California 1100 or a Used Sportster for Daily Ride/Tourer?

[LowRyter]

The EV models have tubeless spoke wheels.  Some models require tubes.  Many run Metzler 880 and get really good mileage. 

[Kev m]

Low is right and I wouldn't let tires make your decision. You CAN get tubeless wheels and you can find decent tires in appropriate sizes for a Cali.

There are at least 4 WG members that have done that , and a couple of guys that don't have pooters who have done the trick . Hell , memory says the Turnip has done the feat on 2 or 3 Guzzis .

 Dusty

To be clear, I'm not doubting they exist. I'm just pointing out the lack of coming across them doesn't mean they don't exist. It just means they may run in a different  demographic.

[LowRyter]

Low is right and I wouldn't let tires make your decision. You CAN get tubeless wheels and you can find decent tires in appropriate sizes for a Cali.

To be clear, I'm not doubting they exist. I'm just pointing out the lack of coming across them doesn't mean they don't exist. It just meanss tthey may run in a different  demographic.

Dusty's got 100k+ on his Jackal.   It needs tail lights.

[Castorp]

Thanks to you both. When I searched for the 880, I was finding the JP-Revzilla-Cyclegear conglomerate was all out of stock--but searching deeper i'm finding it other places. I wonder if the virus has held up supply lines. 

[oldbike54]

Dusty's got 100k+ on his Jackal.   It needs tail lights.

 150,000

 Dusty

[Dave_NWTrophy]

I just put Michelin Pilot Activs on my 2003 Cal Titanium, no issues finding the right size.  Tubes are required with the wheels I have.  Cycle Gear got the tires, and was able to do the mount & balance.

Dave

[Blaufeld66]

Just my two cents:

1 - My 2003 Cali EV has tubeless, both front and rear, Michelin brand. I've done about 14.000km with them, no handling prob and still with 2mm thread on them.

2 - Stand out of the crowd: buy a Guzzi.

[Rough Edge racing]

In the end all things mechanical can be problematic . Either bike properly sorted will give good service .

 Oddly enough , the Guzzi will have a less sanitized feel to it than a modern Sportster , for all of the mythology surrounding Harley Davidson , how the MoCo has been the builder of raw motorbikes that are extremely visceral , the newer Harley Davidsons are really kinda tame . The Guzzi will feel more connected to you , more mechanical feeling , like it's something alive . The rubber mount Sportsters are reliable machines , but they won't speak to you like an old big block Moto Guzzi .

 Just my .02 ,










 Dusty

You all may remember a few years ago I bought a 2001 Sportster. It was a lower mileage bike that needed some minor repairs.  I disliked the mid foot controls so made decent rear sets, Koni rear shocks, fiddled  with the front suspension, tuned the engine and a two into one Supertrapp exhaust.The changes made the bike a good ride on back roads. The rigid mount engine heavy vibration came on just over 65 mph. I tried really hard hard to like the bike but it had that subtle Harley numbness. It's  hard to describe and perhaps just me but it was similar to the Shovelheads I owned in the past...
 

[s1120]

A question I have about the california... It does influence my choice. Tires.   I keep reading, and I'm having a hard time figuring out what type tires these bikes use on the rear. I see spoked wheels and I think: tubes. But some seem to be tubeless spoked wheels and others are not. And for the rear tire I am finding a limited selection in that size.(bridgestone and kendas) And I'm not sure all of those will work with tubes (if indeed the bike requires tube tires).  And then I find that some of these tires even in the right size don't clear the shaft and won't work.. And then I read some people use a slighly different sized tire for various reasons... The one I hope to see this week is an 02 california stone...... Is tire choice and issue with this bike?   

Thanks again to you all.

