Fuel stabilizer killing engines

[john fish]

New video from FortNine about the effectiveness of fuel stabilizers.  With winter coming, well timed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chsGBhB5g7o&ab_channel=FortNine&fbclid=IwAR0diIJIyhqfRRrOnFbaOGq18mQqI665F75Bpscy0CzWzT2WzF5zu4qIYq8

[Dirk_S]

I watched this last night and noticed yet another knock on Seafoam and its effectiveness, (referencing previous discussions about the product).

[Ncdan]

The basis of the entire subject is based on the one issue and it’s not the issue of most of these fuel stabilizers. It’s the Ethanol fuel. Add Seafoam to gasoline without the corn and you have a fuel that can sit in a steel can and stay good for years. I used this mixture in a generator which sat for four years and started on the first pull when the power went out a couple years ago. This was my experience however others may have experienced the opposite.

[PeteS]

I tried Stabil one year. The bike was no easier to start than previous years without out. If the tank comes off easily I just drain it in the fall and fill with fresh gas in the spring. Otherwise I fill the tanks with ethanol free.

Pete

[Guzzistajohn]

Always wondered what the shelf life of Sta-Bil was??

[Perazzimx14]

Please do yourself a favor and look up the MSDS/SDS on these snake oils and you'll fine that you are buying Naphtha and/or kerosene adn 500 to 100% markup.

It is impossible for these products to do what they claim especially in the minute amounts they are called for. Stabil for instance is called to be used at 1 ounce for every 2-1/2 gallons. That 320:1 is a hard effectiveness pill to swallow. Even if you are only trying to combat the 10% ethanol 1 ounce of Stabil would have to somehow neutralize or mitigate upwards of 30 ounces of ethanol in 2-1/2 gallons of E10.

To further the hard work Stabil is claimed to do it is mostly kerosene and red dye so the few percent left over of  the "active" ingredients really must be strong.  At such a small percentage they would have to be 10,000% effective.

Magic is a can is only good at making money disappear from you wallet. It cannot neutralize or eliminate the effects of ethanol. It cannot stop evaporation. It cannot make bad gas good. It cannot stop new gas from aging.

My favorite is Starton "Enzyme". I guess if I fill my gas tank with steaks the enzymes will have proteins to breakdown but used in gasoline since there are no proteins present WTF are enzymes doing?

[Perazzimx14]

Always wondered what the shelf life of Sta-Bil was??

Its good for 12 mounts if you add 1 ounce per gallon of angle tears to it.

[Bulldog9]

Interesting.... I've been using Seafoam for 20 years, not going to stop. Years ago, had some issues with the normal Stabil, and tried the Marine Stabil, is much better. For long term storage, I will drain and clean, but over winter, will use seafom or Marine Stabil. 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Interesting, I used to feel guilty about not using fuel stabilizer over the winter, not any more.

[Wayne Orwig]

New video from FortNine about the effectiveness of fuel stabilizers.  With winter coming, well timed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chsGBhB5g7o&ab_channel=FortNine&fbclid=IwAR0diIJIyhqfRRrOnFbaOGq18mQqI665F75Bpscy0CzWzT2WzF5zu4qIYq8

Oh no. Now we are going to hear from the Seafoam crowd in 3.....2......1.....
 

[jas67]

I drain the fuel tanks and carbs of all my carb'd bikes for the winter -- solves the ethanol problem nicely, and if I happen to not use one of them the following season (happens when you have many of them), it doesn't matter.   I wouldn't want to let even treated fuel in any bike for more than a few months w/o replenishing.

I add stabilizer to my fuel injected bikes, and run them long enough to ensure the fuel gets the whole way through the injectors.
I used to use Seafoam, but, bought Startron the last time, because it was cheaper, and came well recommended.
I usually try to run the fuel down pretty low in the fuel injected bikes before treating them to minimize the amount of old fuel I'l have in the spring.
Then I can add fresh fuel to the tank and have mostly fresh fuel.

My carb'd bikes typically have much longer down time, as I tend to park 'em sooner in the fall, and not get them out until mid-spring.   Some of my fuel injected bikes get ridden year round, as long as there is not frozen or corrosive stuff on the roadsd.

[Murray]

Please do yourself a favor and look up the MSDS/SDS on these snake oils and you'll fine that you are buying Naphtha and/or kerosene adn 500 to 100% markup.

It is impossible for these products to do what they claim especially in the minute amounts they are called for. Stabil for instance is called to be used at 1 ounce for every 2-1/2 gallons. That 320:1 is a hard effectiveness pill to swallow. Even if you are only trying to combat the 10% ethanol 1 ounce of Stabil would have to somehow neutralize or mitigate upwards of 30 ounces of ethanol in 2-1/2 gallons of E10.

