Cost of Restoration vs Bike Values

[steven c]

 Or you can look at it this way, you spend 10 grand restoring a bike you end up with a new bike (talking full restoration here) that you can't buy new anymore. You can buy the looks of an old bike now a days, but your not getting the same feeling, handling, sounds and smells with a modern bike.

[Dave Swanson]

I agree, wrenching and restoring is not everyone's cup o tea.   There is no reason why it should be. 

For myself, bringing a neglected bike back to life is therapeutic.   Working well with a machine and bringing it back to the best state that I can make it is more of a mental journey for me than a physical one.  My personal code is to never leave anything undone on a bike that will generate  negative feelings.   I have rushed through certain aspects of a restoration only to go back and do it over again to remove the dissonance.  When I am completely at peace with the a particular part of the bike I am working on that is my end goal. 

As Robert Pirsig said, "the real cycle you are working on is a cycle called yourself".

[JJ]

If you are not going to restore it yourself, then "pay a little extra"...and buy one already restored.  Best advice, IMHO.

Other than a new motorcycle, there is nothing like a restored, "turn-key" motorcycle that needs nothing...

[Chuck in Indiana]

I'm late to this thread, but you already gave the answer in your first post. 

When the real Guzzi guys made statements like: " buy the best bike you can afford" and " restorations are a labor of love and a money losing proposition" I read the words, but did not comprehend the reality of their truth.

Unless you can do *and* enjoy the work, *and* have a good model to restore like BC..don't even think about doing a restoration.

That said, I have now had 17 Guzzis. Big block, small block, 2V, 4V. Most were non runners, but were all there. Building a motorcycle one part at a time is prohibitively expensive. I consider the costs involved in bringing them back from the grave worth it if for no other reason than in increasing my education. Education is *expensive*.  If my labor of love is free, I didn't lose much money doing that.

[PeteS]

I agree, wrenching and restoring is not everyone's cup o tea.   There is no reason why it should be. 

For myself, bringing a neglected bike back to life is therapeutic.   Working well with a machine and bringing it back to the best state that I can make it is more of a mental journey for me than a physical one.  My personal code is to never leave anything undone on a bike that will generate  negative feelings.   I have rushed through certain aspects of a restoration only to go back and do it over again to remove the dissonance.  When I am completely at peace with the a particular part of the bike I am working on that is my end goal. 

As Robert Pirsig said, "the real cycle you are working on is a cycle called yourself".

There was a collision man, craftsman actually who worked for my Dad who could and did everything to restore cars and motorcycles and even raced cycles into his 80s. He had a sign over his toolbox.

"Why is there never time to do it right but always time to do it again?"

Pete

[s1120]

You also need to think if you really want a restoration or do you just want to fix it up. There is a difference. Im not one for restoring stuff... I just dont have it in me. But I LOVE fixing up something old and broken. I get huge joy in bringing something that was pretty much left for scrap, and getting it running and driving/riding again. It might not be pretty...  and it might look a little mismatched..  but its really something to think about. You can rebuild, without restoring.

[ozarquebus]

I should have clarified my version of "restoration" probably is what s1120 and others would refer to as refreshing or fixing up just getting into good riding form with presentable looks better than Rat Bike.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I started with this, purchased for $1150 delivered:




$3k and many hours of labor later, I had this:




That was three years and nearly 20k miles ago. Worth every penny and hour I spent.

[Dave Swanson]

I started with this pile of rubble that wasn't cheap.  What you are seeing is the sad state of a HD 1956 KHK.  The flathead predecessor to the Sportster.   

This bike had been close to going to the trash heap. 





And after 6 years of intense searching for parts and emptying of the wallet many times I ended up with this.  Did it make any economic sense?  I don't think so, but I loved saving it from obscurity. 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Yeah, that's a beauty all right, Dave.  There is satisfaction in doing something like that.. that is very hard to quantify.

[TN Mark]

If old bikes were "worth" restoring, you'd see bike shops selling bikes they restored. But the money isn't made restoring a bike and selling it. The money is made having someone else pay you to restore their bike. The reasons to do it for yourself is because you like the work and would enjoy riding a rebuilt whatever it is you started with. It is rarely a way to get into a bike cheaply.

This is an excellent perspective.

I once sunk way more into a 1978 G5 than it could ever have been worth, to anyone. Sure it was a fun bike to ride but it was also a 1978 G5 and lacked a lot of 'modern' attributes. I also did 95% of the work myself. The perspective is wide spread and applies to many things though. Why would anyone spend 2x, 3x or more of the value of a motorcycle to 'restore' it unless they had a specific emotional attachment to it? If it belonged to a family member or a friend etc. Even then, they need to weigh the cost versus the real and the imagined benefit.   

The people who only trust a bike they've worked on are a bit odd as well. Do they feel that same way about their car, truck, bicycle, computer or washing machine? Modern motorcycles are overwhelmingly reliable. Plus many can be bought with 'classic' aesthetics. It also points to the feeling that after all their work, their knowledge and their skill being applied to every system, they still expect it to breakdown along the side of the road somewhere.

The buy the best running Convert you can afford is also excellent advise. As had been mentioned, a Convert is an oddball product from an oddball manufacturer with an amazingly small fan base that would even consider purchasing one. And then, for much closer to your original, pre restoration price, not your after restoration total cost, minus any labor.

I've had 3 Converts over the years and enjoyed them all, a lot. But I'd never consider buying one knowing it needed even a partial restoration let alone needing any unique Convert parts. Unless I had a lot of spare time available, I'd also not consider getting on a Convert and going across the country anyway. For me, that's an adventure better suited to a much more modern motorcycle. Unless there's a chase vehicle for a bunch of us riding old classics on trips they were better suited for when they were new.

