NGC Where do all the Harleys come from?

[lucky phil]

Their widows are selling them, 'cause the dudes all caught - at Sturgis.  ;)

Realistically, times are hard right now, and probably a lot of riders for whom it's just a hobby are (a) not riding much right now because of the pandemic, and/or (b) need money right now due to job loss, or business downturn.

PhilB

Funnily enough bike and car sales have been booming here during - and I see on the news business output both up past pre - levels in the US and China. Surprising.
   

Ciao

[DaveJT]

I bought 7 bikes in 2020. Having cash in hand an ready to spend it works wonder in getting deals on used bikes.

Heck the last bike I bough back in mid December I made the seller an offer in early November. He declined and said sorry the bike was already sold. 6 weeks later out of the blue I get a PM from the seller asking if I was still interested. I PM'ed him back and said yes I was interested and my original offer ($800 lower than he was asking) was valid. To be honest his asking price very fair. He said how about $200 off what he was asking I said nope my offer original stands. I told him I'm a no BS buyer and if he accepted my offer I'd send him a $100 non-refundable deposit via PayPal to show I'm serious and I'd pick the bike up the next day. He said he was tired of people with no money trying to buy his bike wasting his time and to come and get the bike.

Sometimes you need to let the deal dwell for a while but when it comes around you need to be able to react quickly.

Seven bikes? Would you mind terribly listing what’s in your current collection in your signature block/footer

[jumpmaster]

I like this pic...It makes my Guzzi look like a mini bike!

Are you the guy who bought the "unusual" colored Guzzi featured & roundly criticized by most on this forum a couple of months ago?  FWIW, I agreed with the minority in finding the color kind of different in a good way...except that I would have preferred natural or white wheels.

[garbln]

I know of a few guys who after raising a family etc. finally bought the Harley they always wanted.  Then discovered the reality of riding a MC, sometimes too hot, sometimes too cold, getting caught in the rain, getting the $hit scared out of them after getting nearly run over by an inattentive driver, etc.  It just wasn't exactly what they imagined it would be, so after a year or two they just parked the thing in the back of the garage till they decided to sell it a few years later.  I think it's a common story.

[Canuck750]

Harleys are very popular here, I live in a city of about 1 million, a traditional working mans town, and there are two big HD dealerships here that do quite well. The majority of bikes for sale are Harleys, most fairly new models. The downturn in the oil industry has been very hard on many and - has just been brutal on the economy. Its a sad indicator of hard times.

[Tiki Joe]

Are you the guy who bought the "unusual" colored Guzzi featured & roundly criticized by most on this forum a couple of months ago?  FWIW, I agreed with the minority in finding the color kind of different in a good way...except that I would have preferred natural or white wheels.

I recently bought it out of California....I call it the Teal Miami Vice special!  I bought it with the intention of saving it and getting it back to a proper Italian paint job.  It's getting torn down real soon for paint and powder coat.

[willowstreetguzziguy]

I know of a few guys who after raising a family etc. finally bought the Harley they always wanted.  Then discovered the reality of riding a MC, sometimes too hot, sometimes too cold, getting caught in the rain, getting the $hit scared out of them after getting nearly run over by an inattentive driver, etc.  It just wasn't exactly what they imagined it would be, so after a year or two they just parked the thing in the back of the garage till they decided to sell it a few years later.  I think it's a common story.

Exact thing happened next door to me.

[rocker59]

Whenever I check Craigslist in my area and in other areas, half to a third of the bikes listed are Harleys.

Today, 62 of 118 are Harleys.  These were bought by riders. Did they give up riding? Did they move on to another bike?   

Where did all these Harleys come from?

There are so many for sale on all Craigslists that if I was in the market for a Harley, I would have a field day looking for one!!!

Since HD has owned 50% of the street bike market in The USA for most of the past three decades, it's no wonder that they are heavily represented in the used bike advertisements.

[lucky phil]

Whenever I check Craigslist in my area and in other areas, half to a third of the bikes listed are Harleys.

Today, 62 of 118 are Harleys.  These were bought by riders. Did they give up riding? Did they move on to another bike?   

Where did all these Harleys come from?

There are so many for sale on all Craigslists that if I was in the market for a Harley, I would have a field day looking for one!!!

