V85 map update

[NWrider]

Huzo asked about a possible update to the V85 ECU.   I reached out to Manic Moto in Queen Creek again, but haven't received a call back yet.   In the meantime, this post appeared in AdvRider.  https://advrider.com/f/threads/moto-guzzi-v85-tt.1265870/page-497#post-41560995
It indicates that the latest update has a code ending in 105.

[Huzo]

I am interested in a map update for my V85 to richen the mixture in places.
However I am hyper wary of throwing money at something that is just going to pour fuel over the entire map. I have been in that position in the early days with my Norge and it wasn’t until Beetle intervened, that the issue was resolved.

[jrt]

I am interested in a map update for my V85 to richen the mixture in places.
However I am hyper wary of throwing money at something that is just going to pour fuel over the entire map. I have been in that position in the early days with my Norge and it wasn’t until Beetle intervened, that the issue was resolved.

Then the question is whether Beetle intends to make and distribute a map for the V85.  I would also like a better fueling map for my V85, but I would rather not brick my ECU, and I suspect that factory maps are only going to be an incremental improvement.  It runs pretty well as is, so I shouldn't complain. much.

[j.davis]

Huzo, contact this bloke in Brisbane, he has the map you want.
Contact us: 0423322175 | info@torquepowermotorcycles.com.au

[Huzo]

Huzo, contact this bloke in Brisbane, he has the map you want.
Contact us: 0423322175 | info@torquepowermotorcycles.com.au

I will do that, thanks.

[Kiwi Dave]

Huzo, contact this bloke in Brisbane, he has the map you want.
Contact us: 0423322175 | info@torquepowermotorcycles.com.au

Rexxer has not received a good reputation on earlier Guzzi models.  Can't see how it will be able to handle the remapping of the V85's ECU with the more sophisticated Magneti Marelli IAW 7SM ECU.

But I'm willing to be surprised.

[Huzo]

My bike is booked in for a dyno pull early in this new year.
The bike is perfect almost everywhere except for a minor hesitancy at 3,000 rpm on light throttle settings. If the map can be adjusted at this point, I think a slight richening over the performance spectrum will be the go.
I know that it is too lean, by the economy figure it returns, but I don’t want the whole thing doused in fuel like my pre- Beetle Norge was.

[j.davis]

Rexxer has not received a good reputation on earlier Guzzi models.  Can't see how it will be able to handle the remapping of the V85's ECU with the more sophisticated Magneti Marelli IAW 7SM ECU.

But I'm willing to be surprised.

The bloke that does the map actually broke into the ECU himself, not Rexxer, gets good reviews on his FB page.
I was going to have it done, but I don't know if the Guzzi service would replace the map, will wait for the bike to be out of warranty.

[Huzo]

The bloke that does the map actually broke into the ECU himself, not Rexxer, gets good reviews on his FB page.
I was going to have it done, but I don't know if the Guzzi service would replace the map, will wait for the bike to be out of warranty.

Give us a call please mate.
0437070946

[j.davis]

Give us a call please mate.
0437070946

Answering machine Msg, left my #.

[Huzo]

I recently had a productive discussion with JDavis from here on WG.
He sent me some literature pertaining to the mapping on the V85 and I see that it is claimed that Guzzidiag can tell you what version map you are running. It seems the latest iteration ends in 105.
Can anyone tell me if they have been able to use Guzzidiag to extract this information ?

[Bisbonian]

I recently had a productive discussion with JDavis from here on WG.
He sent me some literature pertaining to the mapping on the V85 and I see that it is claimed that Guzzidiag can tell you what version map you are running. It seems the latest iteration ends in 105.
Can anyone tell me if they have been able to use Guzzidiag to extract this information ?

Unless someone gets on this before me, I'll see if I can pull this up on my V85 sometime today.

[Huzo]

Unless someone gets on this before me, I'll see if I can pull this up on my V85 sometime today.

Thank you.

[Bisbonian]

I busted out my old laptop and downloaded all the software. I already had the Lonelec cables.

The reader takes a long time to download the map. I don't see where it tells me the version that's in there, when I download the map I get to choose the name. If anyone has a clue then I'm happy to look.