Sell everything but the SP you seem to want to keep. Use that money to help buy a new(er) Royal Enfield and have a blast riding that Classic bike anywhere, worry free.

 Hmm, then again, I never had a Cal II Auto.

[radguzzi]

I have been buying parts for my Convert over a period of years.  That way I have no idea how much it will cost to restore.     And I don't really care, I just want a nice Convert someday.

This...

I too spent more on the recently acquire Convert than I probably should have to recommission it...  I did a few things that I "Wanted" to do vs Needed.  Oh well.  Cost is a relative thing, mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter. 

The old rig has turned out to be a great addition to my riding stable. 

Cheers,
Rob




Look at Charlie's work on his Convert, such a great, reliable ride, now.  Check out Dave Swanson's restorations, just wow.  Manu others here as well.  To bring them back from the brink, you must spend the funds And time to do the job correctly.  IMHO.

Peter Egan's has a famous story about the "free" Norton Commando he restored.  The Commando was a gift as long as Peter promised to restore it.  In the end the free Commando cost him $10,500.  He finished it about 6 years ago. 

https://www.cycleworld.com/2014/12/03/1974-norton-850-commando-restoration-photo-gallery-new-life-for-an-old-britbike-peter-egan/

Now, to be the devil's advocate.. I will add this to bolster the original poster's view about value.

Peter Egan (I feel he and I are connected as do many, he is an everyman) also wrote an article about the restoration of a '73 MGB that cost him plenty, many years ago BTW...

He did not regret the cost however, he did go on to say that he has the Best $8000 MGB that $12,000 can buy. 

All the best,
Rob

[Chuck in Indiana]

I'd also not consider getting on a Convert and going across the country anyway. For me, that's an adventure better suited to a much more modern motorcycle. Unless there's a chase vehicle for a bunch of us riding old classics on trips they were better suited for when they were new.

I respectfully disagree.  I wouldn't give a second thought to riding my "old" bikes across the country.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I respectfully disagree.  I wouldn't give a second thought to riding my "old" bikes across the country.

Same here. Well, except maybe the Sears Allstate... 

[John Ulrich]

I was a part owner of a car restoration / vintage racing shop for a number of years.  I remember a customer coming in to us with an old Porsche and asking what it would cost to restore it.   “The best thing you can do with that car is give it away.”

I had a customer give the family boat to his son in law one winter.  I knew immediately why!

[wirespokes]

I wouldn't hesitate to ride any of my 70s and 80s bikes across the country. I have multiple times, and I've ridden them all over Oregon, Washington and California. Into Canada as well.

These Guzzis, once sorted are rock solid and run forever. Same with my old airheads. I've never abused them (don't always know how the POs treated them) but once I know I can trust them, I have no qualms riding anywhere. I'm sure you guys feel the same way, but I'll say it anyway - ride it like a racer and stuff will break. But ride it like transportation and it'll stay together.

[Canuck750]

I agree, wrenching and restoring is not everyone's cup o tea.   There is no reason why it should be. 

For myself, bringing a neglected bike back to life is therapeutic.   Working well with a machine and bringing it back to the best state that I can make it is more of a mental journey for me than a physical one.  My personal code is to never leave anything undone on a bike that will generate  negative feelings.   I have rushed through certain aspects of a restoration only to go back and do it over again to remove the dissonance.  When I am completely at peace with the a particular part of the bike I am working on that is my end goal. 

As Robert Pirsig said, "the real cycle you are working on is a cycle called yourself".

That about sums it up for me. 

I don't think I ever ask is it worth it? Worth is not limited to financial return on investment, how many people get paid to golf? not many, yet plenty of folks pay to chase a ball around a field. Now that doesn't make sense to me......

[Guzzistajohn]

I respectfully disagree.  I wouldn't give a second thought to riding my "old" bikes across the country.

Same here. I was riding my old CX all over the place in the *late* '80's and I'm confident it is just as capable today maybe more so. The question is.....am I?

[larrys]

I have restored a few bikes, a few boats, and bunches of old motors and machines. Do it to save the machine and provide oneself with quality entertainment by doing something with one's hands.
Larry

[AJ Huff]

The thing to do is to pump $7500 into it and then complain when one sells for that much on eBay, BAT, etc.

-AJ

[pete mcgee]

Having done a full rebuild on a mk3 kemans 25 yrs ago, I feel qualified to answer.
1 You love the bike and riding it
2 It ticks useful boxs like good fuel range, ability to put feet on the ground, goes wll etc
3 Forget making money out of it
4 You want the reliability youve heard the marque can achieve but never actually witnessed
5 You love a challenge and have the skills to do it yourself.
Money spent on a rebuild can be looked at in 2 ways, an investment into something you love or a complete  waste of time and money.
Over the long run and in my case talking 25 years, it paid for itself in the knowledge I gained and the reliability and looks of my bike.
Knowing where everything was, fixing the known issues, taking the $$ hit up front and then only having to spend money on routine servicing costs over the next 110,0000 miles has worked well for me.
The theme running above seems to be I dont want to pay anything for this bike, but when I sell it I want double what I put into it.
Life isnt a scripted tv rebuild show,
YMMV...

[garbln]

I have "restored" a few bikes and refurbished a few.  When "restoring" never total up how much it costed, you lost money.  It also took you twice as long you thought it would.  Only restore a bike you love or have special connection to, you will need that extra passion to carry you through the discouraging times when you are ready to chuck the whole project out.  Regarding buying a restored bike, there's restored and then there's restored?  I've seen people get stung on "museum" restorations so check any restored bike very carefully.