NGC Where do all the Harleys come from?

[Moparnut72]

I test rode a Low Rider in 2019. The handling was dreadful on unsettled pavement. It might have been a one off problem. It was a demo bike with 3,000 miles on it and a few dealer add-ons. I was interested in that model but after riding it, rejected it.
kk

[LowRyter]

Maybe we're just misunderstanding each other.

You keep saying axed, and to me that means CANCELLED not delayed.

I keep pointing out that the fate of the Bronx (the only one currently not on the future models section of the US webpage*) is still to be determined.
*Note: Interestingly enough it was still on the Canadian website this morning, though that could just be an oversight.

Yes, some of the press got it right:

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/harley-davidson-bronx-streetfighter-delayed-2022/

Others saw stuff like this and started saying axed:

https://www.motorcycle.com/mini-features/goodbye-harley-davidson-bronx-streetfighter.html

It may be that we'll never see the a Bronx. But we're about to get the PA and still supposed to get the 1200 Custom. If they do well then I think we'll see the Bronx still. But time will tell.

I don't recall saying all those models were axed.  If so, it's not what I meant. 

I said something regarding that the old CEO developed new models/engines and the new CEO isn't bringing some to market.  I don't think that is a great way to run a company.    I also said that the Street model line was being discontinued (according to my phone), that's the 500/750.  I think I also said the VRod was discontinued earlier.  Maybe I said something about MV or Buell?  Again, not good management moves IMO.

But in reference to the new models, some of them weren't going to be released by the new CEO that were developed by the previous CEO.

I'm not sure this was the effort to say again.   

[LowRyter]

I test rode a Low Rider in 2019. The handling was dreadful on unsettled pavement. It might have been a one off problem. It was a demo bike with 3,000 miles on it and a few dealer add-ons. I was interested in that model but after riding it, rejected it.
kk

I thought the newer softail models were supposed to be dialed in. 

[jguzzi]

I was struck by the comment about sportsters no longer being listed on the website by name and almost gone.  I always thought they were an important legacy model.  I have owned and loved them, especially post 2004 and currently have a 1200T.  I am too small for a RK and the 1200T has bags, windshield, mid controls with small floor boards, etc. and it is about 26 inches in seat height which I like. It fits me.   I know some call the sportster just an entry level bike or worse but I really like them along with Guzzis, airheads, etc.  At my local dealers it does appear they are fewer in number and prices are up.

[LowRyter]

I was struck by the comment about sportsters no longer being listed on the website by name and almost gone.  I always thought they were an important legacy model.  I have owned and loved them, especially post 2004 and currently have a 1200T.  I am too small for a RK and the 1200T has bags, windshield, mid controls with small floor boards, etc. and it is about 26 inches in seat height which I like. It fits me.   I know some call the sportster just an entry level bike or worse but I really like them along with Guzzis, airheads, etc.  At my local dealers it does appear they are fewer in number and prices are up.

who said that?

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/sportster.html

[Moparnut72]

I thought the newer softail models were supposed to be dialed in.

It was a newer model with the M8. I will not say it was completely stock. It did have the compliant Screaming Eagle exhaust. I wasn't going to trade my Slim S for it.
kk

[jguzzi]

Good to see the sportster is still right there...thanks....s ome things should not change

[Kev m]

who said that?

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/sportster.html

That's so weird.

When I go in to the website I can't get to that place with the links. If I select BIKES it lists: Street, Electric, Cruiser, Touring, Trike and the "Sportster" models are listed under Street.

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/index.html?source_cd=SEM_Retention_PPC&_cr=ppc|GOOGLE|Sitelink|2021-Motorcycles|harley%20davidson&gclid=Cj0KCQiA3smABhCjARIsAKtrg6JEnWFUwSR4yia_2PgIv-6_uE5HkZhdlFY99V5uzToam1piJEMhV1AaAkT3EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Weird.

[Gappy]

Most of the Harleys I see for sale are twinkies ( twin cams), and sportsters of all engine types. That being said the TC’s are not the most desirable mill,many expensive problems. Do remember that the Harley dealers are not required to support any of their machines after 10 years. They first started showing up 2010. And I see most of the used Harleys on market are TC’s and early Milwaukee engines they had their problems too. How ever the Milwaukee mill might prove to be the best engine yet even beating out the EVO witch is more than capable of doing over 100k with regular maintenance. You don’t see many evo’s for sale and when you do they get bought right away. You can do your own work on them, the TC’s and later not so much so. That is why I own a Shovelhead , one of my most favorite bikes in my collection to ride.