For quite some time Harley actually made the bulk of their profit not from the bikes they made but from the finance they provided to buy them. So the point to the product was to generate a finance deal. Hence when there's an economic downturn they lose not only on the finance when repossessions occur but there's a glut of near new bikes on the market. There was a buoyant trade in them here for a while in Aus. Repossessed Harleys in the US shipped over here and sold. A friend of mine bought one of the hideous things. Some massive full dresser with all the fruit.
Ciao   

[LowRyter]

I just read that Harley is dropping the "Street Series" 500 and 750 bikes.   Shelved like the VRod. 

[Kev m]

I just read that Harley is dropping the "Street Series" 500 and 750 bikes.   Shelved like the VRod.

The real question is what are they planning.

The Sportsters are almost gone and the NAME isn't even on the website- they are in a category now called "Street".

The Street models people thought might replace the Sportsters are gone.

The modular 60 degree LC motors that SEEMED to be a better development of the Street motors are due to debut in the PA in a few months, and I THINK one of the other models may still be in the planning, but at least one of the LC platforms has been placed on "hold."

Oh, and last year they filed a patent for a 4V head motor similar to the M8, but everyone was thinking it could be an air-cooled Sportster replacement, which doesn't seem to make sense now but who knows.

So will they:

* Abandon their entry level products and move entry level upscale to the Softails
* Develop a new air-cooled model to replace the Sportster under the Street moniker
* Develop a new LC model to replace the Sportster under the Street moniker
* Fill the bottom in with a rebadged imported bike like they are doing overseas in Asia

I dunno.... but I guess time will tell. Weird though.

[bigbikerrick]

I dunno about The Motor Company's future plans, but the have got to do something I dont think they are going to make it any longer selling a "lifestyle"...Maybe they should start building side by sides!
Rick.

[Kev m]

I dunno about The Motor Company's future plans, but the have got to do something

They're still selling over 200k bikes/year last I checked.

[LowRyter]

The real question is what are they planning.

The Sportsters are almost gone and the NAME isn't even on the website- they are in a category now called "Street".

The Street models people thought might replace the Sportsters are gone.

The modular 60 degree LC motors that SEEMED to be a better development of the Street motors are due to debut in the PA in a few months, and I THINK one of the other models may still be in the planning, but at least one of the LC platforms has been placed on "hold."

Oh, and last year they filed a patent for a 4V head motor similar to the M8, but everyone was thinking it could be an air-cooled Sportster replacement, which doesn't seem to make sense now but who knows.

So will they:

* Abandon their entry level products and move entry level upscale to the Softails
* Develop a new air-cooled model to replace the Sportster under the Street moniker
* Develop a new LC model to replace the Sportster under the Street moniker
* Fill the bottom in with a rebadged imported bike like they are doing overseas in Asia

I dunno.... but I guess time will tell. Weird though.

Kev, as we mentioned before.  New models developed by the old CEO are being shitcanned by the new CEO even before hitting the market.  There's something wrong with the whole enterprise where one guy's vision is nixed by the next guy.   

[Kev m]

Kev, as we mentioned before.  New models developed by the old CEO are being shitcanned by the new CEO even before hitting the market.  There's something wrong with the whole enterprise where one guy's vision is nixed by the next guy.

I know you've mentioned it but I believe you've gotten some of the facts wrong.

The PA (Pan Am) IS one of those new LC models with the modular 60° twin and it is about to enter production, first bikes to dealers in Feb and to customers in March/April.

Of the remaining two new LC concepts they didn't announce they were dead, they set the timeline back on one (it's still listed on the website under Future Models) and said the other was on hold. So I think they're waiting to see how the PA does.

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/products/bikes/future-vehicles.html

As for nixing one management's plan isn't that the reason for new management sometimes? That said the plan was never to replace the whole line of bikes with these new visions, at least in there foreseeable future. All the new management did was dial back the speed of the new projects and try to streamline the business to remain profitable at lower sales levels.

[LowRyter]

Kev, no one thought they were going to replace the legacy Harleys, only trying to broaden the model range.  I didn't make up that they weren't going to cancel some of the new products, that was reported in the press. 

Obviously the new CEO wants to consolidate even after all the R&D that went into the new stuff and even some of the old stuff.  It looks like the new guy wants to maximize profit  per unit vs outreach for new products.  We've seen this before with Vrod, Street series, Buell, MV, etc.

