I love my 250 but I want a tiny bit more and Guzzi is in the running....

[Tom]

Check this one out.  Older but...        https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=106151.0

[agdrache]

Check this one out.  Older but...        https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=106151.0

Thanks, but carbs are a dealbreaker and ABS is something I want

[n3303j]

For a few dollars you can add an electronic tachometer to any bike you buy.

[agdrache]

For a few dollars you can add an electronic tachometer to any bike you buy.

I'm aware, but I'd much rather have a needle than an LCD

[n3303j]

I'm aware, but I'd much rather have a needle than an LCD

See the Speedhut website.
https://www.speedhut.com/

[SmithSwede]

Some thoughts.  I’m like you in that I value a light bike, the “bicycle with an engine” feel.   And you seem to care about aesthetics.   Mostly solo use. 

I’m a dedicated motorcycle rider—I don’t do cars.  I have been running a V7 Stone just about every day since I got it for Christmas 2013.  My work commute is 100 miles round trip.  I routinely take the Guzzi on long trips all over Texas, and on long distance road trips.   It’s probably my favorite bike after 40 years of riding.    And it has phenomenal “machine beauty,” to borrow David Gelernter’s cogent phrase.   

Don’t fear the shaft drive.  For yearly commuting, especially in Boston, a shaft is a great thing to have.  The Guzzi is easy to maintain and very intuitive.  Valve adjustments are a snap.  And if you have an issue, this splendid forum can help you get it sorted. 

The Guzzi has just enough power to do anything *reasonable* on a public highway.   It will cruise fine at 85 mph all day.    You can also easily fit excellent Hepco-Becker hard saddlebags, in 30 or 40 liter sizes, and the bike looks good with them.  These come in handy for the dedicated motorcycle commuter.   I can’t recommend the V7 more highly. 

Now.  All that being said.   I also have a 2012 Kawasaki 250 Ninja (carbs).   I’ve really enjoyed that bike as well, other than the looks.    I’ve commuted on it plenty, and took lots of long multi-state road trips.  You just need to get used to cruising all day at 10,000 rpm.  The more modern Ninja 300s are considerably more powerful, and have fuel injection and ABS.   

So if you really like the “bicycle with an engine feel” and relish a sporty ride on twisty roads, I’d take a hard look at a little Ninja.  Bulletproof.  Cheap.   Highly capable.  Superb braking and handling. 

Sorry, no info on Royal Enfields.

[agdrache]

Another question I just remembered: the TU250X is known for running cool. How does the V7 fare in stop & go rush hour city traffic?

[SmithSwede]

Another question I just remembered: the TU250X is known for running cool. How does the V7 fare in stop & go rush hour city traffic?

Not an issue.   The V7s handle stop and go traffic in the Texas heat just fine.  And importantly, they don’t transfer the waste heat onto you, the rider.   I’ve had plenty of bikes that did that, making summer stop and go traffic miserable.  My Yamaha FJR was horrible in that regard. 

[s1120]

Not an issue.   The V7s handle stop and go traffic in the Texas heat just fine.  And importantly, they don’t transfer the waste heat onto you, the rider.   I’ve had plenty of bikes that did that, making summer stop and go traffic miserable.  My Yamaha FJR was horrible in that regard.

Ya, people always ask me when im on my California if it gets real hot having those cylinders hanging out in front of my legs. Its strange becouse you would think it would, but I have never felt any hot air at all. I tell you though, at stop lights in cold weather, ts nice to have those heads sticking out as a hand warmer!!! 

[Bulldog9]

Another question I just remembered: the TU250X is known for running cool. How does the V7 fare in stop & go rush hour city traffic?

I do it in DC, not an issue, maybe a bit of slight pinging when really hot, but it cools down quickly when moving. I have a dipstick thermometer and temps peak at 160c or 320f. Hotter than I'd like, but running proper full synthetic oil is fine. I do a 3k oil change, and 6k oil & filter only because of the commuter duties. As others say, engine doesn't cook you.

[Lannis]

Can't give specific answers, not being a V7 or RE owner, but as someone who started out riding a 250 everywhere for years and later moved to larger bikes ...

... I sense that you are on the right track and analyzing this thing intelligently.

50 years on from my first 200cc road bike, if I were going straight from there to here, knowing what I know now, solo riding, I'd pick the Guzzi V7-III in my choice of trim.   Nothing that it won't do!

