Steering damper

[Tom]

Nope. Well within range.

Worn tires will give wonky steering.  The V11 Sports will let you know when it's time to change a front tire.     BTDT

[John Croucher]

John Croucher, did you fit that steering damper to an EV?

Yes, 2003 model.  I used a piece of 3/8 × 3/4 bar stock to remount Regulatory rectifier and on left end extended and mounted damper bracket.

[lucky phil]

That damper fitment looks very, umm,ummmm, interesting.

Ciao 

[Huzo]

That damper fitment looks very, umm,ummmm, interesting.

Ciao

Would probably function acceptably when the ‘bars are central or thereabouts.
But as you intimate, things might get a bit gnarly at full lock in U turns. Suffice to say, that the force vectors on this  one are resolved into one 90 deg to steering stem axis and one parallel to it. It’s the one 90 deg to the stem axis that is doing the “job”.
So from that perspective it’ll work as intended, but some wasted motion exists..

[Huzo]

What is the benefit of motorcycles's steering dampers? My Nevada does not have one, but I assume some bigger Moto Guzzi models have those?
If you have one and you would take it away, how/what would you notice?

Are those used only with much heavier bikes (because of weight?) or more power full bikes (helps if riding really fast?) Or are those just come to common use in few years time (my bike being simply too old?).

As mentioned earlier in reply #20, if you were to ride your bike at cruising speed and was able to put a dial gauge against the end of one handlebar, you’d notice a very slight oscillation which is continuous countersteering occurring.
The “damper” is supposed to have a small amount of allowance in the mounting plate to let this minute oscillation occur. If it does not, the bike will enter a never ending (hopefully), series of staggers from one side to the other as the countersteering force manages to overcome the damper.
Not a nice situation.
The damper is not there to quell this oscillatory motion essential to maintain balance, it’s supposed to “catch” the steering movement when it exceeds the necessary range.
If you think for one second that your ‘bars are not flopping from side to side under normal cruising conditions..
Update your life insurance and set up an experiment on a push bike with a length of 10mm square wood 500 mm long.
Secure one end under the seat just below the wedding tackle and the other end on the extremity of one handlebar. As you ride away allow the handlebar to slide over the wood, then take a deep breath and clamp it hard with your hand, essentially to prevent the countersteering process.
Just like my wedding night, you won’t stay upright for long...
Of course a properly designed hydraulic damper has the benefit of variation in resistance as a function of piston velocity.
Put simply it means that if you move your ‘bars slowly the resistance will be small, but will increase exponentially with frequency and amplitude.

[John Croucher]

Would probably function acceptably when the ‘bars are central or thereabouts.
But as you intimate, things might get a bit gnarly at full lock in U turns. Suffice to say, that the force vectors on this  one are resolved into one 90 deg to steering stem axis and one parallel to it. It’s the one 90 deg to the stem axis that is doing the “job”.
So from that perspective it’ll work as intended, but some wasted motion exists..

The pictures I posted of my set up are distorted.  The damper is installed 90 degrees from the steering stem and inline with the front to rear of the frame and rotates freely thru the full range of lock to lock.  I works very well with no friction or binding.  It would be a highly unusual situation for the front end to be turned more than a few degrees left or right while underway and cause the loss of resistance or binding as you describe.  The swivel eyes at both mounting point allow smooth movements as it moves and the angles change relative to the lower triple tree and the frame. 

The mounting points for the swivel mounts have to be solid and able to take the shock of the inputs from the front wheel trying to turn. 

Most input's while riding are a slight push in the opposite direction of the turn and the bikes falls into the turn with out over steering.   Turning or having the front rotate 10 or more degrees while riding is situation I would really hate to be in.   

It can easily be reached from the seat to adjust the amount of force.  Increasing the force to move/turn while on the open road or interstate makes a huge difference in tracking.  During load speed and riding on roads with lots of curves, the light setting is much better to allow quicker input movements.  In a parking lot on the most resistance setting and pushing the bike, it is hard to push the bars stop to stop. 

I like the way it works and makes a huge difference while riding for the better.  The old style friction set up is actually quite primitive and not really functional as intended.

[Huzo]

The pictures I posted of my set up are distorted.  The damper is installed 90 degrees from the steering stem and inline with the front to rear of the frame and rotates freely thru the full range of lock to lock.  I works very well with no friction or binding.  It would be a highly unusual situation for the front end to be turned more than a few degrees left or right while underway and cause the loss of resistance or binding as you describe.  The swivel eyes at both mounting point allow smooth movements as it moves and the angles change relative to the lower triple tree and the frame. 

The mounting points for the swivel mounts have to be solid and able to take the shock of the inputs from the front wheel trying to turn. 

Most input's while riding are a slight push in the opposite direction of the turn and the bikes falls into the turn with out over steering.   Turning or having the front rotate 10 or more degrees while riding is situation I would really hate to be in.   

It can easily be reached from the seat to adjust the amount of force.  Increasing the force to move/turn while on the open road or interstate makes a huge difference in tracking.  During load speed and riding on roads with lots of curves, the light setting is much better to allow quicker input movements.  In a parking lot on the most resistance setting and pushing the bike, it is hard to push the bars stop to stop. 

