Author Topic: Recommending a used Norge over a new BMW RT (Read 3068 times)

willowstreetguzziguy · « **on:** July 19, 2020, 02:45:57 PM »

A good riding buddy bought a new Triumph 1200 Bonneville last year while living in SE Penna. This summer he moved to Arizona and, due to the extreme summer heat, is considering also buying a new BMW 1250 RT (and keeping the Triumph) to keep the blast of heat off him and he’ll probably go on some overnight trips with his wife on the back. He is not mechanically inclined and uses the dealer for maintenance. Knowing all the gadgets and electric gizmos that the 2020 RT has and BMW’s ranking of a low of 9 out of 10 brands for reliability, he will probably get an extended warranty and end up paying ~$26k+ when it’s all said and done.

So my thoughts are.... since he has a dealer in town, why not at least look into a slightly used MG Norge and maybe test ride one.? I have a 1200 sport and I know the newer Norges are the four valve heads. I know the Norge has less power than the RT, So my questions are ...

1. As far as riding and comfort, how does the Norge compare to the RT?
2. How much less protection does the Norge faring offer compared to an RT faring?
3.When did the four valve head Norge begin?
4. What years should he avoid looking at?
5. What price range would be good for a newer Norge, with low mileage, sell for?
6. Do the newer Norges have cruise control?

Any other thoughts on comparing the Norge to the 2020 BMW RT. What type of rider would Choose a used Norge over a new BMW RT?

TN Mark · « **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2020, 03:08:55 PM »

Is your friend who’s considering spending $26K on a new BMW to keep the heat blast off and take his wife for a ride open to a MG Norge?

LowRyter · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2020, 03:19:42 PM »

The RT wins on all counts other than $$$$$$$$$$$$$. Great bike. Much more features. The Norge is more into RS class IMO but the RS is cutting edge whereas the Norge is long in the tooth. Really, not fair to compare a Norge to new bike.

blackcat · « **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2020, 03:32:00 PM »

If he goes for the RT make sure he gets the extended warranty or he could end up buying a late model used Norge for what it cost to fix some of the more complicated things on those bikes.

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2020, 03:33:08 PM »

You could have a stable of Norges for 26 thousand freakin dollars! <snapping suspenders>

LowRyter · « **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2020, 03:37:14 PM »

willowstreetguzziguy · « **Reply #6 on:** July 19, 2020, 04:28:09 PM »

Quote from: TN Mark on July 19, 2020, 03:08:55 PM

Is your friend who’s considering spending $26K on a new BMW to keep the heat blast off and take his wife for a ride open to a MG Norge?

Open to a Norge? Not sure. Just thought it might be interesting for him to ride one and consider.

Perazzimx14 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2020, 05:19:24 PM »

Unless you friend is asking for advise on a new bike its probably best to let him pick and choose what he wants.

To me the RT is not a good choice because it will do exactly what he wants and keep hot air from washing over him. The problem is he'll be sittign in a bubble fo super heated air that is not moving. I'd rather have hot air blowing over me than sitting in a stagnant bubble.

I took a GSA out yesterday and the extra wind protection fromt the tank and the larger wind screen had me heating up and sweating a lot faster than on a standarg GS with a narrower tank and smaller windscreen. The GSA will be welcome once the mercury drops come fall, until then its not getting many miles.

Travlr · « **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2020, 05:44:33 PM »

After he's been here 24 months he's not going to think it is "extreme heat." It's 112 today and I just came back from playing 18 holes of golf. What he thinks is extreme heat his first summer is not what he will think extreme heat is after he's been here.

Having said that a fairing bike is a pretty good idea in Arizona for a variety of reasons.

1. Unlike Pa. he's going to be riding year round. In winter mornings will be in the 40's and a fairing and heated grips feels good.

2. A fairing is also a good idea when going to the White Mountains or Mogollon Rim. It's really frosty up there even in the summer. My buddy lives in a million dollar home in Flagstaff and doesn't have central air.

3. Distances out here are long and fast. I-10 going east or west starts at 80 mph and goes up. You just don't want to ride a naked
bike across the Mojave or West Texas. It will beat you to death.

In short, a fairing bike is a good idea in Arizona. I wouldn't buy another BMW, but that's a personal opinion.

Mike

inditx · « **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2020, 05:45:16 PM »

I’d recommend he at least try a Triumph Trophy SE, they are splendid 2 up touring machines.
inditx

Guzzidad · « **Reply #10 on:** July 19, 2020, 05:54:14 PM »

I have a 2012 Norge, and I let someone test ride it 2-up. After the test ride the girlfriend said no way. The passenger sits up higher than the driver putting way more wind on the passenger. Also, no cruise control. That's why more people choose the Stelvio over the Norge for 2-up. The BMW RT has much better weather protection. After all that, I love my Norge.