If I owned a bike that I could not work on and the dealer and the motor company did not support and stoped making parts I would try to sell it too.

[Kev m]

. Do remember that the Harley dealers are not required to support any of their machines after 10 years. They first started showing up 2010.

Uh the TC was introduced in 99 and phased through the BT platforms in the next couple of years.

The biggest potential issue on a TC are the spring loaded tensioners on the 88" models can fail catastrophically sometime between 25-50k miles if not inspected and replaced.

If replaced or if upgraded to the hydraulic tensioners which were introduced in 06 on the Dyna and all 07+ TC96 or 103's they still need to be checked and replaced, but the interval is closer to 100k+.

Yes there are dealers who won't work on Shovelheads or EVO's anymore, but even the youngest BT EVO is now over 20 years old. I've not heard of a TC being turned away but it will happen eventually.

That said they still make many more parts for legacy bikes then most manufacturers, but who cares the aftermarket has it all covered anyway.

Or one could always drop in an S&S.

[twowheeladdict]

Most of the Harleys I see for sale are twinkies ( twin cams), and sportsters of all engine sizes. That being said the TC’s are not the most desirable mill,many expensive problems. Do remember that the Harley dealers are not required to support any of their machines after 10 years. They first started showing up 2010. And I see most of the used Harleys on market are TC’s and early Milwaukee engines they had their problems too. How ever the Milwaukee mill might prove to be the best engine yet even beating out the EVO witch is more than capable of doing over 100k with regular maintenance. You don’t see many evo’s for sale and when you do they get bought right away. You can do your own work on them, the TC’s and later not so much so. That is why I own a Shovelhead , one of my most favorite bikes in my collection to ride.

If I owned a bike that I could not work on and the dealer and the motor company did not support and stoped making parts I would try to sell it too.

What started showing up in 2010?

There isn't a dealer out there who is required to work on any bike beyond a certain period.  I've also heard the 10 year number bantered around at all brands of dealers.  That doesn't mean they won't.  When it comes to independent mechanics you will probably find more Indies that support Harley than any other brand since there were so many made and parts are plentiful.

[MMRanch]

I've had a couple of Harleys , and wonder if other folks are getting rid of theirs for the same reason I got rid of mine ?

There are a lot of guys in my local CMAUSA group who are making trikes out of their Harleys as they get older (riders not the Harleys, ), others just quit ridding.

I've found the 400-450 pound machines are just more FUN !     And can still do anything even remotely legal just as good or better than any of the Heavy-Weights !   

[Gappy]

My mistake It should have read 2000 last year of evo was 98

[Gappy]

Had to look it up I was just going by memory, evo’s ended in 99 TC’s started in 99 hmm, sorry

[rocker59]

who said that?

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/sportster.html

Iron 883, Iron 1200, Forty-Eight.

What a sad state the Sportster lineup is in.

I never would have thought HD would allow it to languish and die, but wow!  Just wow!

[Kev m]

Iron 883, Iron 1200, Forty-Eight.

What a sad state the Sportster lineup is in.

I never would have thought HD would allow it to languish and die, but wow!  Just wow!

It's not and won't be made compliant for EU-V - as a result it's already been dropped overseas.

I still don't know how Low got to a page on the current website that actually SAYS Sportster, unless I go direct to that page everything I come up with lists Street - and then the Irons and 48.

Oh I meant to say that though they killed the "Street" models in the US, they ARE going to still produce them. Not sure volume or markets. They are still going to provide the Street 500 for the Harley run US rider courses. I THINK they may still produce some variants of them overseas but time will tell if they kill those and replace that with the Chinese 300cc bike they have a deal to rebadge in Asia.

Shrugs, it's an interesting time.

I really am torn on the Sporty thing and I've been eyeing up what is basically a "leftover" CX in WHITE at a "local" Guzzi dealer.

