Can I wire driving lights into the headlight on a Bobber?

[Caffeineo]

I want to increase my daytime visibility so I ordered some LED driving lights. I am thinking the easiest way to do wire them would be directly to the headlight. I would connect the outside, daytime driving light to the low beam as it is always on. The center, driving light to the high beam. The only info that is listed on the power usage I can find is 12 Watts. Can the headlight wiring and switches handle the extra power or do I need to get a separate switch and wiring. Would or should they have a relay???
Thanks.

[Kiwi_Roy]

One option is to put the running lights on the city light aka park light that way they don't add any load to the dimmer switch, the only problem with this is they operate all the time.
I switched mine over to run off the headlight so they turn off when the engine is not running (charging)

I provided a diode from both Hi and Low filaments thinking that whichever filament was on would power up the lights although you say the low beam is always on the schematic doesn't really show that.

The wires to the LED driving lights can be quite small since they only need 9 Volts for full brightness so you don't need a relay, you can afford to lose 3 Volts.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2017_V9_Bobber.gif

Yje headlight relay (5) feeds the thick grey wire to the headlight switch you could also tap into that for the driving lights if you want to bypass the dimmer switch.
I put driving lights on my V7 Special, they certainly make it more visible, look under the bottom steering head you will probably find some pre-tapped holes you can use to hold the light bar.

[moto-uno]

  Would the 1 amp additional draw really be of any consequence to the switch gear ?  Peter

[Bert Remington]

Caffeineo -- if you are running the stock incandescent H4 headlight bulb, you will need a separate fused circuit and relay for your auxiliary LED lights.  If you installed an LED H4 headlight bulb, you can use the existing wiring without concern for switch life, wire size, etc.  However an extra 5amp inline fuse is always a good thing on dark nights.

If you are mixing high/low beam functions (eg, an LED auxiliary light is ON during both High and Low beam operation), you must use diodes in the H4 bulb circuit per KR's guidance.

KR is correct about mounting holes on the lower fork clamp.  I think they are 6mm.  H&B uses them for their lights.



No they don't sell the bracket separately.  But ask them again.  If enough of us ask, maybe they will.

[Caffeineo]

Thanks for all the replies. Just to clarify my misleading statement about the low beam being always on. What I really meant was that I can not switch the headlight off. So the headlight being always on. I want to wire the white tube light that goes around the circumference of the light to the low beam and the central elements (being the bright light) to the high beam. I do not want both driving light elements on together. Just got the lights and the wires are quite small so I am guessing they do not draw much current. What I did not know or consider was mixing the stock element with LED's would not work or cause problems.    Seems like the easiest way to make this work is to just get an H4 LED headlight. Then I can wire the driving lights to the headlight and maybe put a fuse in line. As usual my "simple and easy" project will rake more time and $$ than expected. 

I ordered some nice brackets that will mount to the fork tubes. Going to put them just above the bottom fork yoke.

[Bert Remington]

Aaah angel eyes as DRLs and center LEDs for dark roads.  I think you will end up using the center LEDs for DRLs albeit with twowheeladdict's Skene Design IQ-275-A to control brightness and provide the trick alert feature.

I'm in sync with you on things not quite going as intended.  Ordered some clamps for Stucchi engine guards, I specified wrong size; I ordered again, they sent wrong size.  But I was able to trial fit the Rigid fog lights.  Except the Stucchi guard isn't quite parallel to the ground (no need for it to be) and the Rigid lights are really bright so I have to be careful with beam pattern.  Stucchi mount is no more and I'm back to fork mount where I started.  Send pictures of your mounts so I can benefit from your experience.

This H4 LED bulb seems to be popular: https://www.amazon.com/DDM-Tuning-SaberLED-Headlight-Warranty/dp/B07TH85PF6/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=ddm%2Btuning%2BSaberLED%2BPro%2BFit%2BH4&qid=1596598424&sr=8-3&th=1  It comes from various vendors.  I just happen to have an extra one if you're interested.

