clutch pull

[MMRanch]

It seems like the clutch pull on my V7II has gotten stiffer over time .    In order to be able to find neutral the clutch has to be pulled in all-the-way.  It seems like I'm being mean to the clutch cable because it take so much to pull it.   
So , what are you other guys doing to make it easier to pull ?

[Muzz]

I have washed out the cable with Kero to flush out any dirt; the Breva one is Teflon coated so I don't use oil.  I did put a bit of oil just in the 90 degree bend as it comes out of the lever and lubed the pivot pins.  Make sure the cable is traveling unrestricted in the slot in the lever and not bending around it as you pull it in.

[Dirk_S]

A generous couple squirts of cable lube have worked fine for my V7II. Are the levers at both ends free and lubed as well?

[fotoguzzi]

It's an EV? Check the routing, a lot of times it has a pretty sharp bend around the air box. That area can also get rusty if moisture migrates down the cable inside the sheath.

[oldbike54]

It's an EV? Check the routing, a lot of times it has a pretty sharp bend around the air box. That area can also get rusty if moisture migrates down the cable inside the sheath.

 Brad

It seems like the clutch pull on my V7II has gotten stiffer over time .   

[Tiny Tim]

Assuming everything in stock condition is working correctly. I use Moose Racing (Easy Pull) clutch system on almost all my vintage bikes. Tremendously better.   

[oldbike54]

 Fellas , this is a V7II , not an EV or a vintage bike .

 How many miles ? This sounds like the thrust washer problem , sorry .

 Dusty

[fotoguzzi]

My bad, I saw the v and II and thought V11,, never mind.

[Zoom Zoom]

To Dusty's point, some V7II's had an issue with a thrust washer on the crankshaft. (Yeah, that could be a big deal.)

Are you actually saying the lever is harder to pull, or that you have to pull it further back and you keep having to adjust it?

If I'm understanding your original post, it sounds as if it is actually becoming hard to pull, but please clarify.

Another thing I have experienced, although on a completely different bike, was that the pivot pin on the rear of the transmission for the actuating lever had partially seized up. This happened on a friends bike. He was constantly running out of adjustment and breaking cables. Once we freed up the pivot point, everything was fine.

John Henry

[Tiny Tim]

Doesn't have to be a vintage bike. The Moose Easy pulls are still worth using on any bike that has a normally stiff clutch out of the box.   

[oldbike54]

Doesn't have to be a vintage bike. The Moose Easy pulls are still worth using on any bike that has a normally stiff clutch out of the box.
[/quote



 True , except the V7 doesn't have a stiff clutch , something is wrong

 Dusty

[Zoom Zoom]

My V7III has the lightest clutch of any bike I have owned. A II should be the same.

ZZ

[Dirk_S]

My V7III has the lightest clutch of any bike I have owned. A II should be the same.

You’d expect that, but I remember sitting on a showroom V7III and being envious of the levers, thinking “why do they get such a light pull?” Granted, I don’t religiously lubricate mine though, which could be a factor. That said, all the previous bike models I’ve owned were lighter, including two Japanese bikes from the 70s.

(Cue the curmudgeons who’ve owned older Guzzis and their tales of “you want to see a stiff clutch?...”)

[Zoom Zoom]

I DID qualify my statement. I also asked for clarification from the OP.

ZZ

[Tiny Tim]

As I was saying if everything else is in normal working order a moose easy pull clutch is a great upgrade. It's just a bit of information for folks that may find it useful. Nothing more. Let me Dust myself off a minute here.   

[Cam3512]

Fellas , this is a V7II , not an EV or a vintage bike .

 How many miles ? This sounds like the thrust washer problem , sorry .

 Dusty

Dusty may be right here.  How many miles?  The thrust washer usually goes in the first few thousand.  Constant clutch lever adjustments are a sure sign.  Only happens to a small percentage of V7 2's.  Stay focused people.

[Muzz]

Fellas , this is a V7II , not an EV or a vintage bike .

 How many miles ? This sounds like the thrust washer problem , sorry .

 Dusty

Forgot about the thrust washer problem Dusty.  Does that make it stiff to pull or just not work with the crankshaft movement?

[Cam3512]

Could be the clutch cable is resting on the cylinders and melting the sheath?  That was also an issue on the earlier V7's.  Happened to my '14 V7 Special.  Guzzi's fix was a large rubber insulator on the cable that also melted.

Check the routing of the cable.

[MMRanch]

Wow , thanks for all the replies guys .   

   How many miles ? This sounds like the thrust washer problem , sorry .    It is almost 17K miles.   The original cable broke about 2 inches from the handle bar grip.  The new cable is hard to pull too.   

The lever at the transmission is easy to move with out the cable hooked to it but the pressure it take to compress the clutch is more than any of the 30+ bikes I've had/ridden in the past.