   

OK, so having a 02 stone myself, and just putting tires on it..  OK, I think it was 01, they added a little extra room in the rear for a slightly bigger tire. A 140/80-17. That size is out there, but not as common as some. The older ones had a 130/90-17. Really they are almost the same just a tick different width. I used the older 130/90 on my 02 stone and they work great. Olenty of room, and can get a tire anywhere.  The EV model had special tubeless rims. The spokes go into the outer rim of the wheel, not the center like most. Stones, Jackals, and later Cal vintage bikes are tube type. Now you can adapt the tube type to tubeless.I did, but thats a whole different matter that has been discussed in a lot of different threads. SO dont sweat the tires..  Not a deal killer.

[Castorp]

Thanks for the tip on the Michelins!

Paul, thank you. I was wondering if a 130 would work. On the tubes.. You are saying a 02 stone with spokes does require them?  I will ask the owner when I go to see it, to be sure. Either way, tube or tubeless, I am okay with it so long as there are at least a handful of tire choices and y'all are showing me that there are--especially if I have the option of 130s too.

Dusty, earlier in this thread, I believe you said your bike didn't get a rest until 90k. What did you have to do at 90K?


 

[oldbike54]

Thanks for the tip on the Michelins!

Paul, thank you. I was wondering if a 130 would work. On the tubes.. You are saying a 02 stone with spokes does require them?  I will ask the owner when I go to see it, to be sure. Either way, tube or tubeless, I am okay with it so long as there are at least a handful of tire choices and y'all are showing me that there are--especially if I have the option of 130s too.

Dusty, earlier in this thread, I believe you said your bike didn't get a rest until 90k. What did you have to do at 90K?


 

 There is a story behind the Black Jackal , but I won't bore you with the entire tale .

 The previous owner had the bike at 90K , it required a transmission bearing so they did the clutch when they were in there .

 The '02 Stone we raffled off last year at the WG National had 94K miles and came from the same PO , it only needed steering neck bearings and a little TLC . I only rode it twice in Cedar Vale for a few miles , but it ran and handled like a new bike .

 Dusty

[s1120]

Thanks for the tip on the Michelins!

Paul, thank you. I was wondering if a 130 would work. On the tubes.. You are saying a 02 stone with spokes does require them?  I will ask the owner when I go to see it, to be sure. Either way, tube or tubeless, I am okay with it so long as there are at least a handful of tire choices and y'all are showing me that there are--especially if I have the option of 130s too.

Dusty, earlier in this thread, I believe you said your bike didn't get a rest until 90k. What did you have to do at 90K?


 

Yes stock the stone uses tubes. Just look at the rim.. if the spokes go in the center of the rim, like most motorcycles and bicycles... its the tube type rims.. the tubeless guzzy rims have the spokes going into the side of the rim.  If anything the 130 made mine handle better... but could just be the fact that a] they are new..b] I adjusted the head bearings and c] I raised the fork tubes up a little in the triples..  But all that really means that I have seen zero downsides to the smaller size. Some tell me the slightly taller 130 also corrects the speedo errors from the 140's.. But I did not check before or after so I cant say thats true.

[kidsmoke]

just to add to the sample set:

2000 Jackal
Michelin Pilot Activ's (2nd set I've run)

140/80-17 rear
110/90-18 front

Original tube rims.

on mileage, my cousin's got a G5 pushing 180K that he just did some work too.
There' a fella from Illinois, Paul, retired his California 1100 at over 300K and bought a 1400. He posted recently that he's already over 100k on it. I wanna say its a 2015. Handy Andy let go of an early carburated California, one of the rare 'LeMans Cam' bikes, with 150k or thereabouts on the clock. 

[twowheeladdict]

I currently ride a 2009 ex500. I got it 4 year ago with 5k on it, and I've put about 70K miles more on it so far and it's been a good daily ride/beater bike/pack mule for touring. My only problems with it are 1). I Hate fixing broken plastics  2) Getting to the valves for the frequent checks takes a lot of work  3) it's not the greatest for 2 up riding and finally 4) though the engine has ever given me a problem, it's gonna wear out sooner or later, and from what I understand it's not the most rebuildable of motors. (Ex riders sometimes do, but generally recommend swapping them out with salvage engines instead)     

Not sure why you have to keep fixing broken plastics unless you are dropping the bike.   