Had to look it up I was just going by memory, evo’s ended in 99 TC’s started in 99 hmm, sorry

My mistake It should have read 2000 last year of evo was 98

If we're being pedantic, I BELIEVE it was:

98 last rubbermounted BT EVOs - Dyna and FLH
99 first rubbermounted TC 88s - Dyna and FLH &
99 last solidmounted EVO - Softail
00 first TC88B - counterbalanced solidmounted TC - Softail

Then they did that weird crap in 2006 where the Dyna models were still TC88s, but they were the only ones to ever come with all the upgrades of the TC96 and later models (including the most important, the new oil pump and hydraulic chain tensioners).

I get lost after that with the TC96, 103, was there a 110 in the SE models?, the M8 107, M8114, the M8130.... whatever.

I really never thought I'd own a TC because of the "fatal flaw" - then suddenly bought a leftover the year the M8s came out.

<shrugs>

I had really been thinking of picking up an EVO and rebuilding it - but then I wouldn't have had some of the great FLH improvements that occurred in 2014, the brembos being a big part of it.

[Motormike]

When it comes to independent mechanics you will probably find more Indies that support Harley than any other brand since there were so many made and parts are plentiful.

This!  It’s far easier to keep an old out-of-production Harley on the road than it is any Japanese or euro bike. Aftermarket parts and service are readily available anywhere in the country.

[oldbike54]

This!  It’s far easier to keep an old out-of-production Harley on the road than it is any Japanese or euro bike. Aftermarket parts and service are readily available anywhere in the country.

 Airheads are really easy to keep going , and if you know where to source parts so are older Guzzis . Heck , parts are everywhere for Meriden built Triumphs , not sure if this is still true , but a few years ago a brand new Triumph 650 could be built using all new components .

 Dusty

[Motormike]

True for the home wrench, but try and find a mechanic for an old Triumph or Moto Guzzi. The wife and I are renting a condo in Ormond Beach and there’s an independent Harley repair shop down the street within walking distance.

[LowRyter]

This!  It’s far easier to keep an old out-of-production Harley on the road than it is any Japanese or euro bike. Aftermarket parts and service are readily available anywhere in the country.

Yes, except you might have to go to an independent shop, since I've been told that some of the dealers won't service or part legacy bikes as recent as Evos.  Certainly the parts from aftermarket and independent shops can service them. 

[oldbike54]

True for the home wrench, but try and find a mechanic for an old Triumph or Moto Guzzi. The wife and I are renting a condo in Ormond Beach and there’s an independent Harley repair shop down the street within walking distance.

 Probably because old HD's need constant repair 

 Seriously , there is an independent shop here that is capable of working on anything , only there is not one scintilla of evidence as to what happens in that shop . No signs , no internet presence , nothing . The owner never even speaks about the shop , you are required to know the secret handshake 

 Dusty

[Kev m]

Yes, except you might have to go to an independent shop, since I've been told that some of the dealers won't service or part legacy bikes as recent as Evos.  Certainly the parts from aftermarket and independent shops can service them.

Yeah, but again that's more than 2 decades old.

How many JAPanInc. shops would repair a 20+ year old bike of their marque now?

I actually would be surprised if half the Guzzi dealers around would touch anything even as early as a Tonti Cali anymore. Of course there are exceptions, just as there are plenty of Harley shops that still will work on EVOs, and some some Shovels (assuming they have THAT guy still working there).

I dunno - Harleys and air BMWs seem to be the two bikes you could build from scratch using aftermarket and/or NOS OEM parts.

[LowRyter]

Yeah, but again that's more than 2 decades old.

How many JAPanInc. shops would repair a 20+ year old bike of their marque now?

I actually would be surprised if half the Guzzi dealers around would touch anything even as early as a Tonti Cali anymore. Of course there are exceptions, just as there are plenty of Harley shops that still will work on EVOs, and some some Shovels (assuming they have THAT guy still working there).

I dunno - Harleys and air BMWs seem to be the two bikes you could build from scratch using aftermarket and/or NOS OEM parts.

Sorry, I don't buy it. 

Harley produced those EVOs exclusively for 15 years.  It's not like they had 10 different engines in a given mode year like Honda, and I am not justifying Honda's actions either!  Harley is always proud of their "heritage": flat head, knucklehead, pan head, shovel head, evo, twin cam, whatever now.  Perhaps they wouldn't have the cosmetic stuff but they should be able to mechanically work on any EVO, they built a million of the damned things.  I can still get my Isuzu Trooper fixed for heaven's sake! (not that ever needs anything)

[Kev m]

Sorry, I don't buy it. 