Perazzimx14 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 19, 2020, 06:07:38 PM »

Quote from: Travlr on July 19, 2020, 05:44:33 PM

After he's been here 24 months he's not going to think it is "extreme heat." It's 112 today and I just came back from playing 18 holes of golf. What he thinks is extreme heat his first summer is not what he will think extreme heat is after he's been here.

Having said that a fairing bike is a pretty good idea in Arizona for a variety of reasons.

1. Unlike Pa. he's going to be riding year round. In winter mornings will be in the 40's and a fairing and heated grips feels good.

2. A fairing is also a good idea when going to the White Mountains or Mogollon Rim. It's really frosty up there even in the summer. My buddy lives in a million dollar home in Flagstaff and doesn't have central air.

3. Distances out here are long and fast. I-10 going east or west starts at 80 mph and goes up. You just don't want to ride a naked
bike across the Mojave or West Texas. It will beat you to death.

In short, a fairing bike is a good idea in Arizona. I wouldn't buy another BMW, but that's a personal opinion.

Mike

Uh we ride year around in Pennsylvania too

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #12 on:** July 19, 2020, 06:26:34 PM »

I've had my fill of Bring More Wallets. "Zere is nothing wrong with dis machine! Zay are the finest engineered machines in zee vorld! That will be $2000 please.."
Just how many kool Guzzis could I have for 26 large? Let me start counting..

LongRanger · « **Reply #13 on:** July 19, 2020, 06:33:54 PM »

If he’s truly interested in an RT, there are lots of clean ‘15 - ‘16 - ‘17 - ‘18 R1200RT’s around for about half that $26k. My ‘15 is awesome.

Nick · « **Reply #14 on:** July 19, 2020, 06:48:50 PM »

A new RT any day. Just came back from a little 200 mile ride, 94 deg. here in Jersey and riding the Norge was unbearable. Even on the interstate the heat from the bike was unbelievable.

LowRyter · « **Reply #15 on:** July 19, 2020, 06:56:12 PM »

Motormike · « **Reply #16 on:** July 19, 2020, 06:58:10 PM »

I believe new BMW motorcycles come with a 3 year/36,000 mile warranty. If he has the money to buy a new one, just ride it three years and sell or trade. No need to waste money on an extended warrenty unless he keeps his bikes for a long time.

Tkelly · « **Reply #17 on:** July 19, 2020, 09:16:51 PM »

There is a new Norge at Dunn’s Imports in Madison WI for 11000.

kingoffleece · « **Reply #18 on:** July 19, 2020, 10:17:04 PM »

I de-listed my Norge last week as it got over 200 views and not even an insult of an offer.
Like another stated, it's simply too hot a motorcycle to ride in full summer, even in Buffalo, NY. That trait, however, is most welcomed every Nov in WV and late may/early June in New England.

Others I know with a Norge don't seem as washed out by the bike's heat as I am. It is what it is. And no matter what I refuse to pay 20,000 plus for a new motorcycle. 3-5 year old RT's are not hard to find in the north east. For a heck of a lot less.

blu guzz · « **Reply #19 on:** July 20, 2020, 05:40:34 AM »

my only new bmw was a gorgous berritz blue rt in 2004. i had 2 warranty problems quickly fixed by the dealer, a leaky seal and the windshield motor. I was feeling pretty good until I started reading about all of the rear-drive failures. if you weren't into BMW at that time, it was a real thing. When my bike started to approach the end of warranty, I started getting nervous. eventually i sold the bike with 39,500 miles on it thinking that less than 40,000 would bring more money than over 40,000 and I did get a descent price. it was very highly accessorized. the last time i heard from that buyer, the bike was at 90,000 still clicking along, so what are you going to do. when you lose confidence, it is hard to start that long trip.
during my ownership, i really liked that machine. after some time away from the bmw world, i came back to get a 2003 k1200rs. i poured a fair amount of money into it only to be rewarded by a failed rear-drive at 39,500 miles - ironic isn't it. i am done with the rondel, but that is just me.

Gliderjohn · « **Reply #20 on:** July 20, 2020, 06:32:49 AM »

I have not ridden a first generation Norge but I have never felt heat to be an issue on my 8V. No cruise control however the throttle is very light. I live in central KS. Don't get as hot a AZ but humid in the 90s is common during the summer.
GliderJohn

Guzzidad · « **Reply #21 on:** July 20, 2020, 08:03:23 AM »

I don't get ANY heat off my 2012 Norge. And I'm in FL

Motormike · « **Reply #22 on:** July 20, 2020, 08:13:18 AM »

I had a 2003 K1200GT which was just an RS with cruise and an electric windshield. Heavy, but smooth. I loved that bike, and had it accessorized perfictly for me. But when I retired, I was in a bit of a panic thinking I'd need cash, and sold it. I've regretted it ever since. Low milage "flying bricks" have become almost impossible to find. So I picked up a lightly used BMW R1200gs as my primary touring bike. All the gadgets can spoil you. I particularly like the tire pressure monitor feature. With the wonder wheel on the left grip, you can pull all the data up on the Garmin GPS screen right in front of you. No problems yet, but like anyone that's owned a BMW, I'm aware of all the many issues that could bankrupt me!

