Author Topic: Fixed - 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak  (Read 11916 times)

Offline Solorider73

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2020, 08:55:36 PM »
Hate to be dim, but what exactly am I looking at in those photos? Is it weeping enough to cause a slippery tire, or a low level of oil?

It's hard to see in the pics, but there are oil streaks on the rim and tire.  It's not low on oil yet.  When it happened before, it started as weeping and gradually got worse.
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Offline Off @ 90

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2020, 09:19:17 PM »
When replacing inboard large lip seal there are some pitfalls which some workshops may or may not be aware . First do not push the  lip seal any more than flush with the casing as it can touch the large ball race if pushed too far.
Second check surface on crown gear shaft  where lip seal runs .It  is a good idea to polish this surface ie 1200 wet and dry . I did this job on 750 Breva no leaks now .My Stornello seems Ok at 11000 Kim's. I use non synthetic in FD and change at same time as eng.Hope this is helpful have a Merry Christmas .
Duncan

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2020, 11:40:04 PM »
I ride my V7iii in the rain a lot, water was leaking in at the bottom of the boot and over-filling the hub.
The clip inside the boot is a poor design, it doesn't hold the boot against the bottom of the tunnel, I added some gasket cement and it seems to have stopped the water ingress., I bought a new boot and I will make a revised clip to hold it in place.
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Offline Solorider73

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2020, 08:47:09 AM »
When replacing inboard large lip seal there are some pitfalls which some workshops may or may not be aware . First do not push the  lip seal any more than flush with the casing as it can touch the large ball race if pushed too far.
Second check surface on crown gear shaft  where lip seal runs .It  is a good idea to polish this surface ie 1200 wet and dry . I did this job on 750 Breva no leaks now .My Stornello seems Ok at 11000 Kim's. I use non synthetic in FD and change at same time as eng.Hope this is helpful have a Merry Christmas .

Thanks for the suggestions.
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Offline Solorider73

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2020, 08:50:00 AM »
I ride my V7iii in the rain a lot, water was leaking in at the bottom of the boot and over-filling the hub.
The clip inside the boot is a poor design, it doesn't hold the boot against the bottom of the tunnel, I added some gasket cement and it seems to have stopped the water ingress., I bought a new boot and I will make a revised clip to hold it in place.

So far mine hasn't had any water intrusion.  My oil still looks good and clear.  Sealing up the boot would be good preventative maintenance.
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Wildroamer

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2020, 10:34:35 AM »
Mine developed the leak at a bit under 3,000 miles. It has been "fixed" under warranty and is in storage at the dealership. Next Spring will tell the tale. Fingers crossed it doesn't become an ongoing issue. I doubt that I'll hang on to it if so.

Offline Solorider73

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2020, 10:53:19 AM »
Mine developed the leak at a bit under 3,000 miles. It has been "fixed" under warranty and is in storage at the dealership. Next Spring will tell the tale. Fingers crossed it doesn't become an ongoing issue. I doubt that I'll hang on to it if so.

I really like my V7 and hope a second repair will resolve the issue.  Having said that, if the next repair doesn’t resolve it then it will need a new home.  I generally buy new bikes and this is the first one I’ve ever had a warranty claim against.
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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2020, 11:32:13 AM »
I ride my V7iii in the rain a lot, water was leaking in at the bottom of the boot and over-filling the hub.
The clip inside the boot is a poor design, it doesn't hold the boot against the bottom of the tunnel, I added some gasket cement and it seems to have stopped the water ingress., I bought a new boot and I will make a revised clip to hold it in place.

K-Roy,

Can you give us some photos of the problem, and your solution.

Joe
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Offline kballowe

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2020, 02:08:19 PM »
I look for an API "MT-1" rating.  This is a manual transmission rating and contains a seal conditioner.   Not all gear lubes carry this API certification, nor contain seal conditioners.  It may have nothing to do with a Moto Guzzi rear drive leak, but it certainly would not hurt anything.