Have you considered a Kawasaki Voyager XII?  They were made through 2003 and can be had for around $3000.  Great touring bike and light enough with low enough seat height for commuting.  They have Hydraulic Valves and shaft drive so very little maintenance.  Also, many examples that have gone 300,000 miles, but you can still find some some with 50,000 miles or less on them.  You can get info at the American Voyager Association forum.

The Kawasaki Vulcan 1600 motorcycles are tried and true with hydraulic valves and shaft drive as well.  They are more the cruiser like the Guzzi and Harley you are looking at.

I found the Sportsters to be too small for my 5'!!" frame or I would definitely own a 72 model. 

[Rough Edge racing]

Not sure why you have to keep fixing broken plastics unless you are dropping the bike.   

Have you considered a Kawasaki Voyager XII?  They were made through 2003 and can be had for around $3000.  Great touring bike and light enough with low enough seat height for commuting.  They have Hydraulic Valves and shaft drive so very little maintenance.  Also, many examples that have gone 300,000 miles, but you can still find some some with 50,000 miles or less on them.  You can get info at the American Voyager Association forum.

 

The Voyager X11 specs say 790 pounds curb weight...that's light ?

[LowRyter]

150,000

 Dusty

needs tail lights

[oldbike54]

needs tail lights

 Doesn't matter when everyone is 1/2 mile behind .

 Dusty

[twowheeladdict]

The Voyager X11 specs say 790 pounds curb weight...that's light ?

Light for a touring bike.  Felt light to me.  Very low CG.  Fuel is under the seat.  Felt like riding a 750. 

[Castorp]

Thank you, Paul. Now I know how to tell when a spoke wheel uses tube or not. I needed to learn that.

And thanks for the additonal tire/mileage reports. Very encouraging.

Twowheeladdict: yes, I do drop the bike. I ride occassionally on sugar sand roads, gravel roads, mud, you name it.  so it happens. Now and then.  I also do parking lot drills to help keep skills sharp. If I get a guzzi, the first mod I will make is adding crash bars and saddle bag guards--and I will put those little doughnuts on those--and I won't expect any of it to stay shiny and nice for long.  I don't mind scratches, dents, etc. That's character.  But plastic breaks.   

Thank you, I have looked at the Voyagers but they are too heavy for me, with pegs/boards too far forward. I want to like them because of the deals but I dont' think I could sit in that position for long. 

[twowheeladdict]

Thank you, Paul. Now I know how to tell when a spoke wheel uses tube or not. I needed to learn that.

And thanks for the additonal tire/mileage reports. Very encouraging.

Twowheeladdict: yes, I do drop the bike. I ride occassionally on sugar sand roads, gravel roads, mud, you name it.  so it happens. Now and then.  I also do parking lot drills to help keep skills sharp. If I get a guzzi, the first mod I will make is adding crash bars and saddle bag guards--and I will put those little doughnuts on those--and I won't expect any of it to stay shiny and nice for long.  I don't mind scratches, dents, etc. That's character.  But plastic breaks.   

Thank you, I have looked at the Voyagers but they are too heavy for me, with pegs/boards too far forward. I want to like them because of the deals but I dont' think I could sit in that position for long.

Starting to sound like you need an adventure style bike.  For drop guards, take a look at T-Rex Racing out of Texas.  Solid protection with replaceable contact points.  Those guards might help you choose one of the bikes they make guards for, like the Versys.  https://www.t-rex-racing.com/

[kballowe]

Did somebody say "VERSYS"  ???

[larrys]

The EV models have tubeless spoke wheels.  Some models require tubes.  Many run Metzler 880 and get really good mileage.

Me and my Cal like the 880's. I have owned one and have ridden a bunch of Shortsters and never would consider choosing one over over a Guzzi.
Larry

[bodine99]

A 1200 XL set up like a Road King with zoom down the highway good all day and take you all around Fl. on day trips just fine. Farkles and HD stores all over if needed for a roadside breakdown.

