Author Topic: P47 Thunderbolt a fresh view (Read 4230 times)

ScepticalScotty · « **on:** November 28, 2020, 04:54:37 AM »

Even since I was 10 years old I thought the P47 was one of the coolest planes of WW2. I suppose it started off when I recieved "Wings" magazine every week for 2 years and build up a really nice library about aircraft, and learned about Gabby Gabreski and the P47, and Richard Johnson (think thats correct), and then the history of Republic (had to wait for that for a bit as it was an alphabetic encyclopaedia!). So I have always said if I was a billionaire I'd fly a P47, a Sea Fury, and er.....reconstruct from scratch a De Havilland Hornet. And a Gladiator. But for years have defended the P47 against all sorts of slights....Maybe I just like underdogs.

Been watching Gregs Airplanes series on the 47 on Youtube. Yep its really long, but its a revelation, and he makes the claim that it was the P47 that substantially destroyed the Luftwaffe at its peak, and that it allowed D-Day to happen pretty much unhindered. He goes into such depth and detail its quite thorough. The daylight raids were not meant to destroy targets, or at least that was a secondary priority (something I never realised) - the priority was shooting down German fighters and killing the pilots. At high altitude where the Thunderbolt was excellent. And low, where it wasnt the fastest but it had a mean punch and was tough as old boots and a plane destroyed on the ground is still destroyed.

Looking at it that way, the P47 did the hard work. Anyway, I'm sure there will be some dissenting views from P51 lovers.

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #1 on:** November 28, 2020, 06:18:42 AM »

Ed the Rocket Scientist's aunt used to ferry P47s.. and others.

Sasquatch Jim · « **Reply #2 on:** November 28, 2020, 06:30:48 AM »

If it got above them they were toast, nothin outdives a Jug and 8 fifty calibers would rain hell on anything below.

Gliderjohn · « **Reply #3 on:** November 28, 2020, 06:41:00 AM »

If given a choice I would have picked the P-47 in the European theatre and the Corsair in the Pacific.
GliderJohn

bacongrease · « **Reply #4 on:** November 28, 2020, 06:52:07 AM »

What's interesting, they designed a supercharger, then built the plane around it.

hauto · « **Reply #5 on:** November 28, 2020, 07:35:59 AM »

https://p47millville.org/ This museum is in my area.If your into P-47 you should try to get there someday.Quite a collection and history going on there.

ozarquebus · « **Reply #6 on:** November 28, 2020, 07:55:15 AM »

Chuck Yeager told a tale where he removed a stump with the wingtip on purpose while flying a p47, he was so confident in its strength.
A design on paper that should not have been as good as it evolved into in practice. Kind of like a Bumble Bee.
Did it ever achieve certification for naval carrier use?

Rough Edge racing · « **Reply #7 on:** November 28, 2020, 08:19:08 AM »

i believe not enough credit is given to the Wildcat , P40 and early models of the P38 that faced the best axis pilots insupposedly better aircraft. many UK and Australian pilots became aces flying the P40 against BF 109E's
P47 was one tough airframe powered by arguably the best piston engine, P&W R2800..There are documented stories of of complete cylinder assemblies being shot off and the P47 still managed to bring it's pilot back home...

Gliderjohn · « **Reply #8 on:** November 28, 2020, 08:52:32 AM »

Check this out.
GliderJohn

Moparnut72 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 28, 2020, 08:59:17 AM »

That was quite common with radials. We had a a Wright come into our shop that had a major failure. One cylinder seized, broke the rod which took out the two adjacent cylinders. The owner was able to fly the plane back to the airport on 4 cylinders. I had many metal slivers in my hands from disassembling that engine. Had a helluva time getting the pistons out of a couple of the cylinders just to save the valves. Interesting fact, Chrysler built more Wrights during the war than Wright did. Also redesigned a few weak spots. I'm my opinion the Wright was a better engine than the Pratt. A lot less complicated in the accessory drive area. We only did a few Pratts while I was there. None of us liked working on the Pratts. We did lots of Wrights and Continentals. Continentals were quite simple and well designed.
kk

Roebling3 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 28, 2020, 10:00:33 AM »

I like the P47 wing plan form; so much that I adapted a P47 RC model wing to a Mustang model, reprofiled the tail feathers, in the same scale..
My intension was a pylon racer. 54" wing span, w/the wing tips clipped.
It's still hard to believe slightly overgrown teenagers were pilots - in the prevailing conditions. R3~

Sasquatch Jim · « **Reply #11 on:** November 28, 2020, 10:20:35 AM »

Awesome display of strength when ordinance attached to the planes' belly explodes and the pilot walks away to change his pants.

