2021 Lemans

[oldbike54]

You said  "We" 

 Did you know me in 1980 ? Or 1973 ?

 Dusty

[Huzo]

Did you know me in 1980 ? Or 1973 ?

 Dusty

Dusty, I think Kev’s point is that if you haven’t bought a new bike for at least 40 years can you rightly assume to have a say where the marque should go ?
Answer is still “yes” though.
I don’t agree with his assertion, but I think that was his point.
Also Kev, you should take on board that when Dusty says “we”, he is describing the broader Guzzi populous. You are a bit of a rough and tumble sort of character and I think your comment was mildly in jest given the emoji you attached..
Yes ?

[Joliet Jim]

Well mine is 20 years old this September and the last bike I bought new. Added the Centauro a few years later. Although I've liked several new Guzzis over the years, the Norge never replaced the V11 Lemans in my heart, the Griso didn't make me grin like the Centauro, the Stelvio was so damn big, the breva not on your life, but the 1200 Breva Sport was a contender but gone too soon and not as good looking as the V11 Lemans. So I have my 20 year old bike and my 22 year old bike that both run great and my 46 year old Triumph that someday may run again.

For me the V7 is just too small but I haven't sat on one since the original run. I'd love a Lemans, but it would be a 17 year old one.

[steven c]

 It's a small block so it should be named Monza not LeMans.


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[Joliet Jim]

It's a small block so it should be named Monza not LeMans.


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[oldbike54]

Dusty, I think Kev’s point is that if you haven’t bought a new bike for at least 40 years can you rightly assume to have a say where the marque should go ?
Answer is still “yes” though.
I don’t agree with his assertion, but I think that was his point.
Also Kev, you should take on board that when Dusty says “we”, he is describing the broader Guzzi populous. You are a bit of a rough and tumble sort of character and I think your comment was mildly in jest given the emoji you attached..
Yes ?

 Here's the thing , Guzzi will probably never build a truly high performance motorbike again , that market is minuscule . Why would a company that builds 7K units a year even try to compete in that market . The market is now mostly retro or adventure style motorbikes , Guzzi has those two genres covered , right . Now , they could create something using the modern SB platform , use the full output V85 motor in a more standard platform , employ modern upside down forks , rising rate rear suspension , dual 4 piston brakes up front , a sporting seating position , and maybe get away with calling it a Lemans . However , if they just build a poser the internet will rip it to shreds .

 Dusty

[Dirk_S]

Such is the dilemma with a niche bike manufacturer that has recently taken on the moniker of “sorry, retro-style bikes only.” At one point the manufacturer was going its own, innovative path with machines that, while quirky, kept up with other manufacturers. Now, it appears its focus is a constant reminder of the past. As much as I prefer classic retro styling myself, I’m attempting to see through the fog of my own bias, and in doing so can only think of the word “stale.” Not so much with any individual model, but I feel the company at large may soon realize that, as Royal Enfield even appears on a path to eventually begin innovating (at least within their own brand), and seeing Triumph continuing to grow by putting out new/ updated, highly reviewed models (ignoring the build quality / reliability issues), at what point might MG / Piaggio look at its own brand and lineup and say to itself “maybe it’s time to get serious about being modern.”

I’d be significantly disappointed in MG if they called a V7 850 Racer a Le Mans. They should make it its own thing. MG needs to prove to folks who read moto website reviews and watch YouTube vids that they’re not 20 years behind.

[Kev m]

Did you know me in 1980 ? Or 1973 ?

 Dusty

Completely irrelevant to what the company should do today.

It's kinda like "if you don't vote (economically in this case), don't bitch".

But yes it's largely in jest Huzo, though I'm not sure I even accept the royal we in this case.

[Kev m]

Here's the thing , Guzzi will probably never build a truly high performance motorbike again , that market is minuscule . Why would a company that builds 7K units a year even try to compete in that market . The market is now mostly retro or adventure style motorbikes , Guzzi has those two genres covered , right . Now , they could create something using the modern SB platform , use the full output V85 motor in a more standard platform , employ modern upside down forks , rising rate rear suspension , dual 4 piston brakes up front , a sporting seating position , and maybe get away with calling it a Lemans . However , if they just build a poser the internet will rip it to shreds .

 Dusty

Ha ha, THIS was most of what I was saying. Except that I don't think Guzzi should care about what the internet says is it sells.

[LowRyter]

Guzzi hasn't built a bike that I've wanted in 10 years.  The 1400T nearly got me over but I didn't like the cruiser riding position and was dubious about the reliability.  I'd still like to get a touring bike like an RT but haven't wanted to spend for one for various reasons (they won't trade by old bike and Beemer cost of ownership).   