[yellowheader]

 If I get a guzzi, the first mod I will make is adding crash bars and saddle bag guards--and I will put those little doughnuts on those--and I won't expect any of it to stay shiny and nice for long.  I don't mind scratches, dents, etc. That's character.

Thank you, I have looked at the Voyagers but they are too heavy for me, with pegs/boards too far forward. I want to like them because of the deals but I dont' think I could sit in that position for long.

I have a crash bar for a Stone that you can have for the price of shipping. It's got a scrape on one side and might need to be bent back into shape a bit, but it's totally useable for someone not concerned with cosmetics.
ME880s are getting scarce because they've gone out of production. ME888s are the replacement model. They come in Cali sizes too.

[Castorp]

Well I hoped to look at 2 different californias this week and both fell through. One due to vin not matching title/registration. The other was a 2003 and I was worried all the recalls mentioned above had not been done. So I am back to looking.

Yellowheader, if i do wind up with a california and you still have the bar, I will be interested. And thank you for the info on the 880s. I was wondering  about that very thing.

Bodine, that is exactly the plan if I go the sporty route. I want to put some used RK shocks on it, side cases (with guards if I can find some that will fit it), good seat for passenger--well very much like the white sportster pictured earlier in this thread (beautiful bike, to me). I do wonder about the belt when I do longer dirt roads, but they seem to easy to convert to chain if that becomes an issue.

Twowheeladdict, I have considered the versys 650, the wee strom, the cb 500x--and especially the nc700x (which I like in part because I believe it has screw and locknut valves that are Relatively easy to get to). I  see these bikes more as standards labeled as adventure bikes. That said, I do wonder: if you take them off road or even on just a sandy and take a spill, doesn't the plastic break?   

 

[Dave Swanson]

I am late to this party, but IMO it has to be 100% EV all the way over any Sportster.  I have owned a few Sportsters and liked them a lot but they don't compare to an EV out on the highway rolling at 70+ mph. 

This is not mine but wish it was.  It is a classy looking bike!

[Kev m]

I am late to this party, but IMO it has to be 100% EV all the way over any Sportster.  I have owned a few Sportsters and liked them a lot but they don't compare to an EV out on the highway rolling at 70+ mph.

I gotta ask.

HAVE YOU OWNED A RUBBERMOUNT 1200?!?

Because the difference between a solidmount 1200 (through 03) and a rubbermount (04+) is significant, almost completely different bikes.

I'm struggling for a Guzzi analogy. It's not quite Cali 1100 vs Cali 1400 but it's closer than not.

Yeah it's the same basic frame and engine architecture, but everything about how they work together changed.

[twowheeladdict]

Twowheeladdict, I have considered the versys 650, the wee strom, the cb 500x--and especially the nc700x (which I like in part because I believe it has screw and locknut valves that are Relatively easy to get to). I  see these bikes more as standards labeled as adventure bikes. That said, I do wonder: if you take them off road or even on just a sandy and take a spill, doesn't the plastic break?

I had my 2011 Versys for 30,000 miles. SW Motech engine guards. I never dropped it, but I honed my skills on small Dual sport bikes. There was a YouTube video Out showing a Versys sliding on pavement and the SW Motech guards did their job.

[oldbike54]

 Interesting that Kevin mentioned the Versys , they are fun , but comparing the 650 Kawasaki to an 1100 Guzzi is almost strange . The Kwacker is a Rat Terrier , the old Guzzi is a big old Labrador Retriever .

 Dusty

[twowheeladdict]

Interesting that Kevin mentioned the Versys , they are fun , but comparing the 650 Kawasaki to an 1100 Guzzi is almost strange . The Kwacker is a Rat Terrier , the old Guzzi is a big old Labrador Retriever .

 Dusty

Don't underestimate a Rat Terrier.  They will surprise you with their tenacity, and voracity when they have prey in their sights.