"Honda REBEL 1100 Better than a Harley Davidson IRON 1200 Sportster?"

[Moparnut72]

When I was looking for a run around town bike I looked at Enfields, Sportys and Guzzis. No Hondas, or anything else. A V7lll resides in my garage when not on the road. The Enfield didn't do much for me and also has a chain, nope. The Sporty was too much money even though I have owned one and like them, look great, but need a suspension. The V7 checks all the boxes so that is what I have. But of the two being compared, the Sporty all the way. Besides being good looking they are bullet proof. Just my opinion, yours will probably vary.
kk

[Kev m]

Looking at that stats of competing bikes most tend to agree that the one with better stats is a superior bike. Being a superior bike doesn't equate to superior fun or enjoyment. I never stated that. I never said that my opinion was the Honda is more enjoyable or better to ride. I simply stated it was superior. You assumed my opinion was its better to ride. I have not ridden the Rebel or a Harley sportster newer than 2004, so I wouldn't know. That's why I didn't say it's better to ride. Pretty sure I wouldn't like either.

I also never stated that stats are the only metric to buying a motorcycle. Not sure how you got all of this out of "the Honda is superior "? You assume to much.

My old 82 GS1100E was miles more superior than my V7, but the V7 is more enjoyable to ride.

Nonsensical conjecture.

You should have stopped when you were behind.

[Tom]

 

[SIR REAL ED]

This thread is cracking me up. I personally owning a harley roadster love it. Been very reliable, currently its in the shop for the next 50 days till it gets fixed cause i messed up. Man that was painful. I certainly would never leap over to honda. Ive owned a honda 750 and honestly it was my most hated motorcycle.

Everyone has got a preference. Ive ridden a honda cbr 1000 it was fast but not my thing. I have to say i realize they are well made but i find them lacking.

Been in a unique position. Having to borrow my wife's royal enfield 650 for commuting and recently a friend lent his v7 iii.

Ive tried indian and didn't like it. Id really love to try a triumph but much of the styling i don't like. I keep coming back to the harley it's just fun. Counting the days till i get that bike back. That being said i have no logical reason to dislike the honda i just do.

Forgive the rant.

Nothing to forgive.  It is your opinion.  Why anyone expects anyone else to agree with them on subjective matters always puzzles my simple mind.

Difference of opinion is what makes this sight so interesting.

What did you think of your wife's Royal Enfield?  What model is it?

thanks in advance.

[bad Chad]

Tom, how long have you lived in our 50th state?  Right now, many of us are very envious!

[Tom]

I feel for you guys.  I watch the weather reports and Brrrrrrrrrr!  We're currently in between 2 weather systems.  Sunny and bright.  Should be high 70's F maybe low 80's.  We're about 170 miles SE of Honolulu.  The sun is always strong.

Moved back to Hawaii in late '81.  Spent about 11 years away.  Doesn't count school time.  Returned with my Recon and an Eldo. 

Chad.  You lived in Ill.  the whole time?

[Rough Edge racing]

So, Honda reinvents the metric cruiser..Honda info says the engine is tuned to give it more character..Otherwor ds more like a Harley, not the first time they have done that. So Honda must feel they do have a toaster image......Both are good bikes for their intended purpose....It's interesting the unreliable oil leaking Harley image  contantly be repeated so it will never fade away..

[ozarquebus]

The more I look at it, the more I like the engine. If they put it in a standard frame, I would really like it.

[Beowulf]

Nothing to forgive.  It is your opinion.  Why anyone expects anyone else to agree with them on subjective matters always puzzles my simple mind.

Difference of opinion is what makes this sight so interesting.

What did you think of your wife's Royal Enfield?  What model is it?

thanks in advance.
[/quote]

My wife has the ventura blue Royal enfield continental 650. It's honestly su much better than i expected and it is breaking in quite nicely. The gear box has really smoothed out and i find the bike feels very planted.