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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2020, 03:42:16 PM »
My Castrol choice was a tradeoff: "Castrol SAE 85W-140 [and Castrol SAE 80W-90]; AP Gear Lubricant; 1 Quart; Castrol AP (all-purpose) Gear Lubricant is a multi-purpose, extreme pressure gear oil that has superior thermal durability and will provide transmission, differential and other application protection beyond that specified for the current SAE J2360 (formerly MIL-PRF-2105E), API GL-5 and API MT-1 (80W-90) requirements."

While both were GL-5, only the 80W-90 offered MT-1 while MG specified 85W-140.  And I ride in SoCal summers.  If I get any leakage I'll switch to the 80W-90 for a few K miles.  And if I still get leakage I'll ask for warranty service.

API Gear Oil Specifications

GL-5    Active    The designation API GL-5 denotes lubricants intended for gears, particularly hypoid (see note) gears, in axles operating under various combinations of high-speed/shock load and low-speed/high-torque conditions.

MT-1    Active    The designation API MT-1 denotes lubricants intended for non-synchronized manual transmissions used in buses and heavy-duty trucks. Lubricants meeting the requirements of API MT-1 service provide protection against the combination of thermal degradation, component wear, and oil-seal deterioration, which is not provided by lubricants in current use meeting only the requirements of API GL-1, 4, or 5.

Offline SmithSwede

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #40 on: December 24, 2020, 05:38:31 PM »
Thanks, I was not aware of the MT-1 spec.   More good info here—seems like an attempt to make gear oil have the seal preserving qualities engine oil has. 

https://www.lelubricants.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/techtips/079%20Gear%20Oils.pdf

For what it’s worth, I’ve always run Mobil 1 75W-140 in the final drive, which meets the GL5 spec, but apparently not MT-1.  I’ve never had any problem with leaking, with 100,000 miles so far.     

My hunch is the seal is sensitive to the smoothness of the metal it bears on.  If it’s smooth and set up right, it works a long time and doesn’t leak.  Otherwise, you get problem. 
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Offline kballowe

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2020, 05:55:19 PM »


For what it’s worth, I’ve always run Mobil 1 75W-140 in the final drive, which meets the GL5 spec, but apparently not MT-1.  I’ve never had any problem with leaking, with 100,000 miles so far.  My hunch is the seal is sensitive to the smoothness of the metal it bears on.  If it’s smooth and set up right, it works a long time and doesn’t leak.  Otherwise, you get problem.

Yes, Sir.   That's pretty much it.

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #42 on: December 24, 2020, 10:10:40 PM »
Next Spring will begin year two of my ownership, and warranty. I plan to ride the snot out of it, and hopefully it's smooth sailing. If it has to go in more than once next season for this leak, however, it will be time to think about a lemon law filing. Perhaps that would be the sort of wake-up they need...

Offline mg940

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2020, 03:44:47 AM »
Hi I don't post much but do watch I had a similar issue with my 2013 v7
It had sat for a very long time coastal air causing a number of issues rusty tank etc that I am working through anyway diff started leaking considerably worse than yours unusually for me I started looking at dismantling and replacing seal ( the correct way ) spoke with a work mate a mechanic tells me an old used car dealer trick add a coke bottle cap full of brake fluid to the diff oil it swells and softens the seal since doing this problem solved I was hesitant but figured I would be changing the seal so worth a try worked for me no doubt though if I had warranty I would use it 
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2020, 04:27:02 AM »
K-Roy,

Can you give us some photos of the problem, and your solution.


Joe
Here is the boot and clip removed, the ends of the clip are very sharp its stiff, there's nothing to grab on to. I put a couple of holes in the rubber before I got it apart.

Notice how a large part of the boot is unsupported by the clip, from 7 to 8 O'clock, this just so happened to be right where it gets splashed with water.
From the rust you can tell its been wet in there I figure there must have been at least 50cc of water in the rear hub, there is no seal at the hub inlet shaft.