I like the way it works and makes a huge difference while riding for the better.  The old style friction set up is actually quite primitive and not really functional as intended.

Ok.
I didn’t raise the point but I did agree it looks like it’s not square and still does, but if you say it is then it is.
A side on shot would have been good.

[dustybarn]

I stuck a VW Bug steering damper on my Eldo hack.  It really helped with the stock front end and with tightening up the steering neck bearings.

I've got a Bug damper on my Ambo rig. I realized its value when one of the mounting bolts fell out and I got into a nasty headshake, fortunately it happened at low speed in a parking lot.

[John A]

I got a Matris from MG cycle twenty years ago and it has been flawless, even after  I put the sidecar on .
A steering  damper is one of those things that you don’t need until you do... https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=115

[Tom]

A steering damper is needed on a hack.

[John A]

A steering damper is needed on a hack.

I forgot to say that I’ve only had the hack on for maybe eight years so I’ve tested it . Once in northern Minnesota I was riding in a stiff crosswind so I had the damper one click from full on when it’s usually one click from full off. I rode into a town and it didn’t take long to realize the steering was about locked.
https://youtu.be/tcgCu_pdZ4s   This is a video of a steering damper helping when you hit a deer. (not me)

[BrotherJim]

I've found on my '02 CalStone that the long wheelbase tends to offer enough stability that a steering damper is not needed.  For those who don't know much about the particular unit on these bikes, they will say that it looks cool.  I'm running mine with virtually zero tension.  If I'm running luggage with a bit of extra weight or a passenger, I would turn to the preload adjustment of my rear shocks, not a steering damper.  I've always felt like a bike like my Buell S2 Thunderbolt could benefit from a steering damper.  Compared to the Cali, the wheelbase is shorter and the rake of the forks is much steeper, making the handling a lot quicker.  After ten years or so riding the S2 I've learned to live with it, mainly because I didn't want to spend the kind of money being asked for units that work with this bike.  Eric Buell says that adding a steering damper to his bikes is cheating.   

[Tom]

I ride mostly mountain roads out here.  A steering damper is useful on the hack and on my Cali III.  If it was flat like the Midwest then probably not.   

[Tusayan]

Tank slappers happen! More often on sportbikes than cruisers or traditional cycles.

FWIW I had a single violent tank slapper on both my early LeMans and 1000 SP...   in both cases with the steering damper removed.  Might be a lesson in there somewhere  but the old style telescopic dampers made the bike steer strangely when tightened, even hydraulic dampers, just like too tight steering head bearings, so I never liked them.  More recently manufacturers have implemented better designs, for example BMW put a damper on their telelever bikes (or some of them) that did not act at all unless the bars were turning at a high rate.  You could feel it engage by swinging the bars quickly from lock to lock with the front wheel in the air.  I haven’t caught up on what others may have done with steering dampers as my older Ducatis have very conservative geometry and don’t need one.

Worn front tires definitely do promote head shake.  It has to do with the reduction in contact patch size when the tire is worn to a V-shaped profile.  This leads to a lot less damping of the oscillation.

[DaveJT]

FWIW I had a single violent tank slapper on both my early LeMans and 1000 SP...   in both cases with the steering damper removed.  Might be a lesson in there somewhere  but the old style telescopic dampers made the bike steer strangely when tightened, even hydraulic dampers, just like too tight steering head bearings, so I never liked them.  More recently manufacturers have implemented better designs, for example BMW put a damper on their telelever bikes (or some of them) that did not act at all unless the bars were turning at a high rate.  You could feel it engage by swinging the bars quickly from lock to lock with the front wheel in the air.  I haven’t caught up on what others may have done with steering dampers as my older Ducatis have very conservative geometry and don’t need one.

Worn front tires definitely do promote head shake.  It has to do with the reduction in contact patch size when the tire is worn to a V-shaped profile.  This leads to a lot less damping of the oscillation.

Excellent point. I try not to think too much about “contact patch”. It’s alarmingly small.

[John Croucher]

FWIW I had a single violent tank slapper on both my early LeMans and 1000 SP...   in both cases with the steering damper removed.  Might be a lesson in there somewhere  but the old style telescopic dampers made the bike steer strangely when tightened, even hydraulic dampers, just like too tight steering head bearings, so I never liked them.  More recently manufacturers have implemented better designs, for example BMW put a damper on their telelever bikes (or some of them) that did not act at all unless the bars were turning at a high rate.  You could feel it engage by swinging the bars quickly from lock to lock with the front wheel in the air.  I haven’t caught up on what others may have done with steering dampers as my older Ducatis have very conservative geometry and don’t need one.

Worn front tires definitely do promote head shake.  It has to do with the reduction in contact patch size when the tire is worn to a V-shaped profile.  This leads to a lot less damping of the oscillation.

The unit I am using can be adjusted to control the rate/speed of movement while rotating the front end.  This feels like it makes the handlebars hard to turn when in reality the adjusting of the fluid orifice is controlling the rate of fluid flow. Not making friction of rubber against a metal shaft.   The oem rubber bushing only provides resistance in turning the handlebars and does not provide any stopping from sudden rapid unintended forces during movement.