ABS - essential or not?

[rjamesohio]

I had a discussion with a friend this morning and he said he would NEVER buy a motorcycle without ABS and proclaimed that any non-ABS bike was a “death trap“. His words, not mine.

When I look at the brakes on my Breva 1100 - which does not have the ABS option- I have a hard time thinking that bike is a “death Trap”.

Collective thoughts? I know my old Cali with linked brakes was great in a panic stop but that would not have pulsed either. I think it’s more a case off riding smart and not overriding your or the bike’s capabilities...

[Huzo]

“Essential” would suggest that you will not survive without it..
Clearly that’s not the case, but the opinions as to it’s efficacy are many and varied, it’s been discussed at length here in the past. Most people come down in favour.
If I could get it off my Norge and V85 without introducing a fault code or similar, I would.

[blackcat]

If I could get it off my Norge and V85 without introducing a fault code or similar, I would.

I don't know about the V85, but you can turn it off on the Norge.

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

funny for a Breva 1100 owner to say that, have you never locked up the rear brake?? I always feel mine is very touchy, I have locked up the rear many times-- wish it had ABS

[Huzo]

I don't know about the V85, but you can turn it off on the Norge.

Yes, but it comes back when you turn the key off and back on again. Unless there is a method to full time disable it ?

[Lannis]

Of course it's not essential.   I've got about 500,000 miles on motorcycles, and 20,000 of those were on bikes with ABS.

It has some benefits, but it's like people who say:

"I would NEVER leave the house without my smartphone and GPS.  NEVER!" 

"I would NEVER drive a car without an airbag!"

and things like that.   Something we happily did without for our whole lives - how can it suddenly become "essential"?

Lannis

[blackcat]

Yes, but it comes back when you turn the key off and back on again. Unless there is a method to full time disable it ?

True, and I don't believe it can be permanently disabled.

[Bisbonian]

As ABS becomes more common on motorcycles I see more people claiming they will never buy a bike without it.

Certainly ABS today is a far cry from the first bike I had which was equipped back in '93, that experience got me to swear off ABS until I bought my V85.

People have vast differences in the amount of risk they are willing to take on. Motorcycling at its core is a risky proposition so I understand the desire to try to mitigate that risk as much as possible. They desire ABS for the same reason many people search for a good, safe, helmet and pay a lot of money for quality riding gear.

People try to make the ABS issue about manliness and riding skill, it doesn't have to be that way. Another person on a motorcycle is one more car driver on the road who will pay more attention to motorcyclist.

[Huzo]

True, and I don't believe it can be permanently disabled.

I do like the feel of the braking action with it disabled, the whole thing feels smoother when under heavy use, but the flashing amber warning on the panel is a pain.
As to the OP’s question..
There are some aspects of my bikes operation I prefer to have ultimate control over, even if the ECU can do a “better” job. I don’t like handing command to a circuit board, but I have no easy choice.

[s1120]

Really a hundred years of motorcycles came before ABS..  Not thinking its really essential.  Yes you need to learn to stop correctly..  When to use front, and rear, and both.. Back in my years working at a car dealer I had many customers start yelling because the battery went dead in their keyless remote. "Well how am I going to get in my car??"...   Yes some aspects make things safer.. but also I think marketing makes people feel you cant live without it.

[Ncdan]

The discussion on this subject is very subjective, here’s my take based on my 55 years of experience.
All but two years of my riding exposure has been on bikes with no ABS or TRACTION CONTROL. I have never locked either end of a bike in an emergency reaction stop. This comes from 10s of thousands of miles in every condition one can imagine. The only bike I’ve owned with these features was a 2015 1400 tourer and during the two years I owned the bike I really never noticed either of these features pro or con.
That being said, I would advise any new rider to start out with a modern motorcycle with these features as it takes years and a lot of miles and situations to achieve the skills to react appropriately in an emergency situations.

[rjamesohio]

funny for a Breva 1100 owner to say that, have you never locked up the rear brake?? I always feel mine is very touchy, I have locked up the rear many times-- wish it had ABS

LOL. That's because I've only owned the bike for 3 days! But good to know about the sensitive rear brake.

When my friend proclaimed that any non-ABS bike was a 'death trap' I simply said "Gee I'd better sell it then". Right now I think the Breva is great and most people that own them agree once you take care of the obvious things that Moto Guzzi should have fixed. Mine is about halfway there.

That said - since ABS was an option - I wonder how difficult it would be to retrofit it? My BMW has it, so I guess I'm not totally at risk :)

[berniebee]

Of course it's not essential.   I've got about 500,000 miles on motorcycles, and 20,000 of those were on bikes with ABS.

It has some benefits, but it's like people who say:

"I would NEVER leave the house without my smartphone and GPS.  NEVER!" 