The latest are soft cams that weren't properly heat treated. So I pulled the valve covers...mine are fine at 20K...whew! It's about a $2000 dollar repair. Break My Wallet indeed.

PJPR01 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 20, 2020, 08:39:11 AM »

Have had my 2008 Norge for 11 years now, riding in extreme heat here in Texas and on mega trips and other than a few cases of stop and go traffic, never felt any concern about the heat. I think some folks may feel the heat more due to thinner riding pants or keeping the knees to close to the heads, but when moving, have never had any issues at all.

I've rented a BMW RT for a weekend a few years ago in California and rode it up and down Highway 1 for a total of about 600 miles, and it's a very competent bike, but interestingly enough, almost too smooth compared to the Norge. I would say that the riding experience is not worth paying $26K vs. $10K, for that difference, save the money for staying at some nice hotels or maybe a little bit of customizing for the Norge. The additional gadgets that the BMW has are nice, if that's the main driver for buying the bike, but if you add in the built in GPS or the "wheel", that doesn't add up to the price difference.

The other thing I didn't particularly like is (maybe just me) I like to stretch my legs forward from time to time, and with the Norge your knees don't hit the cylinder heads when doing so, while on the BMW you're cracking your shins on the "saggy" cylinders.

Frankly, if BMW is more appealing than Guzzi, I'd search for a slightly used one with low miles if available, and save some, but it doesn't really make sense to pay $26k...the ROI on that doesn't make sense unless you want complete "hands off", peace of mind, dealer warranty coverage with no engagement.

My wife has ridden many miles on the back of the Norge, and seat comfort and a back rest are critical for long term enjoyment, but no wind buffetting or comfort concerns besides that. I think if the pillion is going to be a constant rider, getting that sorted with the right seat, sheep skin cover or other are critical too...but I don't know how the BMW compares in that aspect.

Perazzimx14 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 20, 2020, 08:57:38 AM »

I always like how the answeres can be provided to the question that was not asked.

kingoffleece · « **Reply #25 on:** July 20, 2020, 09:41:37 AM »

yep. Conversations tend to go that way.
For the record-I never found the heads hot-no warm legs per say. It's the heat coming off the lower front where the "bag" is. I find it unbearable in summer. I wish dearly I could report like the owners who say it's not an issue for them.

The first gen Tiger 800's were the same way. TONS of heat off the lower right side of the motor. A deal breaker for some we offered test rides to-others did not seem to mind. I've never been able to fathom why some are aware of the heat and others not.

blackcat · « **Reply #26 on:** July 20, 2020, 10:49:32 AM »

Quote from: kingoffleece on July 20, 2020, 09:41:37 AM

It's the heat coming off the lower front where the "bag" is. I find it unbearable in summer. I wish dearly I could report like the owners who say it's not an issue for them.

My 07 is hot in the summer and I rarely ride it unless it's for a long trip and I'm headed to cooler areas of the country.

I always thought it was related to the oil cooler location and how it funnels the heat to the rider and have considered getting the oil cooler from a Stelvio which locates it lower on the engine front. Maybe some day. I even installed the later head shields but it's still very hot, so I just ride one of the other bikes when the temps/humidity go above 85.

With the later model head shields:

Motormike · « **Reply #27 on:** July 20, 2020, 02:31:56 PM »

Quote from: Perazzimx14 on July 20, 2020, 08:57:38 AM

I always like how the answeres can be provided to the question that was not asked.

The inability to focus. Comes with old age.

blackcat · « **Reply #28 on:** July 20, 2020, 03:53:09 PM »

One of the original questions:
“He is not mechanically inclined...”

He shouldn’t buy a Guzzi.

“Any other thoughts on comparing the Norge to the 2020 BMW RT.”

The two valve Norge can be very hot in the summer, and I would speculate that it is especially hot on those bikes in Arizona.

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #29 on:** July 20, 2020, 03:56:28 PM »

Quote

“He is not mechanically inclined...”

He shouldn’t buy a Guzzi.

End of story. Nothing to see here, folks.. move along.

News:

Author Topic: Recommending a used Norge over a new BMW RT (Read 3068 times)