BTW for my Rigid lights I'm using two Timer Shop programmable solid state relays (I like their stuff) to control them including my equivalent to Skene's alert (it's a left-right wig-wag for several seconds).  Skene uses the High beam switch; I use the easier to reach Horn button.  Yeah no horn.  My half-century experience is pulling on the brake lever works better than pushing on the Horn button.

What I really need to do is start a discussion on this farkle: https://www.amazon.com/Smart-Turn-System-automatic-cancelling/dp/B06XD71KSW/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=smart+turn+system&qid=1597541140&sr=8-2  There are a number of V7 III and V9 members whose attention to turn signals isn't what it used to be. And I don't like the mechanical action on my V7 III so am considering the STS.  It works by removing the mechanical lock in the turn signal switch and providing it in electronics that are also sensitive to motion to determine the turning maneuver is completed.  It's on my to-do list.

[janguzzi]

Hepco Becker Twinlight brackets:

https://www.stein-dinse.biz/product_info.php?products_id=14235
https://www.stein-dinse.biz/product_info.php?products_id=439108

No idea if these fit on a Bobber.

[kingoffleece]

I've never added anything to my bikes that was not fused and run with separate wiring.
I also solder everything.

[twowheeladdict]

I've never added anything to my bikes that was not fused and run with separate wiring.
I also solder everything.

Have you never used a circuit to power a relay switch?  If not, how do you keep items from being powered with the bike off?  Or triggered by the brake circuit?

[Wayne Orwig]

Can you do it, probably.
Should you, NO.
The weak headlight wiring is likely already part of the problem with not having enough light. Adding 2 more amps isn't going to help.
Do it right, run a heavy wire, fuse it at the battery, put in a relay. You can get a premade harness if you need it.

Here is a thought. Get something like an Eastern Beaver headlight relay kit and put that on the headlight. It will run good fused power to the headlight bulb through relays. That can then run not only the headlight brighter but ALSO the add on lights.

[egschade]

I used a separate fused circuit for my LED spot beams and trigger them with a relay connected to the high beam lead. Also using a LED headlight bulb so no worries about overloading the switch.

[Caffeineo]

Why am I starting to feel like I asked which oil I should use???  Just kidding. Big learning curve for me on what I thought was going to be a simple job. But.....I only want to mess with this once so I know it will be worth the time and effort to learn how to do it right the first time.

I was not aware of the Skene Design IQ-275-A and a quick look at the web site makes me think it would be worthwhile.

The Eastern Beaver headlight relay kit would make the installation more of a plug & play job. That really fits in with what I learned I should do - battery power to a relay. I do like the idea of using the headlight power to trigger the relay.

I used a separate fused circuit for my LED spot beams and trigger them with a relay connected to the high beam lead. Also using a LED headlight bulb so no worries about overloading the switch.

I have these mounting brackets coming today. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FETT3FO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Going to take out the stock bulb and see if this LED unit will fit. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085ZPJWL6/ref=sspa_dk_detail_6?pd_rd_i=B07Z4QKB33

Thanks for all the help and patience, 

[Bert Remington]

Caffeino -- those are the same brackets I bought just a different vendor.  I see you're hooked on angel eyes. You may have to remove this plastic dingus to fit the bulb.



The Skene Lights have me rethinking my need for the Rigid fog lights.  No big clunky lights and their brackets. Tidy and highly functional.  I already have LED turn signals for their conspicuity flicker function so I don't need their LED modules. And they're for BMWs (Bring More Wallet).

[Caffeineo]

Caffeino -- those are the same brackets I bought just a different vendor.  I see you're hooked on angel eyes. You may have to remove this plastic dingus to fit the bulb.



The Skene Lights have me rethinking my need for the Rigid fog lights.  No big clunky lights and their brackets. Tidy and highly functional.  I already have LED turn signals for their conspicuity flicker function so I don't need their LED modules. And they're for BMWs (Bring More Wallet).

A friend I ride with has a blue angel eye and when I look back in the mirror it really stands out. Another rider also commented that my bike did not stand out much........ but most of the people I ride with have HD's or Victory's with lots of lights up front. 

