were spot on; how necessary is it to check the timing marks at full advance and are they likely to be out at all? If so, what's the trade off in getting the advanced marks in which will put the static marks out?

[moto-uno]

  So tell  us all here , how much time do you think you ride on the retarded ignition timing ?
  Okay enough of the smart ass remarks , Full advance timing is truly worth the effort to set,
  no guessing or wondering , and once the marks are set , you're good to go with whatever
  you plan to do (with ignitions) in the future , that's my rant :) . Peter

[ScuRoo]

Just to update on continuing reliability - my V65TT is still 100% running perfect.

Can easily sit unattended (no trickle) for over 6 weeks before being pulled out - choke on, hit starter button Boom!💥 engine running before even one whole second’s elapsed! Never ceases to amaze me... 👍😁
Gammatronix unit has confidently transformed my TT into an easy to live with, short legged mountain goat!

Pirelli MT43 on rear adds more comfortable traction like caterpillar tracks - on Velcro! 🐐🐛

[jacksonracingcomau]

A word of warning  from an old git
These were about in 1970’s, very naively I bought one for my new Le Mans in 78 or 79, of course it already ran perfectly, unlike you I had no problem to fix.
It achieved squat except misfired when the gizmo got wet
I’m sure yours is water proof, mine was simply an automotive one sold for bikes
But
All you’ve done is take the caps out, the main issues of wear are the heel of points and the auto advance sticking.
So maintenance issues are unchanged.
Unlike full electronic ignition which does away with points and automatic  advance unit
However , problems with modern caps and even orig SB ones means you have gained something, the transcaps in your other link would achieve same result. Friends in uk use similar electronic condensers with good results, , much cheaper than your kit but fortunately I have stock of original BB Marelli condensors to live me out,
I fitted these to my SB and it has run faultlessly for a couple of years, yes, starts instantly as all coil ignition vehicles do.
Then the other day, this happened




It pissed me off so I fitted BB points plate, problem won’t come back, I have no idea why SB points have no retaining circlip , the only thing keeping them in line is spring, which cried enough.
This worth doing if you want to run points on SB

[Stevex]

  So tell  us all here , how much time do you think you ride on the retarded ignition timing ?
  Okay enough of the smart ass remarks , Full advance timing is truly worth the effort to set,
  no guessing or wondering , and once the marks are set , you're good to go with whatever
  you plan to do (with ignitions) in the future , that's my rant :) . Peter

Hmm...

Ideally the machine will be started, warmed up and the the timing adjusted so it's spot on at full advance which is achieved somewhere over 3,000 RPM with a strobe. At the end of the day this is not bloody worth it on a road Guzzi, not only does it annoy the neighbors but everything inside a Guzzi motor thrashes about so wildly and inacurrately it simply isn't worth fussing with. Time it statically, don't forget to dob some grease on the heels of the points for lubrication, slap the lid on and ride off into the sunset.

by Pete Roper

I'd like to have read this a few weeks ago, prior to setting up the points to full advanced timing. It would be interesting to see just how the bike runs on static timing.
I have to say, setting the advance up is not a totally pleasant experience, holding the engine at 4k revs in neutral for long enough to see the painted advance marks dancing around the set up datum, but I got decently close in the end.

[moto-uno]

I stick with my original remarks , the other fellows remarks smack of simple laziness ( hey we're human) .If the timing
is not reasonably smooth watching it with the light , then there's a good chance all is not right with the unit . This is
simply not visible with static timing . Plus , and this is a big plus , not everyone is that excellent at static timing , believe
me I've certainly seen enough of that after 4 decades as a m/c mechanic ! But hey it's your bike and if it runs well enough ,
who gives a crap about what others say  . Peter

[ScuRoo]

I’m under the impression it’s an amplifier. Everything remains as stock - only the little condensers were removed while the points where retained as triggers. In case you missed the manufacturer’s description previously linked I’ll past approx 90% of it - click on link for remainder which also has added installation description. I’m more than happy to stand corrected on the difference in various ignition approaches - but am 100% extremely satisfied considering total cost, easy simplicity and ultimately, the boosted, better spark performing points trigger thingymajig...
But then again Gammatronix sounds a bit sexy & with those blinky little lights - phwoarrr!! 👍😎


Pasted:
Older motocycles can take advantage of this new device's fast, high output nature, by adding this technology between their existing  coil and points – you keep the points, remove  the condenser, and get points that can last up to 50,000 miles and a big output from your coil.

Retaining your bike's original points setup, running at very low current, makes them last far far longer (up to 50K miles) while making this unit really easy to fit as no model specific sensors and rotor changes are required.

The Gammatronix PowerDriver Magnum is a dual unit, that can operate TWO coils from TWO sets of points as commonly found on twin cylinder bike engines. Each part of the module operates independently of the other for maximum reliability.

(If you have a single cylinder bike, see our Ebay shop for the even more compact single channel system)

The Gammatronix PowerDriver contains all its control electronics in a compact assembly just 65mm wide, 20mm tall and 85mm long. This small unit can be mounted  near to your existing coils or any other convenient mounting point.

Just four wires to connect for each 'half' of the module– red power, black  ground, then snip the wire from your points to your coil and connect the points side to the PowerDriver's blue wire and the coil side to the PowerDriver's yellow output wire.

PowerDriver gives you a control system that collapses the flux in your coil in millionths of a second to create a fat, precise, well timed spark that doesnt vary with arcing across the points, or alter over time due to spark erosion.


How Does It Work?

Conventional coil and points based systems on older bikes  suffer from several disadvantages due to system inefficiencies.

The presence of the condenser, sparking at the points and slow coil  "magnetic flux dump" time of a conventional ignition system leads to a less than optimal output from the coil. The physics are that the faster the coil primary voltage disconnects, (leading to a rapid collapse of stored inductive flux in the coil) the higher the peak voltage output of the coil will be.

The Gammatronix PowerDriver Magnum Ignition eliminates the inefficiencies in your ignition system  by charging the coil rapidly and dumping the stored coil primary flux FAST to make a bigger, better, more precisely timed spark.
 

Is It Right For My Bike?

It is if you can say YES to the following questions :

1. My Bike has a standard coil and points and condenser ignition powered from the battery with TWO coils and TWO points - one for each cylinder

2. My Bike doesnt have a magneto operated ignition typical of pre 1960s bikes (spark comes from the magneto -  Lucas or similar - rather than a battery powered coil)

3. My Bike has a 12v electrical system

4. My Bike has the battery negative terminal connected to the chassis (negative earth)


The Gammatronix PowerDriver MAGNUM Module comes in negative earth only, and as a 6v or 12v model

https://gammatronixltd.com/epages/bae94c71-c5b6-4572-89a1-e89006e78fbe.mobile/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/bae94c71-c5b6-4572-89a1-e89006e78fbe/Products/NewTwinC-12VNEG

[sign216]

ScuRoo,

You are right, my mistake.  I deleted my message so as to not pollute the internet with any more bad info.

[ScuRoo]

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/ignition-debate-points-vs-pertronix/amp/

Gammatronix & Pertonix seem similar - Gammatronix just less cost. Point ahem, of posting article is highlighting points vs amplifiers debate.