The bike appreciates 3000-4500 rpms to be in what i consider the sweet spot. The gearing is really low but practical. I think a free flow exhaust would really help.

The valve adjustments are very simple it has indicators for TDC for the right side and left side valves that make adjustments nearly idiot proof. I really like it.

It's a bike that suits a 5 10 frame well. At least inseam wise. Suspension is decent. Hope that helps.

[SIR REAL ED]

My wife has the ventura blue Royal enfield continental 650. It's honestly su much better than i expected and it is breaking in quite nicely. The gear box has really smoothed out and i find the bike feels very planted.

The bike appreciates 3000-4500 rpms to be in what i consider the sweet spot. The gearing is really low but practical. I think a free flow exhaust would really help.

The valve adjustments are very simple it has indicators for TDC for the right side and left side valves that make adjustments nearly idiot proof. I really like it.

It's a bike that suits a 5 10 frame well. At least inseam wise. Suspension is decent. Hope that helps.

Thanks.  I appreciate the input.  I like the looks of it, and the price & weight are very reasonable.  I suspect if I try one out I will really like it, then would have to decide if I really needed another "pure" street bike, or if I would thin the herd to make room.

In my old age very few new bikes appeal to me.


Since this is a REBEL thread.  Anytime I have been in the local Honda shop, I have looked at the REBEL 300 or 500 and thought "Throw an air cooled XL650R single cylinder engine in that chassis, and I just might decide to buy one."

[MMRanch]

Kev you said it all very well :    You still aren't grasping that objective measurements mean nothing if they are not on the evaluation list.

What's a better machine?

It's the one that does what THE EVALUATOR WANTS best.

Peak hp means nothing to me therefore it's irrelevant to the evaluation.

Same with lap times.

If the Honda corners better thank the Sportster it means nothing if the Sportster corners as well as I want.

There's been no demonstration that the Honda will last more miles or require fewer repairs so you haven't proved superiority there.

What machine is superior? The one that requires coolant changes, chain oiling, and valve adjustments dozens of times in 100k miles or the one that will only need a belt tension adjustment with each new tire.

Again superiority depends on the qualities (objective or subjective) being compared.

Your statement assumed only the ones YOU cared about. 
................... ................... ..

I can't understand ... If Honda wanted to make a great bike why would they do something as needy as put a Drive Chain on it instead of a  belt ?   

[JJ]

You know, after giving this a second look, I kinda like it!





That being said, it is any "better" than a classic Sporty?!?  The simple answer is "NO" - just a matter of what you choose to ride.  IMHO, they are BOTH great motorcycles...(...and yes, I have owned and ridden both Honda's and Harley's in my time!)

[Ncdan]

Kev you said it all very well :    You still aren't grasping that objective measurements mean nothing if they are not on the evaluation list.

What's a better machine?

It's the one that does what THE EVALUATOR WANTS best.

Peak hp means nothing to me therefore it's irrelevant to the evaluation.

Same with lap times.

If the Honda corners better thank the Sportster it means nothing if the Sportster corners as well as I want.

There's been no demonstration that the Honda will last more miles or require fewer repairs so you haven't proved superiority there.

What machine is superior? The one that requires coolant changes, chain oiling, and valve adjustments dozens of times in 100k miles or the one that will only need a belt tension adjustment with each new tire.

Again superiority depends on the qualities (objective or subjective) being compared.

Your statement assumed only the ones YOU cared about. 
................... ................... ..

I can't understand ... If Honda wanted to make a great bike why would they do something as needy as put a Drive Chain on it instead of a  belt ?

Mm you are spot on about the belt vs the chain. Even if I leaned toward the Honda, the belt would be the final nail in the Honda’s coffin. And I like Honda.

[LowRyter]

I was reading about the Honda on Cycle World site and read something that seems odd.  And I might've gotten this wrong.

It said that each cylinder had a seperate cam profile from the other.  This was somehow tuned to affect power delivery as well as exhaust note for different rpms. 