One of the group got a LED replacement with a bunch of lights in it and that also planted the idea I need more light up front. 

[rocker59]

When I was 16, I thought wiring the aftermarket driving lights directly to the headlights of my Pontiac would be a quick simple solution.

What I learned very quickly was what has been mentioned. 

You need to wire the aux lights on their own fused and relayed harness.  You can run the switch wire from the relay to the headlights, if you want them to work in concert with the high or low beams.

The existing headlight wiring for vehicles cannot handle the added amperage / wattage of direct wired aux lights.

[Caffeineo]

Just got the brackets and lights mounted. Still have some learning to do before wiring them in. I tried to mount the lights upside down but the mounting bracket prevented the lights from pointing down enough so this is the way it will be. 

Looking at getting blade type fuse to put in the lines. Just not sure what size??? Each light will use about 1 amp so would a 2 amp fuse be good??? More or less???? I have gotten to the point where the more I learn the more confused I get. Not that it is a hard thing to do. 











Thanks again for all the help. 

[rocker59]

I have gotten to the point where the more I learn the more confused I get. 

Why not just buy a wiring harness for driving/fog lights?  Simplest solution.  Every maker of aftermarket lights has a harness.

[Bert Remington]

Caffeino -- use a 5amp ATO -- common as dirt.  You V9 probably has a spare 20amp ATO for the ABS circuit.

rocker59 -- LEDs began entering automotive applications mid-2000s.  Your Pontiac days were before then and Yes separately battery feed with relay control was the correct solution for incandescent bulbs.  The P=ExI equation hasn't changed but automotive LEDs changed the I big time.

[Caffeineo]

Caffeino -- use a 5amp ATO -- common as dirt.  You V9 probably has a spare 20amp ATO for the ABS circuit.

rocker59 -- LEDs began entering automotive applications mid-2000s.  Your Pontiac days were before then and Yes separately battery feed with relay control was the correct solution for incandescent bulbs.  The P=ExI equation hasn't changed but automotive LEDs changed the I big time.

Thanks. I had to Google ATO...... blade fuse. Now I just need to figure out how to tap into the headlight wiring. I found some crimp on taps but think they will damage the wire and cause problems in the future. May end up just carefully removing a bit of insulation and solder the wire into it. Seems like the best solution so far.

[Bert Remington]

Caffeineo -- First I recommend you use Posi-Taps: https://www.posi-products.com/index.html  You are quite correct about the wire damage risk with the common type of wire taps.  Try to match the Posi-Tap size to the wire size.  If you want to replace them with soldered taps later, that's fine but I think you will keep them.

Don't be coy with access to the wiring.  Take the tank and side covers off.  And disconnect the battery ground.

If you don't have the MG wiring diagram (the readable one is separate from the service manual) get one (I bought mine from AF1).

After you have the MG diagram, develop one for your additions including wire colors, locations, etc.  If your diagram looks like KR did it, you're on the right track.  Planning doesn't guarantee success but it sure helps.

Remember what KR said about when the headlight comes on.

I'm pretty sure I'm dropping my Rigid fog lights plan and will use Skene Lights Photon Blaster for the front.  Still thinking through the rear.

[Caffeineo]

Caffeineo -- First I recommend you use Posi-Taps: https://www.posi-products.com/index.html  You are quite correct about the wire damage risk with the common type of wire taps.  Try to match the Posi-Tap size to the wire size.  If you want to replace them with soldered taps later, that's fine but I think you will keep them.

Don't be coy with access to the wiring.  Take the tank and side covers off.  And disconnect the battery ground.

If you don't have the MG wiring diagram (the readable one is separate from the service manual) get one (I bought mine from AF1).

After you have the MG diagram, develop one for your additions including wire colors, locations, etc.  If your diagram looks like KR did it, you're on the right track.  Planning doesn't guarantee success but it sure helps.

Remember what KR said about when the headlight comes on.