Lannis

I still think you're on the right track, but you are veering toward the muddy bog of "overthinking" and "overspecifying" your choice .... Be careful that you don't miss the silver dollar while trying to pick up a nickel.

Good luck!

Lannis

[JohninVT]

The TU250 is a wonderful bike.  I've put thousands of miles on one.  It's the motorcycling experience distilled to its' purest form. 

The III is better but it's not leaps and bounds better than the II.  IMHO there's a bigger difference between I and II than there is II and III.  The V7 would fit all your needs.  So would the RE and I'm not sure why you haven't mentioned it but the Bonneville is a good bike too.  All three have classic looks, plenty of power for commuting in Boston and are comfortable enough to have a friend hop on the back and take a weekend trip to Maine or the White Mountains. 

I realize buying a bike is a big decision and you're doing a lot of research.  That's great.  Some of the things you're asking about have multiple solutions and aren't that big of a deal.  A Fenda Extenda is 30 bucks.  Any handlebar mounted windscreen will fit any of the three bikes I mentioned.  National Cycle probably has at least a dozen to choose from.  A tach isn't as important as you might think on a twin.  The TU has a flat torque delivery that puts out power...until it doesn't.  Twins will let you know when they need to be shifted.  The curve is actually a curve.  Power will begin to drop off if you wait to shift.  Within a week you know every shift point by sound and feel.  Going to a six speed from a five, you might find that a gear indicator becomes more important than a tachometer.  It's also very nice to have a dash temperature gauge if you commute year round.  The Guzzi has a snowflake warning light when temps get to the freezing point.  LED lights are absolutely worth it and so is ABS.  All of the steel grates and manhole covers on city streets are a lot less dangerous when you know it's near 32 degrees and you have ABS.   

While not as classically styled, the Honda CB650R might meet your needs as well.  Its' performance envelope is twice that of the RE, Guzzi or Bonneville but it has a Honda reliability and quality.  It has a version of traction control, ABS, LED lighting and radial mount brakes.  Pricing is similar to the Guzzi and Bonneville.     

[Tom]

Agdrache wants:  1)  tachometer  2)  ABS  3)  V7III styling  4)  low corrosion because outside storage.  Looks like unobtanium to me.

[agdrache]

While not as classically styled, the Honda CB650R might meet your needs as well.  Its' performance envelope is twice that of the RE, Guzzi or Bonneville but it has a Honda reliability and quality.  It has a version of traction control, ABS, LED lighting and radial mount brakes.  Pricing is similar to the Guzzi and Bonneville.     

If I were gonna go with something like that, the CB300R would be more likely, but I sat on one recently and wasn't really enamored with it. It didn't strike me as something that'd be comfortable to be on all day, and it's too modern-looking to be an only bike for me and my tastes.

[agdrache]

Agdrache wants:  1)  tachometer  2)  ABS  3)  A motorcycle that looks like a motorcycle  4)  low corrosion because outside storage. 

Fixed your #3


The tach is negotiable if I can be convinced that it's not needed, but it's definitely something I want. The shift lights and gear indicator *might* be sufficient, but that amount of tech is also one of the things I'm not as into with the V7s....but damn they're sexy. The off-center single gauge bothers me more than the lack of a tach 

[moto]

I've test-ridden a TU250 and own a v-twin Italjet/SSR Buccaneer 250i Cafe, which is a tiny bit more powerful and definitely has that bicycle feeling of lightness. I don't think it is what you want, though, because it too has trouble on the highways.

I second Smithswede's recommendation of a Ninja 250 or 300. I had one of the former. It's much more capable of highway commuting and sporting use.

I strongly recommend test rides before you buy, if you really want that bicycle feeling. I don't think you'll find it in a 750 after having gotten used to a 250.

What I'd really like is a 350 v-twin Buccaneer, but that falls in a gap in the market that won't be filled soon.

Moto

[agdrache]

I've test-ridden a TU250 and own a v-twin Italjet/SSR Buccaneer 250i Cafe, which is a tiny bit more powerful and definitely has that bicycle feeling of lightness. I don't think it is what you want, though, because it too has trouble on the highways.

I second Smithswede's recommendation of a Ninja 250 or 300. I had one of the former. It's much more capable of highway commuting and sporting use.