Neil · « **Reply #12 on:** November 28, 2020, 10:50:44 AM »

OK then, P51 fan here. However, I will give the Thunderbolt its due. I also have high regard for others- P40, P38 etc. My dad, 8th AF vet, also thought very highly of the P47. Although, most 'any' of the "Little Friends" would have looked good 'up top'.

Two Checks · « **Reply #13 on:** November 28, 2020, 10:56:16 AM »

The P47 was powered by a Pratt & Whitney R -2800, not a Wright.

Chrysler built more Wrights for the B29 than Wright while making 6000 running design changes, doubling the TBO and cutting the cost in half.

Rough Edge racing · « **Reply #14 on:** November 28, 2020, 11:10:39 AM »

Quote from: Moparnut72 on November 28, 2020, 08:59:17 AM

That was quite common with radials. We had a a Wright come into our shop that had a major failure. One cylinder seized, broke the rod which took out the two adjacent cylinders. The owner was able to fly the plane back to the airport on 4 cylinders. I had many metal slivers in my hands from disassembling that engine. Had a helluva time getting the pistons out of a couple of the cylinders just to save the valves. Interesting fact, Chrysler built more Wrights during the war than Wright did. Also redesigned a few weak spots. I'm my opinion the Wright was a better engine than the Pratt. A lot less complicated in the accessory drive area. We only did a few Pratts while I was there. None of us liked working on the Pratts. We did lots of Wrights and Continentals. Continentals were quite simple and well designed.
kk

The Wright 2600 did not have the power required for the P47. The P&W 2800 was originally 2000 hp and eventually to 2500 HP for use in the P47..

ampm7 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 28, 2020, 12:20:46 PM »

Greg's airplanes and automobiles is great for the P-47 info on YouTube. I don't know if any of you guys have seen that episode of "Dogfights" on TV but there is one about a pilot in a P-47 that was all shot up and out of ammo that was chased by one of the top Luftwaffe pilots. Not only did he survive but made it back to England. The Me-109 pilot pulled along side him and waved his wings in tribute and turned away. That metal surrounding the cockpit made the P-47 highly survivable. Another airplane that I really like is the "Mosquito" another good one, among many others such as, FW-190, P-38, P-51, Me-109, F4U Corsair, Zero, Hellcat etc. etc...

ozarquebus · « **Reply #16 on:** November 28, 2020, 12:47:22 PM »

In reading aviation books for years, it appears a lot about how 'good' a particular airplane was revered had a lot to do with how and where it was deployed and who it was fighting against.
For example, the P40 was always described as a dud, but lately it has been getting a lot of praise.
Even the lowly Brewster Buffalo was a pretty good plane. If it had a better landing gear, it could have gone toe to toe with a zero in its original configuration before Naval committees got hold of it and made it gain 1000lbs of extra weight. It was even ready in 1938. The orphan of a design failed naval deployment and was given to Finland and England and was used with considerable success as a land based interceptor in WWII after they stripped it down and slicked it up.

Off @ 90 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 28, 2020, 03:47:34 PM »

The P47 was a bit unusual having a turbo charger in the rear fuselage with exhaust and inlet ducts running under pilot seat . This gave the P47 it's distictive deep oval fueselage . You can see the turbo exhaust duct in the rear fuselage. I built a RC model of it flew very well.

JJ · « **Reply #18 on:** November 28, 2020, 06:09:42 PM »

A beautiful, vintage plane for sure!!

ozarquebus · « **Reply #19 on:** November 28, 2020, 07:30:14 PM »

What? No Love for the Brewster Buffalo?