I hooked up Guzzidiag and don't think it provides the map name either. There is the information box in the lower left of the screen but I'm unsure what it all means. I see the ECU type and then a bunch of other stuff. Again, if someone has a clue then maybe we'll know.

Guaranteed mine is still using the standard map from when I bought it, no mapping updates have been performed in the last year.

[Kiwi Dave]

I updated my map nearly a year ago to 7621GA14.

There is a newer one, 7621GA15 for Eu & World, 7621GC15 for USA.  I chose not to update up, got frightened off by comments by Beetle (I thenk, sorry mate if it wasn't you) about bricking the ECU.  My bike is running fine, I doubt I would notice any difference.

[pauldaytona]

The maps ending on 15 are the latest.

Piaggio wrote with the release of this map:

We also wish to inform you that the new software will improve the management of the engine advance to avoid distribution noise during accelerations from low rpm.

 No problems are there with bricking an ecu with Guzzidiag writer. Just do the normal things to make it safe: Battery full, laptop does not goto sleep or lose power. Download stock map first to see if you are communicating good. And if you are forking out money: ask what the map does, most aren't interested in top power but drivebilty = smooth running up from bottom to top with enough torgue low down. Gains that are made with different exhaust don't count, you can have that with stock map too, Maybe:-)

[Bisbonian]

I updated my map nearly a year ago to 7621GA14.

There is a newer one, 7621GA15 for Eu & World, 7621GC15 for USA.  I chose not to update up, got frightened off by comments by Beetle (I thenk, sorry mate if it wasn't you) about bricking the ECU.  My bike is running fine, I doubt I would notice any difference.

Ah, so if I can go by what you're saying then Guzzidiag does show you the map version:



I intend to let the dealer put the updated map in for me. If it helps with off-idle when cold it will be a big plus for me while riding in the winter.

[Paultergeist]

Greetings,

Much of this is above my level of understanding, but I feel like I should engage in this discussion and try to learn more.

I just purchased my 2020 V85TT within the last couple of weeks.  I really have no idea if my bike's map has been updated to the latest version. 

I guess my first question is:  Is there an easy way for an owner to determine their map version?

My second question:  If is often cited -- and generally accepted -- that stock fueling is set lean, but is there a way to verify/confirm that?   Are the stock mixtures really as dangerously lean as some have stated?

Last question:  I certainly don't want my bike to run lean -- I want it to run properly -- and there seems to be at least some indication in this thread that the newest map may slightly enrich the mixture, but do we know for certain that the newest map is indeed an improvement in this respect?  (i.e., How do we know that the newest map isn't just as lean as the previous?)

I am just trying to learn.....thanks in advance for any good information.

[usedtobefast]

I guess my first question is:  Is there an easy way for an owner to determine their map version?

My second question:  If is often cited -- and generally accepted -- that stock fueling is set lean, but is there a way to verify/confirm that?   Are the stock mixtures really as dangerously lean as some have stated?

Last question:  I certainly don't want my bike to run lean -- I want it to run properly -- and there seems to be at least some indication in this thread that the newest map may slightly enrich the mixture, but do we know for certain that the newest map is indeed an improvement in this respect?  (i.e., How do we know that the newest map isn't just as lean as the previous?)

I am just trying to learn.....thanks in advance for any good information.

You got yours from GP Motorcycles?  Have you already done your first service?  Were you going to do that yourself?  Basically, I'm thinking just have them check is the easiest thing.  If you want to do it yourself, you'll need to buy a couple of cables and download some software, details here:  https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=96957.0    Personally I think the software runs best from a Windows laptop but Mac guys have it working too.

So emission regulations need to be met in order to be able to sell them ... than means at some points they are leaner than an optimum air fuel ratio for power or "best running" ... but that does not mean your stock bike is going to be damaged riding it as is.   If you really wanted to go nuts, you could buy an air fuel monitor and log data and check it.  They also sell cheaper ones that have a display so you can just see the current air/fuel ratio.  Just FYI, only tuner guys typically do this.  Some guys go to a dyno but I don't get that, they just lock the throttle wide open and run it up to redline and hand you a chart which isn't the way I ride any of my motorcycles.