I strongly recommend test rides before you buy, if you really want that bicycle feeling. I don't think you'll find it in a 750 after having gotten used to a 250.

What I'd really like is a 350 v-twin Buccaneer, but that falls in a gap in the market that won't be filled soon.

Moto

I've sat on the Ninja 300 but it was before I got a bike. I recently sat on a CB300R and a Ducati Scrambler Sixty2 though, and if those are anything to go by, I don't think I'd find the Ninja comfortable for all-day riding. Being stuck in a spot that only really allows for one position doesn't seem great, plus the high tail on sportbikes and modern naked bikes is annoying. I already have enough difficulty when my tailbag is on the full side on a relatively flat seat, I don't need that magnified with a tail section that I already somewhat struggle to swing my leg over.

Plus (and this matters), I don't like how it looks.

[agdrache]

I would like to clarify that I'm not looking for suggestions of other options. I'm trying to figure out if the V7 series makes sense to be looking at for what I want from a motorcycle, and people who also have experience with the TU250X and/or the new-ish Royal Enfield 650 twins are the most helpful.

[Kev m]

Fixed your #3


The tach is negotiable if I can be convinced that it's not needed, but it's definitely something I want. The shift lights and gear indicator *might* be sufficient, but that amount of tech is also one of the things I'm not as into with the V7s....but damn they're sexy. The off-center single gauge bothers me more than the lack of a tach 

What tech are you talking about? If lack of ABS is a deal-breaker, there's no "tech" on a V7 II or III that you wouldn't be getting on anything else.

I can't compare the V7 to a TU or RE for you. Buy the one you like the most.

That said, I'm completely smitten with our V7s and think one would work for you.

I DO think there's a pretty big difference between the I or II and the III, but coming of a TU I suspect you'd be fine with any of them (though on the II and III have ABS).

[fotoguzzi]

You say you want a "tiny bit more" have you checked out a KTM 390 Duke? Just throwing that out there.

[Lannis]

You say you want a "tiny bit more" have you checked out a KTM 390 Duke? Just throwing that out there.

If a Guzzi Breva 750 doesn't "look like a motorcycle", then a KTM 390 dam sho' don't!   

Lannis

[PeteS]

KTMS may not look like a motorcycle, whatever that means, but they are the most bicycle like of all the bikes mentioned so far and that includes the 650s and 690 KTMs. Fun, fun, fun.

Pete

[Tom]

I would like to clarify that I'm not looking for suggestions of other options. I'm trying to figure out if the V7 series makes sense to be looking at for what I want from a motorcycle, and people who also have experience with the TU250X and/or the new-ish Royal Enfield 650 twins are the most helpful.

[/size][/size][/b]

He doesn't want alternatives or suggestions.  Stuff it you guys.   

[bad Chad]

Yes to your question on a v7.   The best thing you could do is arrange to ride one and see how hit feels.

[agdrache]

You say you want a "tiny bit more" have you checked out a KTM 390 Duke? Just throwing that out there.

I have not, but the Husqvarna Svartpilen 401 has caught my eye, which is basically the same thing with different bodywork. That said, it doesn't seem like a practical option for me, and at only 5'6", the seat height is a bit too much (based on sitting on a friend's Vitpilen 701).

Here's the thing: Realistically, I'm pretty sure I'd be happy with something in the 400-500 CC range. The problem is that there aren't many options in that bracket that do what I want.

Yamaha SR400 looks great and is supposedly a great bike and a nice step up from the TU250X, but it doesn't have an electric start. That doesn't seem like it'd be much fun to have to kick it every time I want to start it, when it's my everyday transportation.

Genuine G400C looks cheap up close and those side covers are wide and pointy. Not comfortable to sit on with feet on the ground (think stop & go traffic), and I think I maybe had some difficulty getting more than just a toe down on both sides.

Royal Enfield Classic 500 looks great and would be the first thing I'd look at if it didn't have the same max speed as my current bike.

Other than that, everything that looks good is significantly higher displacement (Royal Enfield Interceptor 650, Moto Guzzi V7 series, Triumph Street Twin (way too big at almost 900CC!)) or is too old to have fuel injection, or both. Everything in that same one-step-up displacement category (300-500 CC) is too modern-looking and/or has liquid cooling, which is added complexity that doesn't appeal to me as someone who does as much as possible of their own maintenance.