I was interested in a sporty machine and Griso wasn't enough of difference from my V11 Sport.  So I purchased a Ducati 939 Supersport.  Even though comparing a "dream" LeMans to the Duc would be apple to oranges, I would still have an interest based on my fondness for Guzzis.   So rather than apples to oranges, it was apples to nothing. 

I think the small blocks are nice bikes.  I'm just not interested to own one.  The V85 engine doesn't have performance or lineage to be a LeMans.  I hope the make a sporty V85, just call it another name like Monza or Lario.

[elrealistico]

IMHO, the next LeMans, or formerly 'big block'  model name will be an Electric motorcycle. Don't make sense for MG to pour lire into a new large ICE to make it EU/US compliant.

[Kev m]

It's a small block so it should be named Monza not LeMans.


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I GOT IT!

The 2021 Moto Guzzi LeMonza !!! 

[LowRyter]

Cut down on the drinkin' Kev, jus' sayin'   

[Bpreynolds2]

I GOT IT!

The 2021 Moto Guzzi LeMonza !!! 

 
Or wait, The Lemonzario!

[Huzo]

Here's the thing , Guzzi will probably never build a truly high performance motorbike again , that market is minuscule . Why would a company that builds 7K units a year even try to compete in that market . The market is now mostly retro or adventure style motorbikes , Guzzi has those two genres covered , right . Now , they could create something using the modern SB platform , use the full output V85 motor in a more standard platform , employ modern upside down forks , rising rate rear suspension , dual 4 piston brakes up front , a sporting seating position , and maybe get away with calling it a Lemans . However , if they just build a poser the internet will rip it to shreds .

 Dusty

The internet would rip it a new one as you say, but that does not address the issue of how the Le Mans for instance would or would not, manage to “compete”.
What is it competing for ?
You could bet your last dollar, that if Joe Average rolled up to Cedar Vale on a brand new 2021 Le Mans, it would generate a hell of a lot of interest and one of the first questions would be, “How many are we going to get over here..”
You’ll of course remember the old tale of the underpowered, never to be seen, “concept bike” called the V85 TT.
It was widely agreed that it would sell in the tens and we’d all better “prepare to be underwhelmed..”
If we all mingle in a group who own uncompetitive bikes, then our bike will become competitive within that group we’ll be equal to our peers and you’ll be bound to admit Guzzi riders are a bit insular.
There are bikes being built these days by major manufacturers that could not be described as competitive, yet it does not seem to matter as much these days as in the (recent) past..
If the new Le Mans hits the floors, V85’s will be a dime a dozen.

[twowheeladdict]

Such is the dilemma with a niche bike manufacturer that has recently taken on the moniker of “sorry, retro-style bikes only.” At one point the manufacturer was going its own, innovative path with machines that, while quirky, kept up with other manufacturers. Now, it appears its focus is a constant reminder of the past. As much as I prefer classic retro styling myself, I’m attempting to see through the fog of my own bias, and in doing so can only think of the word “stale.” Not so much with any individual model, but I feel the company at large may soon realize that, as Royal Enfield even appears on a path to eventually begin innovating (at least within their own brand), and seeing Triumph continuing to grow by putting out new/ updated, highly reviewed models (ignoring the build quality / reliability issues), at what point might MG / Piaggio look at its own brand and lineup and say to itself “maybe it’s time to get serious about being modern.”

I’d be significantly disappointed in MG if they called a V7 850 Racer a Le Mans. They should make it its own thing. MG needs to prove to folks who read moto website reviews and watch YouTube vids that they’re not 20 years behind.

So, they should go electric but keep the look of the current engine.  Modern performance while retaining the Guzzi look.

[Bulldog9]

Personally I really would like to see a standout model that would rise above the current V7 and v9 offerings.

While the 100th anniversary models are tastefully done, I think that ultimately they will just blend into all of the other special models that Moto Guzzi has tried over the last five or six years.

Yes I'm sure that the purest would hate the idea of an 850 CC small block LeMans when the original was a big block, but when you look at horsepower and efficiency the v85 motor is obviously a solid platform for a v85 LeMans.

Would such a bike be a direct competitor to the thruxton or z900r or XRS 900 or the 9rt performance-wise? I don't think so but I also don't think it needs to be. I would see it as an alternative to those and something closer to moto guzzi's heritage.

I also think that if they put the higher output v85 motor with the rider modes and throttle by wire with color matched parts (in gloss paint thank you very much) front to back and a small Cafe fairing, and avoided slapping on those stupid racer medallion things, they would have a solid stand out bike that would be well received.