I can't say I've looked at these products, i.e. what do you mean you don't ride all year round + corn oil/sugar cane in your fuel is not a thing although they are closing the local refinery so that may change. However from what you've said it sounds like they are a similar process to putting parfin oil in your rain water tank which is a thing here. It floats on the surface and creates a layer stopping mosquitoes and other water bourne bugs from breeding. 1 cup treats a 5000 UK gal tank.

So it seems it might be a similar process the additve creates a layer at the top of the tank stopping the volitiles from evaporating over time, you are treating the aera rather than the volume and the provider has a rough calculation to give users a giude it would also explain the very low ratio's. Surely we have a petroleum type engineer in our midst that might be able to actually explain it properly.

[Perazzimx14]

I can't say I've looked at these products, i.e. what do you mean you don't ride all year round + corn oil/sugar cane in your fuel is not a thing although they are closing the local refinery so that may change. However from what you've said it sounds like they are a similar process to putting parfin oil in your rain water tank which is a thing here. It floats on the surface and creates a layer stopping mosquitoes and other water bourne bugs from breeding. 1 cup treats a 5000 UK gal tank.

So it seems it might be a similar process the additve creates a layer at the top of the tank stopping the volitiles from evaporating over time, you are treating the aera rather than the volume and the provider has a rough calculation to give users a giude it would also explain the very low ratio's. Surely we have a petroleum type engineer in our midst that might be able to actually explain it properly.

I do ride year round but do not ride all the bike year round/ There is also lawn and garden equipment as well as snow removal equipment that sits dormant for months years in-between use.

These Magic's in a can do not claim to put a protective blanket over the fuel to keep volatiles from evaporating they usually claim to mitigate the ill effects of 10% ethanol that is blended into gasoline. 

E10 blended gasoline is all that has been readily avaliable to me for nearly 2 decades. To date the carb on my DR650 has gunked up one time but like Jay talked about, it was my fault. I did not drain the float bowl and the bike sat for 8 or 10 months before I used it. Eve if I'd have put straight gas in it the residue that would have been left over after the fuel evaporated would have done the same thing.

If using "fuel stabilizer" make you feel better I suggest you continue to use it. If you are skeptical about its effectiveness it will do no harm in omitting it. 

[larrys]

I will run the bikes at least once a month through the winter. Never have used any stabilizer. I haven't touched the carbs on my Cal in eighteen years except to adjust the synch. My small engines get the carbs run dry and the tanks pumped dry before any long term storage. I buy Valvetech fuel at the fuel dock for the boat. Supposed to have additives in it to keep it stable. No issues in fifteen years. YMMV.
Larry

[kballowe]

We've been using that alcohol-laced gasoline around here for 25+ years.  The only issues we've had was using leftover Stabil from one year to the next.  Coincidence, maybe.  We've used Seafoam since then.  Cannot prove that it actually works - but it appears that it doesn't do any harm.

It's interesting to note that when purchasing Stihl power equipment, that they will double your warranty if you also purchase their branded 2-stroke oil with the fuel stabilizer in it. 

[craigclu]

I'm lucky to live where I can easily get ethanol-free gasoline.  My cars and cycles get premium non-ethanol fuel as a matter of course.  I'm posting because of an article in the last couple of years in a Classic Motorcar magazine (think that was the name..?) article that I had a trial subscription at the time.  They had tested various methods for dealing with the problems of stored fuel in classic cars that were used very little and /or sporadically.  Simply using ethanol-free premium turned out to be the best as they found 2-3 years of storage in their testing.  The additives in the higher octane fuels had a stabilizing effect.  I had not heard of that before reading their test results.  If I recall correctly, the E85 had measurable deterioration in as little as 30-40 days.  I might be foggy on the details but I recall committing to premium no-alchohol as a matter of course after that and that's even in my lawn tractor and 2 cycle gas.

[Guzzistajohn]

I'm lucky to live where I can easily get ethanol-free gasoline.  My cars and cycles get premium non-ethanol fuel as a matter of course.  I'm posting because of an article in the last couple of years in a Classic Motorcar magazine (think that was the name..?) article that I had a trial subscription at the time.  They had tested various methods for dealing with the problems of stored fuel in classic cars that were used very little and /or sporadically.  Simply using ethanol-free premium turned out to be the best as they found 2-3 years of storage in their testing.  The additives in the higher octane fuels had a stabilizing effect.  I had not heard of that before reading their test results.  If I recall correctly, the E85 had measurable deterioration in as little as 30-40 days.  I might be foggy on the details but I recall committing to premium no-alchohol as a matter of course after that and that's even in my lawn tractor and 2 cycle gas.

I got a terrible thesaurus last Christmas. Not only that, it was terrible.   NOW THAT'S FUNNY!!! 