Canuck750 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 28, 2020, 08:16:02 PM »

46 liter, 16 cylinder, twin radial, supercharged, heavily armed and armoured, what's not to love about that!

The P51 may have been the Ducati bevel twin of its day while the P47 was the V7 Sport; rock solid, dependable and cool.

Moparnut72 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 28, 2020, 08:31:40 PM »

My uncle had to get out of his P51 over France. Maybe if he had a radial up front he might have made it home. I think he flew a P38 before being moved to a P51. He finished the war in Stalag 17 after a stint in the slave labor camp Buchenwald
kk.

Two Checks · « **Reply #22 on:** November 28, 2020, 10:12:03 PM »

There was a prototype P-47 that used an experimental inverted Chrysler V-16 Hemi head engine but it came too late in the war to be practical with jets coming on line.

Moparnut72 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 28, 2020, 10:36:49 PM »

I think there were only a couple of prototypes built.
kk

ScepticalScotty · « **Reply #24 on:** November 29, 2020, 03:29:36 AM »

Actually Oz I don't mind the Buffalo, but like one of the other posters said, weighed down with lots of extra stuff it didn't go so well. I do love that style of fighter; Buffalo, Wildcat, I-16 and of course the one from my country the CAC Boomerang! Which I would add to my billionaires list.

Test pilot Bill Waterton had a Gladiator on hand at Glosters airfield for his own personal use, and said that flying it was "real flying" compared to the jets he flew for a living. When it was all getting a bit too much for him (the paperwork, the management BS, the lack of respect for pilots, average pilots who would have to fly these things) he would take the Gladiator up for an hour of aerobatics and come down a happy fellow. His book "The Quick and the Dead" is a great first hand account of 1940s and 50s test piloting, warts and all.

Old Jock · « **Reply #25 on:** November 29, 2020, 03:53:03 AM »

No idea who originally coined the addage I read it in one of Roland Beaumont's book and I paraphrase

After the Spitfire the P-47 cockpit was very roomy and RAF pilots said that there was no need to manoevure the aircraft to take avoiding action in a dogfight.

One could merely unbuckle the straps and run around the cockpit

Good aircraft from what I've learned of it with an absolutely amazing engine, I believe it was turbo-supercharged.

Radials are a huge tribute to the engineer's ability proving what can be achieved and made to work.

ozarquebus · « **Reply #26 on:** November 29, 2020, 05:07:15 AM »

Though not a Double Thunderbolt, the "jet killer" P47M reportedly could do better than 500mph on emergency power at optimal altitude while the fastest war Mustang F51H was slower (470?) while the P47M was operational earlier as well.

If you like one p-47, you will like this one twice as much. The "Double D" You got your regular 8 50 cal MGs PLUS a couple of 37mm cannons.

kingoffleece · « **Reply #27 on:** November 29, 2020, 06:41:08 AM »

Not to mention the incredible heroics of all the guys who flew............... ........anything. Just kids, for cryin' out loud.
I remember my dad, a B-24 pilot based out of Darwin, telling me "...............they told me to get in the plane, fly it over there, drop the bombs, and fly it home. So that's what I did."

Rough Edge racing · « **Reply #28 on:** November 29, 2020, 08:15:21 AM »

PBS aired a documentry , Fighter pilot's story . It's the memories of P47 pilot in combat...Notable was his narrative of straffing long lines of German troops and equipment late in the war..The Germans ripped to pieces by the 8 Browning 50 caliber guns in each P47... He did this on many sorties until the sheer horror of it all froze his hand so he could no longer fire the guns..He was unable to fly for several days...On one occasion his P47 was shot up so badly the plane broke in half when it landed..He walked away from the wreck..

JJ · « **Reply #29 on:** November 29, 2020, 10:02:42 AM »

Always thought these were cool...the legendary P-38 Lightning!!

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Author Topic: P47 Thunderbolt a fresh view (Read 4230 times)

Rough Edge racing

Rough Edge racing

Rough Edge racing