Since the new map is also an emission approved fueling map, I would expect it to run just as lean as the original.  But I'm just guessing/speculating and don't really know. 

I have only done 2 demo rides on a V85TT and I thought they ran great.  Not a bike I would start sorting out a way to remap.  If you removed the CAT and changed the exhaust, then I would look at some sort of fueling option at that point. 

[Huzo]

This is what my bike has..






Where does that leave me ?

[Huzo]

Oh, and this.

[Paultergeist]

You got yours from GP Motorcycles?  Have you already done your first service?  Were you going to do that yourself?  Basically, I'm thinking just have them check is the easiest thing. 

Yes, bought from GP.  Makes sense -- I'll just ask them.  I was going to have them do the very first service or two....I am still learning a lot.  I DO hope to do most of my own maintenance as time goes on.

Some guys go to a dyno but I don't get that, they just lock the throttle wide open and run it up to redline and hand you a chart which isn't the way I ride any of my motorcycles.

I have wondered the same thing.

If you removed the CAT and changed the exhaust, then I would look at some sort of fueling option at that point.

You bring up a point I have been considering.  It seems like that cat really gets hot....probably gets the engine hot....eliminating the cat is something I very well may wish to consider, so I guess that is another reason to try to understand this better.

[Huzo]

I would expect that a proper dyno session is a good thing because it more accurately represents what is happening with regard to throttle position, rpm and all the other variables that are at play when in normal use.
In my case, I am acutely interested at where my fuelling is at 3,000 rpm and low throttle position, nothing to do with it screaming it’s wog guts out on the limiter.

[elvisboy77]

Mine runs so well stock I have no reason to change it.

[Bisbonian]

Where does that leave me ?

I'm making the assumption that the 7621GA14 is your map version, mine says 7621GC14 so perhaps that's just a bit different between the US and Australia. I just read Kiwi Dave's post again and this seems to be the case.
So, like me you have the older version of the map and there should be an updated version out there for you.

[Bisbonian]

Greetings,

Much of this is above my level of understanding, but I feel like I should engage in this discussion and try to learn more.

I just purchased my 2020 V85TT within the last couple of weeks.  I really have no idea if my bike's map has been updated to the latest version. 

I guess my first question is:  Is there an easy way for an owner to determine their map version?

My second question:  If is often cited -- and generally accepted -- that stock fueling is set lean, but is there a way to verify/confirm that?   Are the stock mixtures really as dangerously lean as some have stated?

Last question:  I certainly don't want my bike to run lean -- I want it to run properly -- and there seems to be at least some indication in this thread that the newest map may slightly enrich the mixture, but do we know for certain that the newest map is indeed an improvement in this respect?  (i.e., How do we know that the newest map isn't just as lean as the previous?)

I am just trying to learn.....thanks in advance for any good information.

As someone else mentioned, peruse the Guzzidiag thread and purchase the Lonelec cables. Follow the instructions regarding downloading the correct drivers from that thread. I already had the cables but hadn't used them yet on this bike, so I had to download all the stuff on my old laptop yesterday before getting in there to see what was up.

I read the map first because I thought it would tell me something. It didn't. It looks like the map version just shows up on the normal Guzzidiag page as you can see in the above comments.

I installed the replacement y-pipe because people said it helped with the heat. I'm not sure that I agree, depending upon my riding conditions. The elimination of the converter does open up the exhaust some and make for a bit more noise, I will not claim any performance enhancement.

My main problem with the mapping is, when cold, I have a dead spot right off idle that makes good throttle manipulation difficult for a few minutes. I use my bike for motorcycle classes and ride it to demonstrate the exercise before everyone else rides. It gets just enough time to cool down and make the dead spot come back for each demo, this does not help me be smooth with what I'm doing. Once the bike warms up this is not an issue.

Other than this one small thing I think the bike runs just fine. The next time I have it in to get the little wrench turned off then I'll ask them to put in the updated map at the dealership. Beetle had mentioned previously that he was not going to work on a V85 map for a while because people had bricked their ECU on the new models messing around with it. He mentions in the Guzzidiag page about not using certain operating systems with the writer or this may occur. Could I write the newer map and have it work? Most likely, but if the dealership breaks my bike then they can pay to fix it.