I don't know which is best.  But they've thrown away lots of capital and they can't seem to make up their minds.  I'd say the Pan Am is even further away from core products than the Bronx.  Neither model I've ever seen.  The Street series was just a weak product IMO, although I understand it had possibilities overseas; I'm not sure what happens to the flat track program. 

[stubbie]

Thought I had read a couple of years ago how the market was saturated with Harley's and that Harley Davidson were actually buying back old bikes to try and increase their new bike sales. On a lighter note, a few weeks back some friends and I went on a ride to a country town 200km's away. Whilst we were refueling at a garage about a dozen Harley's rode into the garage and pulled up and parked along the kerb next to the footpath. One of my quick thinking mates said "I Didn't know there was a verge (rubbish) collection on today" we all looked at each other and burst into laughter. Sorry were not Harley fans.

[Kev m]

Kev, no one thought they were going to replace the legacy Harleys, only trying to broaden the model range.  I didn't make up that they weren't going to cancel some of the new products, that was reported in the press. 

Obviously the new CEO wants to consolidate even after all the R&D that went into the new stuff and even some of the old stuff.  It looks like the new guy wants to maximize profit  per unit vs outreach for new products.  We've seen this before with Vrod, Street series, Buell, MV, etc.

I don't know which is best.  But they've thrown away lots of capital and they can't seem to make up their minds.  I'd say the Pan Am is even further away from core products than the Bronx.  Neither model I've ever seen.  The Street series was just a weak product IMO, although I understand it had possibilities overseas; I'm not sure what happens to the flat track program.

I'm not saying you made anything up, but the press sucks sometimes. Lazy or misleading headlines, poor interpretations of press kits. You tell me.

Bottom line the PA is coming out, the Custom is still on the website and the Bronx was put on hold. Thing is they are all part of platforms built of the same modular engine. So what direction they go with them is still open and can evolve IF sales and demand are there.

Oh speaking of bad copy in the press. I think it was just last week some moron at ultimate motorcycling. Com posted about the new 2021 RK Special having Apple carplay. Just carelessly blocking and copying crap from a press kit and not thinking about it.

I knew that was what happened as soon as I read it. He got called out later and changed the article, but admits it in the comments:

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2021/01/20/2021-harley-davidson-road-king-special-first-look-hot-rod-bagger/amp/


Point is I've seen nothing definitive that they are abandoning the whole 60° water cooled motor completely. To the contrary there's evidence they are still moving forward, starting the PA. So let's see what happens.

[Moparnut72]

Indian just announced some new FTR models.  Once again Harley is a day late and a dollar short. The Bronx a d the Street Fighter should have  been out a couple of years ago if not sooner.
kk

[twowheeladdict]

Indian just announced some new FTR models.  Once again Harley is a day late and a dollar short. The Bronx a d the Street Fighter should have  been out a couple of years ago if not sooner.
kk

Have you ridden the FTR?  I was not impressed.  Still 2019s out there for sale so looks like I'm not the only one.

[LowRyter]

I'm not saying you made anything up, but the press sucks sometimes. Lazy or misleading headlines, poor interpretations of press kits. You tell me.

Bottom line the PA is coming out, the Custom is still on the website and the Bronx was put on hold. Thing is they are all part of platforms built of the same modular engine. So what direction they go with them is still open and can evolve IF sales and demand are there.

Oh speaking of bad copy in the press. I think it was just last week some moron at ultimate motorcycling. Com posted about the new 2021 RK Special having Apple carplay. Just carelessly blocking and copying crap from a press kit and not thinking about it.

I knew that was what happened as soon as I read it. He got called out later and changed the article, but admits it in the comments:

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2021/01/20/2021-harley-davidson-road-king-special-first-look-hot-rod-bagger/amp/


Point is I've seen nothing definitive that they are abandoning the whole 60° water cooled motor completely. To the contrary there's evidence they are still moving forward, starting the PA. So let's see what happens.

Actually, what was reported in the press and put here by me was correct.  I don't think I said the entire line up was axed, only a few models.   Perhaps the Bronx. 

Whatever models are coming out, they appear to be a year later than anticipated. 

I suppose we have so many "bash Harley threads", it's hard to keep up.  But I do enjoy them.  I vowed at 13 never to own one, "garbage wagon". 

The original Electra Glide Sport and later RK almost convinced me -until I saw the price tag.  Then, nevermind. 