The easy fix would be to just run around the boot with silicone or some other sealant. If you do this be sure to check the hub for water as well.
You should really drop the swing arm off at some stage to grease the splines, I did mine when I put the new tire on.
I patched up the holes I put in my boot and ordered a replacement, it was quite cheap.
I'm going to make a new clip from a SS bicycle spoke and it will go past 360 with a small bend or loop at each end for circlip pliers. The clip doesn't need to be that strong especially if you have it sealed as well. I will probably wait for the next tire change.
I put some non hardening gasket goo on the flange face where the hub bolts on just to repel water.
At the same time I put a small rubber dam in the tunnel with a drain screw, so far I have had no water ingress in spite of riding in torrential rain.
I might as well show you the drive shaft again. Actually if you click on one of the images you might be able to view the album.

« Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 05:30:03 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #45 on: December 28, 2020, 06:57:42 AM »
Kiwi,
Thank you.  Did you drill + tap for a drain screw?

MG940,
Interesting trick.  I'll retain that.

Joe
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Offline egschade

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #46 on: December 28, 2020, 08:41:24 AM »
Numerous threads on the OEM vent clogging/not working. I went with the banjo bolt and breather hose fix.
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Offline Solorider73

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #47 on: December 28, 2020, 09:16:18 AM »
Numerous threads on the OEM vent clogging/not working. I went with the banjo bolt and breather hose fix.

The problem is that most of those threads the OP never comes back with the actual remedy. It’s just the breather bolt is so bad everyone just assumes that’s the problem. As I had stated, my breather bolt was not stopped up. I pulled the breather bolt off and could hear the bb moving. I could blow through it with no resistance.  I plan to put a banjo bolt on it for preventing maintenance, but I’m confident it’s not the cause of the leak. The first time it leaked it started as a seep and slowly got worse. I suspect smithswede had the right answer, some have poor seal finishes. Time will tell and I will keep updating until it’s fixed or I trade it.
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Offline egschade

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2020, 10:37:50 AM »
The problem is that most of those threads the OP never comes back with the actual remedy. It’s just the breather bolt is so bad everyone just assumes that’s the problem. As I had stated, my breather bolt was not stopped up. I pulled the breather bolt off and could hear the bb moving. I could blow through it with no resistance.  I plan to put a banjo bolt on it for preventing maintenance, but I’m confident it’s not the cause of the leak. The first time it leaked it started as a seep and slowly got worse. I suspect smithswede had the right answer, some have poor seal finishes. Time will tell and I will keep updating until it’s fixed or I trade it.

 :thumb: agreed - similar problems may not have the same solution
The elder Eric in NJ

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1971 Honda SL350

Past Guzzis:
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1985 LeMans 1000
2020 V85TT Adventure
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V7 III Stone
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Offline usedtobefast

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2020, 11:17:23 AM »

Notice how a large part of the boot is unsupported by the clip, from 7 to 8 O'clock, this just so happened to be right where it gets splashed with water.


Would a cable tie work?  Vs the metal clip?  100% coverage all around, pull tight, etc.  Or is there no room? 
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #50 on: December 28, 2020, 01:01:28 PM »
Would a cable tie work?  Vs the metal clip?  100% coverage all around, pull tight, etc.  Or is there no room?
Cable ties were never intended as hose clamps, they just have to hold a cable in place. If you look at a tie it makes a Q shape, it doesn't hold tight where the tail is.
I found a metal clip that seems to do a better job, there are plenty of better clips in a hardware store.
Kiwi,
Thank you.  Did you drill + tap for a drain screw?

MG940,
Interesting trick.  I'll retain that.

Joe
Yes, just a 6mm thread, I have a short bolt with an "O" ring to seal it, inside just beside the hole i glued a small piece of rubber mat. There was a natural spot a few inches from the flange, I can just turn it out with my fingers, picture added. I believe there may have been a fitting at that spot before. ,underneath about 3" from the hub.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2020, 07:13:04 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #51 on: December 30, 2020, 04:38:57 PM »
Thanks Kiwi,
The drain plug is on my list of mods to do.