I'm pretty sure I'm dropping my Rigid fog lights plan and will use Skene Lights Photon Blaster for the front.  Still thinking through the rear.

Thanks for the tap link. Now to figure out wire sizes and get the right Posi-Tap.
I have looked at a premade wiring harness as rocker59 suggested - but I just got confused by all the options and just wanting to keep things simple.
Also see the value in the Skene products......but again for a non-electrical type the number of options got a bit overwhelming. Do they replace a black box or do they need to be wired into the existing wiring? I would like to get something for the brake light but after this "little" project am thinking I will just enjoy riding it and save some projects for winter.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Run your two driving light cables into the headlight bucket, its made of plastic and can be taken off for drilling the holes
Perhaps seal around the cables with silicone or just make it a firm fit.
When I first wired mine I just tapped into the park light bulb with regular trim connectors. this circuit has lots of capacity and it's already fused.
Later on you could switch it to one of the headlight wires or get really industrious and pull the tank off to access the switched wire from relay (5)
See the grey wire second from the left, it goes to the handlebar switch.

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2017_V9_Bobber.gif

[Bert Remington]

Caffeineo -- c'mon that wallet ain't empty yet.

Amber RY10W turn signal bulbs:

Very expensive but high quality and very very bright:

https://www.amazon.com/Inertia-LED-12093NA-Motorcycle-Replacement/dp/B018UWBPK8/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1VH271LU9MECF&dchild=1&keywords=ry10w+led+amber&qid=1597799605&sprefix=ry10w%2Caps%2C220&sr=8-4

One-fourth the price but I don't know the quality or performance:

https://www.amazon.com/Wiseshine-1156py-DC9-30v-quality-assurance/dp/B01E5AIMU0/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1VH271LU9MECF&dchild=1&keywords=ry10w+led+amber&qid=1597799246&sprefix=ry10w%2Caps%2C220&sr=8-4

Red 1157 brake/tail bulb (you want Red to match the lens but it sorta turns your license plate Red at night):

This non-flasher should do the job -- you want an end-firing (projector) bulb:

https://www.amazon.com/iBrightstar-Newest-Projector-replacement-Brilliant/dp/B01MY4T4BU/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2DI2JT012N4PQ&dchild=1&keywords=1157+led+bulb+red&qid=1597799848&sprefix=1157%2Caps%2C227&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExOEZHQjRQR0hLQTc0JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDY4NzgwMkgwOTVMTTZaQzZWWSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTQ1NDYzMlg0QUlDWFhaTVZIQyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

This flasher might be a bit long -- check your housing first:

https://www.amazon.com/iBrightstar-Flashing-Blinking-replacement-Brilliant/dp/B07RSHZVYJ/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?crid=2DI2JT012N4PQ&dchild=1&keywords=1157+led+bulb+red&qid=1597799674&sprefix=1157%2Caps%2C227&sr=8-3-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUE3TURFNjlPSUxGRjAmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA0NjE2OTQyQkg3R09MRFpNVlFSJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA1MDU0NzAxMlpVVkxCS0ZBQTZIJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

That's pretty much the basics for lighting safety.  Send pictures of that angel eye H4.

[Caffeineo]

Run your two driving light cables into the headlight bucket, its made of plastic and can be taken off for drilling the holes
Perhaps seal around the cables with silicone or just make it a firm fit.
When I first wired mine I just tapped into the park light bulb with regular trim connectors. this circuit has lots of capacity and it's already fused.
Later on you could switch it to one of the headlight wires or get really industrious and pull the tank off to access the switched wire from relay (5)
See the grey wire second from the left, it goes to the handlebar switch.

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2017_V9_Bobber.gif

By "park light bulb" I am assuming you are referring to #43 Front daylight running light bulb??? That could be a good power source for the blue rings (angel eyes?).
I was a bit nervous about drilling the rear fender for the rack but the headlight bucket may be easier as I think the holes will not be visible. The Roamer windshield I ordered will be here today and I think it uses the headlight bucket screws to mount. So I will just take it off and have a look at the wiring and see if I can make sense of it. With any luck I hope to be able to figure out what wire goes where and develop a plan for taping into some power. This has turned out to be one of the bigger "simple jobs" yet.  Thanks for all your help and patience in my electrical education. 