[john fish]

OP here.  I find it almost impossible to find non-ethanol fuel here so that's not an option for me.
 
I also think that just running a bike for a while in the winter is not a great idea-  just causes condensation in the pipe and engine unless the bike is actually run on the road for a while at full temp.

My V11 Sport and MZ have plastic tanks.  The MZ tank is already quite distorted from ethanol and I'm afraid to remove the Sport tank in case I can't get it back on properly even though it looks fine.  So I drain the plastic tanks.

I like to fill the steel tanks to the brim to prevent rust and I like to use additives in the fuel as a safeguard.  Lately, I've used SeaFoam and Stabil and Lucas Ethanol Fuel Treatment and a little synthetic two stroke oil.  Yeah, it's a belt and braces approach.  :) 

[lucky phil]

I like this guys videos. He starts them all with the basic premise that as a consumer the chances you are getting bullshitted to buy the seller is close to guaranteed. Can't say I find a lot wrong with his logic these days. He then goes on to do what I consider pretty practical and worthwhile tests.
As for Seafoam, well I think anything this popular and raved about as a cure all for everything must be suspect and it appears the MDS bears this out. Looks like it the garage guys version of face Cream, lol.

Ciao 

[kingoffleece]

All I have is anecdotal evidence from the power sports techs I know.  Here in WNY summer/winter toys are put away as a matter of course.
The techs are very grateful for those who put stuff away without stabilizing the fuel.  It's guaranteed income for them, they report.  They  tell me the cleaning/disassemble/reassemble is almost nothing on the properly prepped (as they define it) toys.  The preferred brand by a country mile is Yamaha Fuel Rx and Engine Rx (formally known as Ring Free).  Every two stroke tech around here knows about it.

We use it at the shop in something like 18 different seasonal use tools and such.  Zero issues in the past 9 years.  And that issue was with two sleds.  Strangely enough, one got the Yamaha stuff and the other SeaFoam.  The SeaFoam treated carb went to s**t over the summer.  The other was perfectly serviceable upon the arrival of snow the following winter.  That's what I know from experience.  Snake oil?  Very well could be-or not.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

OP here.  I find it almost impossible to find non-ethanol fuel here so that's not an option for me.

Nothing listed here? https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=WV

[john fish]

Nothing listed here? https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=WV

I've found that site to be out of date.  Every time I hunt down one of the stations, it no longer sells E-free fuel.  I see there are some marinas on there.  Maybe I should try those.

[sign216]

Motorcycle Consumer News did tests a few years back.  They thought stabilizer was effective, and liked Briggs + Stratton's product.  Had some corrosion inhibitors to prevent alcohol deterioration of yellow metals, I think.

Sadly, the magazine closed, so I can't reference their electronic files anymore.

[bad Chad]

Well, it’s sure great to finally nail this one down. 

[nighthawk]

Marvel Mystery Oil works for my Iowa winter storage, and when I still had carbed bikes I always left the gas on with a full tank. Who'd a thunk it...

[kballowe]

Marvel Mystery Oil works for my Iowa winter storage, and when I still had carbed bikes I always left the gas on with a full tank. Who'd a thunk it...

Worked in a bike shop in the late 70's.  We'd occasionally sell a new bike and have it just quit - on the 20 mile ride to town.  Let it cool down, and it would be fine. 

A traveling salesman stopped by and convinced the boss that these brand new bikes needed a bit of upper cylinder lubrication - and sold him a case of Marvel Mystery oil.  "Add eight capfulls to a full tank, and slosh it around real good" he said. 

Ten years later, the owner was still using Marvel Mystery oil, and said that he never had another bike do that.

[Perazzimx14]

Wonder why certain engines would need upper cylinder lubrication for the 1st tank full of fuel then be fine after that?

[twowheeladdict]

I tried Stabil one year. The bike was no easier to start than previous years without out. If the tank comes off easily I just drain it in the fall and fill with fresh gas in the spring. Otherwise I fill the tanks with ethanol free.

Pete

Plastic tanks? 

Here in the humid southeast, draining a metal tank is almost a guarantee of rust unless you fog it with WD40 or oil. 

[Perazzimx14]

There is Sunoco near me that sell E-free gasoline. Its 89 octane and priced like it was bottle of 2002 Cristal.

[twowheeladdict]

There is Sunoco near me that sell E-free gasoline. Its 89 octane and priced like it was bottle of 2002 Cristal.

Still priced less then the rest of the world pays for fuel. 

I remember back when leaded gas was being phased out I would put 1/2 tank of regular leaded and 1/2 tank of premium unleaded.  The gas station attendant hated me.  LOL!  Back then BMW put out a study saying the bikes performed better doing this combination.