"I would NEVER drive a car without an airbag!"

and things like that.   Something we happily did without for our whole lives - how can it suddenly become "essential"?

Lannis

What Lannis said.

I'm all for ABS, just haven't been interested in a bike (so far) that happens to have it. Let's face it, It takes some skill to turn and stop on a bike.  ABS is certainly helpful, especially for newbies or those who don't practice emergency braking consistently. And braking hard in the wet with ABS is a lot less daunting.

But there is a flip side:
I remember seeing in "Freakonomics" (A great read BTW)  that people compensate for safety devices by being more careless and/or taking more risks, so the net effect of more safety upgrades is not as great as one would think. The author jokingly proposed that one way to get safer car drivers would be to attach a spear on the driving wheel, aimed directly at the driver's chest!  It's likely that ABS encourages some folks to ride a little more on the edge.

And besides that, I find that when I use absolutes like "NEVER", it usually comes back to bite me in the donkey.

[wrbix]

I will add that perhaps once a rider gets used to ABS, riding without it is potentially more treacherous. Teresa has always claimed ownership of ABS equipped motorbikes, but when we rented in NZ, she was on a non-ABSer and ended up going down on a rain slickened road with rear wheel lockup....and she’s a good rider.

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

It is NOT essential. Modern systems ARE beneficial. In fall if you find dead leaves in front of a stop sign. If you’re riding and a thunderstorm crosses your path. When you’re on a wet road and someone turns in front of you. ABS is very nice in those situations. However, all of those situations happened to me on my bikes without ABS and I survived with nary a scratch. Maybe I did pucker up so hard as to leave an indention of my nether regions on the seat, but that will happen with ABS too.

Nothing can take the place of learning your bike, it’s limits, and your limits. Try not to exceed those limits and you’ll find having ABS is an afterthought.

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

I will add that perhaps once a rider gets used to ABS, riding without it is potentially more treacherous. Teresa has always claimed ownership of ABS equipped motorbikes, but when we rented in NZ, she was on a non-ABSer and ended up going down on a rain slickened road with rear wheel lockup....and she’s a good rider.

This is an excellent point.

[Guzzistajohn]

Nice, but NOPE

[willowstreetguzziguy]

It might be controversial to say this but If you truly know how to scan for dangers around you when you're riding and you truly know how to operate a motorcycle 10/10, you shouldn't need it. Had a BMW K75S with ABS for 19 riding seasons, never once used it! Been riding since 1971 and never needed it.

I'm not stupid...If someone wanted to install ABS on my 1200 Sport, I'd say do it.

[Texas Turnip]

With over a quarter million miles on Ambos and eldos, I got used to poor brakes. Same way with the early semi trucks. The brake pedal was pushed to the floor and it felt you were gaining speed. If you were stopping on Fri you had to start on Thurs (Well, not quit that bad.)

I was drunk driving at night over an ice covered bridge when I hit the brakes. ABS didn't help.
Tex

[bad Chad]

I have a b1100, but it doesn't have a super sensitive rear, works just as I would like it to. (shrug)

I also have a v9 with ABS, I know it works as I have intentionaly made it activate, but have yet to feel it in real world riding.   I mostly leave it on, unlike the v85, the amber light doesn't flash, just stays.  At speed of 3.11mph and less ABS automatically deactivates.

Like all safety equipment, it's great to have it when you need it.  But it's certainly not  a deal breaker for any competent rider.

[mtiberio]

My Harley had ABS. Rather than use a tone ring like everyone else in the world (too unsightly), Harley uses a special wheel bearing and sensor. The system doesn't have the sensitivity of a tone ring system. In Washington DC, in Georgetown, there is a hill with a cobblestone street. The hill is right next to the exorcist steps, and is steep. It is where the piedmont plateau had been cut by the Potomac river to the level of the coastal plain. My point? I had taken this street many times with and with out ABS, but on the 800 pound Harley together with the cobblestones, it basically turned off my brakes, and I almost went flying through the stop sign at the bottom onto M street. I hate ABS, and I hate having to bleed ABS systems.

[Motormike]

My Harley had ABS. Rather than use a tone ring like everyone else in the world (too unsightly), Harley uses a special wheel bearing and sensor. The system doesn't have the sensitivity of a tone ring system. In Washington DC, in Georgetown, there is a hill with a cobblestone street. The hill is right next to the exorcist steps, and is steep. It is where the piedmont plateau had been cut by the Potomac river to the level of the coastal plain. My point? I had taken this street many times with and with out ABS, but on the 800 pound Harley together with the cobblestones, it basically turned off my brakes, and I almost went flying through the stop sign at the bottom onto M street. I hate ABS, and I hate having to bleed ABS systems.