Joe
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Offline Off @ 90

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #52 on: December 30, 2020, 05:57:41 PM »
FD oil leaking persistently  from cush drive area onto wheel rim .If you have checked the vent is unblocked and your FD oil level is correct then I would be 99% sure one of the the crown shaft lip seals is leaking most probably the large  inboard one. This is a $20 viton seal about 3 hours to change. The hardest thing is getting the inner race of the  roller bearing off  otherwise fairly straight forward. Certainly no need to sell your V7 Guzzi for this problem.
BTW I just use a 5 mm good quality ty- rap  on drive shaft boot .Much kinder than the metal hose clip and seals adequately for my riding conditions .
 Happy New Year.
Duncan
« Last Edit: December 30, 2020, 06:28:05 PM by Off @ 90 »
Duncan

Offline Solorider73

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2021, 06:50:57 PM »
I wanted to provide an update on my rear drive leak.  I took it back to the dealer about a month ago after riding with a weeping rear drive for a while hoping the weep would get worse and easier to find.  When I took it in, the guy at the desk said "it's probably the rear seals, we see those a lot".  I told him they had already changed the rear seals and it didn't solve the problem and to look harder.  Well they called me today to let me know that the rear drive gear had a hairline crack that was allowing oil to bypass the seals.  This makes sense sense because I wouldn't see any weeping until I got around 100 miles on a ride.  It was repaired under warranty.

I'll have to get it home and ride it for the final verdict, but it is promising that they did find a root cause.

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2019 MG V7 lll Stone
2020 MG V85TT Adventure
2021 Royal Enfield Himalayan

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #54 on: July 10, 2021, 09:48:07 AM »
I'm pleased to report that since last December my bike has not leaked again, I'm convinced it was water leaking into the hub via the leaky boot that caused the problem in the first place
Sealing the boot it seems to have fixed the problem, touch wood.
 
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #55 on: July 10, 2021, 04:46:14 PM »
I wanted to provide an update on my rear drive leak.  I took it back to the dealer about a month ago after riding with a weeping rear drive for a while hoping the weep would get worse and easier to find.  When I took it in, the guy at the desk said "it's probably the rear seals, we see those a lot".  I told him they had already changed the rear seals and it didn't solve the problem and to look harder.  Well they called me today to let me know that the rear drive gear had a hairline crack that was allowing oil to bypass the seals.  This makes sense sense because I wouldn't see any weeping until I got around 100 miles on a ride.  It was repaired under warranty.

I'll have to get it home and ride it for the final verdict, but it is promising that they did find a root cause.

 :thumb: 
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Offline Solorider73

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2021, 06:09:25 PM »
Okay a little more information for completeness.  The person I spoke to at the dealership apparently didn't understand the components that were replaced.  According to the bill, the component that had a crack was not the gear assembly, but the hub assembly aka "Flexible Couplings Hub". 

Item 16 in the diagram.


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2020 MG V85TT Adventure
2021 Royal Enfield Himalayan

Offline Off @ 90

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2021, 04:33:04 AM »
Would be interesting to know exactly where the cush drive shaft item  (16) cracked it's a fairly robust steel part.
Duncan

Offline Solorider73

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2021, 09:14:20 AM »
Would be interesting to know exactly where the cush drive shaft item  (16) cracked it's a fairly robust steel part.

Agreed, pretty robust party to fail. However, it has been leaking since new, so it may have been a defective part from new.
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Offline Solorider73

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Re: 2019 V7 III Final Drive Leak
« Reply #59 on: September 09, 2021, 06:54:49 PM »
Okay a little more information for completeness.  The person I spoke to at the dealership apparently didn't understand the components that were replaced.  According to the bill, the component that had a crack was not the gear assembly, but the hub assembly aka "Flexible Couplings Hub". 

Item 16 in the diagram.



I'm at 1200 miles since the hub was replaced with not even a wisp of oil on the rear drive.  I think I will call it fixed at this point.

Thanks for all the input.
Current Stable
2019 MG V7 lll Stone
2020 MG V85TT Adventure
2021 Royal Enfield Himalayan

 


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