[agdrache]

What tech are you talking about? If lack of ABS is a deal-breaker, there's no "tech" on a V7 II or III that you wouldn't be getting on anything else.

I can't compare the V7 to a TU or RE for you. Buy the one you like the most.

That said, I'm completely smitten with our V7s and think one would work for you.

I DO think there's a pretty big difference between the I or II and the III, but coming of a TU I suspect you'd be fine with any of them (though on the II and III have ABS).

I have mixed feelings on the tech thing. ABS and traction control both seem like they would be useful additions for year-round commuting. What I don't like is that traction control means throttle by wire instead of purely mechanical. I also don't like how many flashing lights are on the dash, and I don't like the LCD screen. Give me two analogue gauges with a mechanical odometer and trip meter!

Stuff like that turns me off because I'm mechanically inclined, and more tech means less stuff that I can fix myself when it breaks.

[mhershon]

It occurred to me as I watched you paint yourself into a smaller and smaller corner that you're a perfect customer for a big scooter! No worries about an exposed exhaust system to maintain in your awful winters, fuel injection, fine ABS brakes and perhaps a tach even though there's really no use for one because the thing just finds the right gear for you. Super popular with year 'round riders in Europe, lots of storage space under the seat, and you won't be parking some iconic Italian thoroughbred outside all year. A nice 400 Yamaha would be sweet...and it'd do everything you'd like...and you could get both feet on the ground, I'll bet. Ideal for a practical young man like your worthy self, sir.

[Dirk_S]

I have mixed feelings on the tech thing. ABS and traction control both seem like they would be useful additions for year-round commuting. What I don't like is that traction control means throttle by wire instead of purely mechanical. I also don't like how many flashing lights are on the dash, and I don't like the LCD screen. Give me two analogue gauges with a mechanical odometer and trip meter!

Stuff like that turns me off because I'm mechanically inclined, and more tech means less stuff that I can fix myself when it breaks.

Unfortunately there aren’t enough folks in the western world wanting super-simple, light-to-mid-size motorcycles to make the major manufacturers trust putting that product out. The western world is a very critical one, always with something to complain about, and with the competitors quick to read and react. The simple bikes exist in parts of Europe and certainly Asia as new, and there are other various factors creating this varying desire and dynamic. Regardless, I don’t know of any modern naked standard existing in the 400cc-500cc, putting out more than 30 hp with fuel injectors, electric start, but rocking otherwise a less-is-better attitude. If there were, I wouldn’t have bought my Guzzi V7, because my taste is quite similar to yours. The V7 is lighter than the Interceptor, Kawasaki W800, BMW R9T, Triumph, but it’s still over 440 lb fully loaded, and you’ll feel it,  possibly enough to bother you. There are ways to lighten the load a tad, as I did by going lithium in my battery, replacing the heavy plastic mudguards with aluminum, and getting an aftermarket exhaust, but it’s still certainly weightier than a 250cc thumper.

If you really want just a step up from the Suzuki, and are mechanically inclined, then I may recommend either looking at lesser-known Asian or European bikes, or searching for a vintage Honda/Suzuki/Yamaha/Kawasaki (or Guzzi!) in that desired engine range; they just won’t be fuel-injected or come with ABS/traction control, and may require a little bit of fixing to get them back on their feet. There are a plethora of these older, midsize bikes floating around, waiting for a patient and careful owner to get them back to running like new, and that may tickle the fancy of keeping it simple, but as one who enjoys riding everyday over wrenching every other day, I personally like my fuel-injected machine as my primary rider, despite it being 30 pounds heavier than preferred.

And again, the Guzzi engine is indeed special. Don’t forget, you can get completely different gauges that feature nothing but the basic. You can get a lowered seat. That’s the beauty of customization, and Guzzis are a great bike to customize.

[Bulldog9]

I have mixed feelings on the tech thing. ABS and traction control both seem like they would be useful additions for year-round commuting. What I don't like is that traction control means throttle by wire instead of purely mechanical. I also don't like how many flashing lights are on the dash, and I don't like the LCD screen. Give me two analogue gauges with a mechanical odometer and trip meter!

Stuff like that turns me off because I'm mechanically inclined, and more tech means less stuff that I can fix myself when it breaks.

The V7 does not have throttle by wire.

[bad Chad]

The v7 series doesn’t have throttle by wire,  it’s old fashioned cable.  The traction control can be turned off with the push of a button.