When the bike was new , it kept running out of adjustment for the first 5000 miles , so I did the adjustment on the transmission (lock nut and set-screw) to make more adjustment for the cable.    I have put wheel-bearing grease on the drums at each end of the cable .

I don't think its normal to need this much pressure .

What about the "Throw-out-bearing"  what type is in there ?   I wonder if I'm pushing the clutch rod through what-ever it is pushing on ?

Truthfully , I'm a little disappointed by Guzzi Engineering .   The push-rod V motor turned the right way and the drive shaft is smart , but I'm thinking "how can they screw-up the clutch that much" ?

[lucky phil]

Check the clutch rod thrust bearing is actually fitted, I read in Dave Richardsons new book this exact issue with a customers new bike and it was missing the thrust bearing from the factory.

Ciao 

[John A]

The easiest way to check the crankshaft thrust washer is take a screwdriver and through the timing plug pry the crank aft and watch it as you pull the clutch. It will move forward. I move it back and forth making note of how much it moves.  Up to maybe a millimeter is probly fine but more than that is worrisome

[Huzo]

Dusty may be right here.  How many miles?  The thrust washer usually goes in the first few thousand.  Constant clutch lever adjustments are a sure sign.  Only happens to a small percentage of V7 2's.  Stay focused people.

Does that make the clutch action stiffer, or just requiring a greater lever throw ?
Different symptoms.

[lucky phil]

The easiest way to check the crankshaft thrust washer is take a screwdriver and through the timing plug pry the crank aft and watch it as you pull the clutch. It will move forward. I move it back and forth making note of how much it moves.  Up to maybe a millimeter is probly fine but more than that is worrisome

I was talking about the clutch pushrod thrust/release bearing.

Ciao

[John A]

I was talking about the clutch pushrod thrust/release bearing.

Ciao

I know Phil, I was just contributing to general knowledge 

[malik]

The last time I found the clutch pull to be hard/stiff (it had snuck up on me), I pulled off the cable & found a broken inner strand. I replaced the cable with a new one, and all was well once more. It sounds like you've already tried replacing the cable, with no joy.

Re-routing the cable can make a difference.

One check of the trust bearing can be done by eye - the lever arm at the gearbox end rests on the outer body. This outer body should be more or less flush with the gearbox cover. Sometimes you need to degrease & hose off the rear cover to be able to see past collected gunk. Access is not particularly easy, the swingarm is in the way. If it's recessed, it's worth checking the state of the thrust bearing - it may have collapsed. You'll have to remove the clutch operating arm (DO check the pivot, clean & polish it) and pull out the outer body. Behind that you'll find the thrust bearing (a 3 piece affair), easily removed with a magnet. Guzzi has changed these - the newer ones are supposed to be more robust.

Afterwards, adjust the clutch again, first at the bottom, then at the top.

[MMRanch]

  through the timing plug pry the crank aft   

?

This is my  first guzzi , is the timing plug on the front or rear ?     Are the clutch throw-out bearings troublesome on Guzzis ? 

[malik]

I think he might be talking about the inspection plug on the RHS of the bell housing. I figure it must be a legacy thing, left over from the bad old days when timing was done manually. I've only used it it to confirm that I have oil in there when my clutch starts slipping.

Although thrust bearings have been known to fail on occasion, they are usually quite robust for such a delicate thing. I change mine out when I replace the clutch due to the failure of the the clutch push rod oil seal - for me, about each 100,000km or so. I haven't had a thrust bearing fail (,yet).

[twowheeladdict]

Wow , thanks for all the replies guys .   
The lever at the transmission is easy to move with out the cable hooked to it but the pressure it take to compress the clutch is more than any of the 30+ bikes I've had/ridden in the past.

If I am reading this correctly it sounds like the cable and or cable routing is the issue. 

[MMRanch]

Not at all , the problem is the push rod going into the bellhousing is too hard to push.   Something is not right in there.   I've never seen the inside so I'm lost at what it might be.   Its felt like a regular pull when it was new but with-in the first 3-5K miles got stiffer till the first cable couldn't take it no more and started fraying from to much force , its not any easier with the new cable --- ain't no worse either ...

Going on the responses I'm getting ... its not a common problem. 

The end-play thing on the crankshaft wouldn't account for a hard pull .   

Phil posted with a customers new bike and it was missing the thrust bearing from the factory   

That could be it ?   Without the bearing on the end of the shaft it would meet the resistance of the spinning clutch plate till it wore a hole in it over time.   

I'm going to see if I can find a parts diagram that is easy to read.

[malik]

Clutch II in the Spare Parts Manual is explicit. If you don't have it already, it's freely downloadable from all sorts of sources - AF1, Cadre, Stein Dinse, thisoldtractor, & more. Second step is still to get your head right under the bike & see how the outer body is lining up.

If you are going to have to get at it, best access is with the swingarm removed. It can be got at with the swingarm tied up, but after taking the rear wheel off, there's not much more involved.