[twowheeladdict]

Personally I really would like to see a standout model that would rise above the current V7 and v9 offerings.

While the 100th anniversary models are tastefully done, I think that ultimately they will just blend into all of the other special models that Moto Guzzi has tried over the last five or six years.

Yes I'm sure that the purest would hate the idea of an 850 CC small block LeMans when the original was a big block, but when you look at horsepower and efficiency the v85 motor is obviously a solid platform for a v85 LeMans.

Would such a bike be a direct competitor to the thruxton or z900r or XRS 900 or the 9rt performance-wise? I don't think so but I also don't think it needs to be. I would see it as an alternative to those and something closer to moto guzzi's heritage.

I also think that if they put the higher output v85 motor with the rider modes and throttle by wire with color matched parts (in gloss paint thank you very much) front to back and a small Cafe fairing, and avoided slapping on those stupid racer medallion things, they would have a solid stand out bike that would be well received.

With cast wheels and ohlins front and back. 

[Huzo]

With cast wheels and ohlins front and back.

And twin front discs

[Bulldog9]

And twin front discs

With cast wheels and ohlins front and back.

Absolutely to all. 

[Kev m]

Absolutely to all.

Basically what I was describing from the start.

The new LaMonza or whatever the frick they want to call it.

Griso Lite®

[bad Chad]

Apparently Kev, you have been drinking, so we have to take what you say with a grain of salt.  haha

[Kev m]

Apparently Kev, you have been drinking, so we have to take what you say with a grain of salt.  haha

True story, though I hear that's also true when I'm sober.   

[LowRyter]

True story, though I hear that's also true when I'm sober.   

I think we can affirm that.   

[Bulldog9]

Basically what I was describing from the start.

The new LaMonza or whatever the frick they want to call it.

Griso Lite®

Kev, silly us to not just follow your suggestion and just stop the discussion.. 

V85 Lemans is what they should call it. To recap (and shamelessly ignoring detractors)

- Heritage red paint on fenders, tank, side covers, cafe fairing (all currently available from V7/9)
- USD forks/Ohlins shocks (available from V85 but needs better innards)
- Twin disk brakes (available from V85)
- V85 motor with sharper tune, Throttle by wire and 52mm TB (from V85 with unique tune)
- ABS/TC/Performance, Standard and Rain rider modes (software, easy do)
- Modern Sport bike rim/tire sizes with cast rims. (Not sure that these sizes are possible if using current suspension bits from the V7/9/85 parts bin)
- Dual clock gauges with modern info (may need to be developed)
- Clipons VS Standard upright. I would vote for upright, but could go either way.

So.... GRiSO lite..........  Then again, everything will be anyway.

[Kev m]

Kev, silly us to not just follow your suggestion and just stop the discussion.. 

V85 Lemans is what they should call it. To recap (and shamelessly ignoring detractors)

- Heritage red paint on fenders, tank, side covers, cafe fairing (all currently available from V7/9)
- USD forks/Ohlins shocks (available from V85 but needs better innards)
- Twin disk brakes (available from V85)
- V85 motor with sharper tune, Throttle by wire and 52mm TB (from V85 with unique tune)
- ABS/TC/Performance, Standard and Rain rider modes (software, easy do)
- Modern Sport bike rim/tire sizes with cast rims. (Not sure that these sizes are possible if using current suspension bits from the V7/9/85 parts bin)
- Dual clock gauges with modern info (may need to be developed)
- Clipons VS Standard upright. I would vote for upright, but could go either way.

So.... GRiSO lite..........  Then again, everything will be anyway.

Ya see, was that so friggin' hard? No, obviously not. Sheesh 

[twowheeladdict]

 

OK now Bulldog9, when are you going to submit that list to Mandello Del Lario so they can start production?

[Scout63]

An interesting comparison is the recent SR400 release.  It is the same short stroke version of the SR500 with FI to meet emissions requirements.  I wonder if the tooling exists to spit a few thousand LeMans I remakes out into the world complete with optional straight-cut gears and open pipes.  Price it about $14k. I’d think about it. I’m guessing only the Japanese could pull this off.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Hmmm. It must still be Winter..

[PJPR01]

I've never ridden an original LeMans.  However, I own a V11 and ridden the V85TT.

John...what was your feedback on the V85? 

I love my V11, and for me the riding position is simply perfect, it's the most well designed aerodynamic Guzzi I have in the fleet, absolutely zero buffeting at any speed, and it just spins up like crazy.

I hope to try out a V85 sometime in the future, but damn, with a Norge, Griso and V11, what could a V85 give me that would tempt me to add it to the fleet?