This lead me to read about the "unicam" which is pretty trick.  It's a SOHC sitting above the intake valves for direct activation with rockers to the exhaust valves.

[kirby1923]

Mm you are spot on about the belt vs the chain. Even if I leaned toward the Honda, the belt would be the final nail in the Honda’s coffin. And I like Honda.

I have no problem with the small amount of maintence a chain requires on modern sealed chains. I can replace the chain and sprockets on my VFR in 1 hour for less than $200 (and change the ratio if I want.)

One big thing I learned about belts was on a big belt drive HD the sprocket on the rear weighed more than the sprockets AND chain on my VFR. And the belts are quite expensive.(of note on this forum me thinks)

My .02c

:-)

[Rough Edge racing]

I was reading about the Honda on Cycle World site and read something that seems odd.  And I might've gotten this wrong.

It said that each cylinder had a seperate cam profile from the other.  This was somehow tuned to affect power delivery as well as exhaust note for different rpms. 

This lead me to read about the "unicam" which is pretty trick.  It's a SOHC sitting above the intake valves for direct activation with rockers to the exhaust valves.

Simple answer, Honda is tuning the engine to feel and sound more like a Harley. Honda has done this before....

[BrotherJim]

I am not keen on the aesthetics of the Honda, but I am curious about the engine.  No doubt it will see duty in another chassis in the near future (other than the big CRF).  I've always dug the XLs.  Had one years ago, and have owned a Buell S2 Thunderbolt for the past decade or so.  I love the character of those engines and the Evolution is reliable.  A big parallel twin from Honda is a relatively new thing, IIRC, so I guess we'll see how it all shakes out... or not.       

[Kev m]

One big thing I learned about belts was on a big belt drive HD the sprocket on the rear weighed more than the sprockets AND chain on my VFR. And the belts are quite expensive.(of note on this forum me thinks)

But it's pretty rare to replace a belt and not uncommon for them to go 100k+.

[kirby1923]

Yep,I won't dispute that but out here in the west where its very dry/HOT they have a hard life.

The weight is what surprised me. The Feuling Parts people in our machine shop are competing in the Bagger races and they (race promoters) are trying to set some rules as to weight (min) for the HDs and the Feuling folks started weighing everything cause they have to drop 167# to get to min weight, and the first thing they did was ditch the belts and sprockets as they weigh a lot more than chain and sprockets. Chains for equal strength are a bit more efficient as well.

I was quite surprised to see the weight  of the belt set up and slightly better dyno #s with the chain drive, but that is splitting hairs.
I've grown up w/ chains and todays chains are really good.

I prefer them to shafts for sure. (more than one reason).


:-)

[LowRyter]

Simple answer, Honda is tuning the engine to feel and sound more like a Harley. Honda has done this before....

With a 270 crank and 8k redline, perhaps they want it to feel like a Guzzi?

[Kev m]

Yep,I won't dispute that but out here in the west where its very dry/HOT they have a hard life.

The weight is what surprised me. The Feuling Parts people in our machine shop are competing in the Bagger races and they (race promoters) are trying to set some rules as to weight (min) for the HDs and the Feuling folks started weighing everything cause they have to drop 167# to get to min weight, and the first thing they did was ditch the belts and sprockets as they weigh a lot more than chain and sprockets. Chains for equal strength are a bit more efficient as well.

I was quite surprised to see the weight  of the belt set up and slightly better dyno #s with the chain drive, but that is splitting hairs.
I've grown up w/ chains and todays chains are really good.

I prefer them to shafts for sure. (more than one reason).


:-)

Good points and I understand your preferences.

Those points don't sway mine, but I get em!

 

I'll remain glad our Duc is the only chain in the fleet for now!

[Ncdan]

Good points and I understand your preferences.

Those points don't sway mine, but I get em!

 

I'll remain glad our Duc is the only chain in the fleet for now!