Harley produced those EVOs exclusively for 15 years.  It's not like they had 10 different engines in a given mode year like Honda, and I am not justifying Honda's actions either!  Harley is always proud of their "heritage": flat head, knucklehead, pan head, shovel head, evo, twin cam, whatever now.  Perhaps they wouldn't have the cosmetic stuff but they should be able to mechanically work on any EVO, they built a million of the damned things.  I can still get my Isuzu Trooper fixed for heaven's sake! (not that ever needs anything)

Most of them still will work on them though. And the ones that won't are simply prioritizing the current (past 2+ decades) of business.

[Ncdan]

I no longer have a Harley so no dog in the fight but I can attest to this. HD is and has been so popular over the past 100+ years and have so many followers that these are old wrenches EVERYWHERE. all those little sheds behind houses of these old wrenches are full of parts. There are 3 such shops within 30 minutes of my house. If someone’s HD breaks down you can find parts and a wrench.

[oldbike54]

I no longer have a Harley so no dog in the fight but I can attest to this. HD is and has been so popular over the past 100+ years and have so many followers that these are old wrenches EVERYWHERE. all those little sheds behind houses of these old wrenches are full of parts. There are 3 such shops within 30 minutes of my house. If someone’s HD breaks down you can find parts and a wrench.

 Yes , but if you want to do an ATW trip , an R 80 GS is a much better choice , there are parts and mechanics for those old nails in places like Rwanda , try getting a Harley serviced in Kigali .

 Dusty

[Kiwi Dave]

Have you ridden the FTR?  I was not impressed.  Still 2019s out there for sale so looks like I'm not the only one.

I bought one in Kiwi Land straight after we came out of - lockdown.  They were offered for NZ$19,999 which is 15% off the original price.  I took it for a demo ride, and signed up immediately upon return.

The original fuel mapping was not the best, I put a Fuel Moto map in mine, improved it considerably.  Got rid of the low license plate and rear indicator bracket, it would attach my shins every time I walked past.  Perhaps it was just saying "let's ride"?

I liked it so much, I bought an Indian Chief.  Different motor all together, nice lazy riding.

The new ones have 17" and 18" (rear-front) wheels, mine came with 19" front and rear.  Makes it rather tall, but probably no more than my Moto Guzzi V85TT.

[Ncdan]

Yes , but if you want to do an ATW trip , an R 80 GS is a much better choice , there are parts and mechanics for those old nails in places like Rwanda , try getting a Harley serviced in Kigali .

 Dusty

Good point my friend but if by some remote chance, as I  don’t fly, I ever do get off this continent I would rent the most popular bike of the area I visited. However in the good ole US of A it’s the ole HD:)

[LowRyter]

I no longer have a Harley so no dog in the fight but I can attest to this. HD is and has been so popular over the past 100+ years and have so many followers that these are old wrenches EVERYWHERE. all those little sheds behind houses of these old wrenches are full of parts. There are 3 such shops within 30 minutes of my house. If someone’s HD breaks down you can find parts and a wrench.

I made that point to begin with.  You may recall, I mentioned independent shops and aftermarket parts in my original post.

But my other point was that Harley dealers might not service legacy models even for an Evo, even for parts support.  That's when Kev chimed in.  And Dusty knows the secret handshake wrench in Muskogee.   So there we are.

No disagreement, only clarification. 

[Canuck750]

Yes , but if you want to do an ATW trip , an R 80 GS is a much better choice , there are parts and mechanics for those old nails in places like Rwanda , try getting a Harley serviced in Kigali .

 Dusty

Back in the summer of 2019 touring Europe from
Amsterdam to Istanbul I saw all of TWO Harleys, one newer big tourer and one old beater ridden by a fellow Canadian in Bulgaria. BMW twins (both GS and RT) are by and far the most popular on the road followed by KTM big twin dual sports, scooters in most cities. Saw a couple Goldwings in France and a couple dual purpose Japanese bikes here and there. Cops on sporty FJR 1300’s in Italy and France, Beemers most every where else.