[Caffeineo]

Caffeineo -- c'mon that wallet ain't empty yet.

Amber RY10W turn signal bulbs:

Very expensive but high quality and very very bright:

https://www.amazon.com/Inertia-LED-12093NA-Motorcycle-Replacement/dp/B018UWBPK8/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1VH271LU9MECF&dchild=1&keywords=ry10w+led+amber&qid=1597799605&sprefix=ry10w%2Caps%2C220&sr=8-4

One-fourth the price but I don't know the quality or performance:

https://www.amazon.com/Wiseshine-1156py-DC9-30v-quality-assurance/dp/B01E5AIMU0/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1VH271LU9MECF&dchild=1&keywords=ry10w+led+amber&qid=1597799246&sprefix=ry10w%2Caps%2C220&sr=8-4

Red 1157 brake/tail bulb (you want Red to match the lens but it sorta turns your license plate Red at night):

This non-flasher should do the job -- you want an end-firing (projector) bulb:

https://www.amazon.com/iBrightstar-Newest-Projector-replacement-Brilliant/dp/B01MY4T4BU/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2DI2JT012N4PQ&dchild=1&keywords=1157+led+bulb+red&qid=1597799848&sprefix=1157%2Caps%2C227&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExOEZHQjRQR0hLQTc0JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDY4NzgwMkgwOTVMTTZaQzZWWSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTQ1NDYzMlg0QUlDWFhaTVZIQyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

This flasher might be a bit long -- check your housing first:

https://www.amazon.com/iBrightstar-Flashing-Blinking-replacement-Brilliant/dp/B07RSHZVYJ/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?crid=2DI2JT012N4PQ&dchild=1&keywords=1157+led+bulb+red&qid=1597799674&sprefix=1157%2Caps%2C227&sr=8-3-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUE3TURFNjlPSUxGRjAmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA0NjE2OTQyQkg3R09MRFpNVlFSJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA1MDU0NzAxMlpVVkxCS0ZBQTZIJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

That's pretty much the basics for lighting safety.  Send pictures of that angel eye H4.

Well the wallet is not empty but it is tightly closed. 
Still waiting for the Zard exhaust from Italy.
The LED headlight bulb and Roamer windshield will get here today and........hoping they are "simple jobs"
I want to get the new driving lights wired in before I start the learning process for the tail/brake light and turn signals. My old brain is maxed out trying to process all the new information about driving light wiring. 

[atavar]

What I did on my Norge was to run a fused power feed from the battery to a relay I put in the fairing.  I put a DPDT switch in the fairing running a tap from the high beam to one side of the switch and the low beam to the other side of the switch.  The output from the switch feeds to the armature on the relay.
What this does is it lets me select whether the aux lights follow the high beam or the low beam (or off). 
Running from battery through the relay allows maximum current to the aux lights for maximum brightness. 
I do enjoy having the ability to select high or low beam modes for different driving situations and being able to turn them off in places like campgroundswould be annoying. 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Great idea 

[Caffeineo]

I put off the wiring for some time as it was something I am a bit challenger with but forced myself to get er done. The inline fuse holders I got had wire significantly larger than the tiny LED lights wires. So soldering them was a PITA for me. It did not turn out nice and I plan on getting the correct wire to match the LED size and do a better job over winter. Got the wiring done and nothing......so I figure it is the ground. Turns out the screw that holds a plastic cover to the frame near the front of the gas tank is not a good ground. Got that fixed and only the outer blue lights work. Kind of think it is the fuse holder as I had to dig out some of the rubber cover to get the fuse to fit. Anyways I will get it rewired over winter. They must be working as not 1 car has pulled out in front of me......yet. ;)
The turn signals look further from the lights in the garage than they do on the street. I tried to hang the lights down on the brackets but they end up pointing up and do not have enough clearance to get them pointed down enough.