THIS!  There's ABS and there's abs.  They are not all the same.  I had a Road Glide with ABS...absolutely hated it.  On numerous occasions, it tried to get me killed.  Pavement ripples leading up to a stop sign or light would drive the rear ABS nuts, causing it to cycle to the point where you effectively had no rear brake.  On wet pavement, I ended up in the middle of an intersection on more than one occasion because the ABS would kick in causing me to overshoot my stopping point. 

On the other hand, BMW's ABS will make a believer out of you.

[borderer]

Not essential UNTIL you need it.. no matter how good a rider you are something will catch you out eventually, It may bring you down, It will certainly scare the shit out of you, it may even kill you. ABS may or may not save you but it may give you another chance and thats nice to have.

[blackcat]

Never had a problem with the ABS system on the Norge, but it's only been used once or maybe twice and that was when I first purchased the bike.

[Dirk_S]

I’d ask the friend if they wear the highest quality gear, including $1,000 helmets, airbag vests, neck protectors, and Kevlar jackets/pants, have been through multiple safety training courses, etc. If their answer is yes, then I’d ask why they haven’t built a roll cage around their bike’s frame yet.

I’ve skidded right into the middle of an intersection once during rain on a motorcycle with ABS in the rain. What is essential is that I need to be more consistent with my own riding skills and have better awareness of environmental conditions in order to be safe and not harm anyone.

Motorcycling is dangerous. Know the risks, practice, execute.

[coast range rider]

es·sen·tial, /əˈsen(t)SHəl/, adjective, 1. absolutely necessary; extremely important.

It is "extremely important" that my motorcycle is fast and comfortable and has ABS. So it is "essential."
But ABS is not "absolutely necessary" in a manner such as having oxygen to breathe and water to drink. So ABS is not "essential."

A more meaningful question involves willingness to risk riding without it, or one's ignorance of the risks and statistics. I am willing to ride without ABS, but feel when riding, it is a worthwhile feature to reduce my overall risks, just as grippy tires are. Grippy tires often don't last as long as others. What is the advantage of not having ABS? I can't remember. In the early days it increased stopping distances. Now?

ABS works effectively on a slippery dirt downhill trail on a minority of bikes. The ABS switch is good to have.

Even at the end of our life it is impossible to know for sure if ABS would have saved our life or did save our life. But it is always possible it will save our life when riding, or maybe even when simply crossing the street in front of one of those invisible motorcycles.

[Dave Swanson]

Nothing much to add.  Many many millions of miles ridden before ABS and the vast majority of folks lived through it.   

The first bike I purchased that had ABS I actually kind of scoffed at the idea, but one day the ABS did actually save my butt.  I might not be here without it.

Even though ABS saved me that day I have ZERO qualms riding a bike without ABS. 

[jwinwi]

With over a quarter million miles on Ambos and eldos, I got used to poor brakes. Same way with the early semi trucks. The brake pedal was pushed to the floor and it felt you were gaining speed. If you were stopping on Fri you had to start on Thurs (Well, not quit that bad.)

I was drunk driving at night over an ice covered bridge when I hit the brakes. ABS didn't help.
Tex

Tex, those Ambos and Eldos definitely had anti lock brakes without any of the cost or complications of ABS! 

[Tusayan]

I’m on a 2000 mile tour at the moment.  On Tuesday my rear brake developed a pinhole leak where the rubber line is swaged into a fitting.  I’ve ordered a replacement to arrive where I’ll be on Saturday and will install/bleed it in an hour, in a parking lot.  Last time I checked you couldn’t do that so easily with an ABS system, pumps etc being in the line, and thinking about it cemented in my mind why I’m not at all interested in ABS: it’s just not part of the simple, elemental motorcycling experience I’ve enjoyed since age nine, decades ago.   What others may think about that is of no interest to me, I’m too busy living my own life based on many years of experience and skill developed along the way.

What would probably be better for my use is a drum rear brake, as per my R100GS on which the rear drum has worked with no service at all except occasional cable adjustments for 106,000 miles, performing well the whole time...  and never leaking a drop of brake fluid.  Drums are not powerful enough for the front brake of a fast motorcycle but they work just fine on the rear, where a tiny disk is now typical.

It’s also nice to have the front brakes entirely isolated from the rear, so that I can ride all the way home without the rear brake should the part not arrive in time.  Simple and straightforward is better in my world.

[MotoG5]

My last two bikes 12' Stelvio NTX and current ride V9 Bobber have had ABS. I have been riding Guzzis for the last fifty years so have plenty of non ABS miles. Obviously ABS is not essential to safely ride a bike. But I must say I do like it on the latest bikes I have owned.
On the two occasions with these two bikes I have had to make what I would call panic stops the ABS functioned very well and was a big plus.