[twowheeladdict]

Actually, what was reported in the press and put here by me was correct.  I don't think I said the entire line up was axed, only a few models.   Perhaps the Bronx. 

Whatever models are coming out, they appear to be a year later than anticipated. 

I suppose we have so many "bash Harley threads", it's hard to keep up.  But I do enjoy them.  I vowed at 13 never to own one, "garbage wagon". 

The original Electra Glide Sport and later RK almost convinced me -until I saw the price tag.  Then, nevermind.

You find "Bash Harley Threads" enjoyable?       What people find entertaining.   

[LowRyter]

You find "Bash Harley Threads" enjoyable?       What people find entertaining.   

And you're on this thread too.   

[twowheeladdict]

And you're on this thread too.   

I guess I didn't know this was a harley bashing thread.  Especially all the posts talking about how many Harleys are sold every year compared to all the other manufacturers of large displacement motorcycles.  Sounded more like a great job Harley for selling so many motorcycles thread. 

[Scout63]

I’ve never really wanted a Harley, but it is pretty obvious that they know their market, or at least did.  The sheer number of the bikes out there attests to their understanding of how most people really use their bikes.  I am first and foremost a fan of 60s through 80’s European singles and twins, but like dogs, I love all motorcycles and the people who are compelled to ride them.

[LowRyter]

I guess I didn't know this was a harley bashing thread.  Especially all the posts talking about how many Harleys are sold every year compared to all the other manufacturers of large displacement motorcycles.  Sounded more like a great job Harley for selling so many motorcycles thread.

Well now you know.   

[rocker59]

For quite some time Harley actually made the bulk of their profit not from the bikes they made but from the finance they provided to buy them.

No.  And not t-shirts, either.

HD is a motorcycle company which makes the bulk of its money selling motorcycles.

It also makes money from parts, accessories,  apparel,  financing, and licensing its logo/name.

[Kev m]

Actually, what was reported in the press and put here by me was correct.  I don't think I said the entire line up was axed, only a few models.   Perhaps the Bronx. 

Whatever models are coming out, they appear to be a year later than anticipated. 

Maybe we're just misunderstanding each other.

You keep saying axed, and to me that means CANCELLED not delayed.

I keep pointing out that the fate of the Bronx (the only one currently not on the future models section of the US webpage*) is still to be determined.
*Note: Interestingly enough it was still on the Canadian website this morning, though that could just be an oversight.

Yes, some of the press got it right:

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/harley-davidson-bronx-streetfighter-delayed-2022/

Others saw stuff like this and started saying axed:

https://www.motorcycle.com/mini-features/goodbye-harley-davidson-bronx-streetfighter.html

It may be that we'll never see the a Bronx. But we're about to get the PA and still supposed to get the 1200 Custom. If they do well then I think we'll see the Bronx still. But time will tell.

[blu guzz]

no harley hate from me.  i bought my first harley in 1992, a 1200 sportster.  i loved it and was forced to give it up due to money concerns.  i only had it for 5,000 miles but it was perfect mechanically as it should have been with low miles.  after that bike, i made a job change and rode used asian bikes until bmw in 1997 and in 2005, i got a bad jones for another harley.  i got a 2006 wide glide. those models had the new 6 speed and many other driveability improvements but retained the by then, reliable 88 twin cam.  i loved that bike and but about 18,000 miles on it (i know, high for a harley) in 2 years, perfect running.  it was a second bike to go with a bmw rt and i traded the harley and sold the beemer in 2008 for a victory.  i was afraid of the bmw rear drive blowing up yet needed something with more touring capacity than the wide glide. 
at least from the early 90s to the mid 2000s, my experience with harleys was as good as it gets.  i was just a motorcyclist who liked riding harleys, full faced helmet and proper gear as always, not a lifestyler. 

[moltoguzzi]

I’ve ridden the entire north east, my favorite place to ride, and NY and PA, 99% of the bikes I see on the road and rallies are HDs, sometimes you spot a Honda, a bmw, an Austrian but rarely, when I spot a Guzzi I want to chase down and share the love of Guzzi’s then I think that’s too silly. Harley has cut back on models and production so prices will go up shortly and they finally fixed the oil transfer problem by eliminating the hydraulic clutch on the touring bikes, softails already had them. I’m thinking of trading my 2018 Heritage for a 2021 Low Rider S, love the balance of the twin discs, the look and of course the 114ci.