[usedtobefast]

Yes, bought from GP.  Makes sense -- I'll just ask them.  I was going to have them do the very first service or two....I am still learning a lot.  I DO hope to do most of my own maintenance as time goes on.I have wondered the same thing.You bring up a point I have been considering.  It seems like that cat really gets hot....probably gets the engine hot....eliminating the cat is something I very well may wish to consider, so I guess that is another reason to try to understand this better.

For the exhaust, Mistral is an exhaust company in same town as Moto Guzzi in Italy, been making Guzzi exhaust systems for some time (1993?) ... they have a few different exhaust options and the cross over pipe that eliminates the CAT and a "V-Twin Boost" plug.  I know there are guys on here that hate the "booster plug" products, but I would trust a complete package from Mistral. 

GP might not be able to sell them due to California emissions stuff.  I buy a number of things from AF1 in Austin, TX ... https://www.af1racing.com/V85-Performance-Parts  ... they have all the Mistral stuff.  Oh, funny, AF1 calls the booster plug a "Fuel Injection Trim Module". 

[Moto Vita]

As someone else mentioned, peruse the Guzzidiag thread and purchase the Lonelec cables. Follow the instructions regarding downloading the correct drivers from that thread. I already had the cables but hadn't used them yet on this bike, so I had to download all the stuff on my old laptop yesterday before getting in there to see what was up.

I read the map first because I thought it would tell me something. It didn't. It looks like the map version just shows up on the normal Guzzidiag page as you can see in the above comments.

I installed the replacement y-pipe because people said it helped with the heat. I'm not sure that I agree, depending upon my riding conditions. The elimination of the converter does open up the exhaust some and make for a bit more noise, I will not claim any performance enhancement.

My main problem with the mapping is, when cold, I have a dead spot right off idle that makes good throttle manipulation difficult for a few minutes. I use my bike for motorcycle classes and ride it to demonstrate the exercise before everyone else rides. It gets just enough time to cool down and make the dead spot come back for each demo, this does not help me be smooth with what I'm doing. Once the bike warms up this is not an issue.

Other than this one small thing I think the bike runs just fine. The next time I have it in to get the little wrench turned off then I'll ask them to put in the updated map at the dealership. Beetle had mentioned previously that he was not going to work on a V85 map for a while because people had bricked their ECU on the new models messing around with it. He mentions in the Guzzidiag page about not using certain operating systems with the writer or this may occur. Could I write the newer map and have it work? Most likely, but if the dealership breaks my bike then they can pay to fix it.

 On my V85 the software improved, but did not eliminate, the complaint you have. I still notice it  even when the engine is warm, but that's me.

[Paultergeist]

...I installed the replacement y-pipe because people said it helped with the heat. I'm not sure that I agree, depending upon my riding conditions. The elimination of the converter does open up the exhaust some and make for a bit more noise, I will not claim any performance enhancement.

Thank you very much for sharing that information.  I am also interested in the "Y-pipe" cat delete.  My main reason for considering this is simply to divert heat away from the engine.  I live in SoCal and I ride a lot of desert roads; I also occasionally encounter stop-and-go traffic, so heat is a concern.  I simply want to do right by the engine.  I have read a least one claim stating that the removal of the cat allowed the engine to run cooler, but I don't know if this is actually being measured/validated vs. just assumed.  I appreciate you sharing an opposing opinion.....I guess I need to do more research regarding this matter.
Thank you again for your comments.

[Paultergeist]

For the exhaust, Mistral is an exhaust company in same town as Moto Guzzi in Italy, been making Guzzi exhaust systems for some time (1993?) ... they have a few different exhaust options and the cross over pipe that eliminates the CAT and a "V-Twin Boost" plug.  I know there are guys on here that hate the "booster plug" products, but I would trust a complete package from Mistral. 

GP might not be able to sell them due to California emissions stuff.  I buy a number of things from AF1 in Austin, TX ... https://www.af1racing.com/V85-Performance-Parts  ... they have all the Mistral stuff.  Oh, funny, AF1 calls the booster plug a "Fuel Injection Trim Module".

Thanks very much.  I appreciate the link.  I'll check it out.