I definitely respect Kirbys opinion on the subject of desiring a chain over a shaft driving bike. However it’s hard for me to wrap my head around the why part, unless it’s for Preformance reasons?

[kirby1923]

I definitely respect Kirbys opinion on the subject of desiring a chain over a shaft driving bike. However it’s hard for me to wrap my head around the why part, unless it’s for Preformance reasons?

Personal choice.
Chains are out in the open so you can inspect the condition.
They(chains) are lighter (sorry the aviator and ex club racer likes LIGHT)
They are cheaper.
They make possible to change the gearing.
They are easy to replace..etc

I remember when I was in the adventure touring mode several times(more than a couple) having to drain the rear drive on my BMW GS during a camping pause because of the water in same caused by fording some deep streams that entered thru the vent. Change if we had extra oil to spare or let it sit in an open pan to dry out during the night.

The rear drive on a GS is several $1,000 new or very expensive to rebuild or taking a chance on an E bay find!

I use the best chain I can buy and good quality sprockets and the newer Teflon/oil chain lubes that don't fling, and with ear plugs the little noise the chain generates is not heard.

Motos require a bit of maintence, goes with the territory and part of the experience.

Last but not least I tend to keep a moto long term and Many miles....

:-)

[Rough Edge racing]

 I put a chain drive on my Buell just because chains so cool.....

[Ncdan]

Personal choice.
Chains are out in the open so you can inspect the condition.
They(chains) are lighter (sorry the aviator and ex club racer likes LIGHT)
They are cheaper.
They make possible to change the gearing.
They are easy to replace..etc

I remember when I was in the adventure touring mode several times(more than a couple) having to drain the rear drive on my BMW GS during a camping pause because of the water in same caused by fording some deep streams that entered thru the vent. Change if we had extra oil to spare or let it sit in an open pan to dry out during the night.

The rear drive on a GS is several $1,000 new or very expensive to rebuild or taking a chance on an E bay find!

I use the best chain I can buy and good quality sprockets and the newer Teflon/oil chain lubes that don't fling, and with ear plugs the little noise the chain generates is not heard.

Motos require a bit of maintence, goes with the territory and part of the experience.

Last but not least I tend to keep a moto long term and Many miles....

:-)

Copy that👍

[Tom]

I put a chain drive on my Buell just because chains so cool.....

Spec's on the chain conversion?  Never really thought about it but I would prefer a chain too.   

[JJ]

Just for fun..."The American Classic of the Week" - 1966 Harley-Davidson XLCH

The XLCH was the hot rod of Harley's Sportster line, first produced in 1957.  Reportedly the "CH" stood for "Competition Hot". The XLCH weighed in at 480 pounds.  It's 883cc V-Twin "Ironhead" engine delivered 55 horsepower and could push the bike to 120 miles-per-hour...if you could hang on!!

[twowheeladdict]

Just for fun..."The American Classic of the Week" - 1966 Harley-Davidson XLCH

The XLCH was the hot rod of Harley's Sportster line, first produced in 1957.  Reportedly the "CH" stood for "Competition Hot". The XLCH weighed in at 480 pounds.  It's 883cc V-Twin "Ironhead" engine delivered 55 horsepower and could push the bike to 120 miles-per-hour...if you could hang on!!

And it actually looks like a "Standard" motorcycle. 

[Rough Edge racing]

Spec's on the chain conversion?  Never really thought about it but I would prefer a chain too.   

It was about 6 years ago... it's a kit offered by several aftermarket suppliers. O ring chain .lowered the gearing so the engine spins a few hundred more rpm at 60 mph..The engine smooths out on the rubber mounts at a lower mph and feels better overall. The Buell has no cush drive and supposedly the rubber drive belt does the same thing. I really didn't notice any difference but it's something to think about.
  For the record, I sold the bike to a friend who does land speed racing on Triumphs like me...He ran the Buell at the 1-1/2 mile Maine track. Timed at 132 mph with the engine boucing off the rpm limiter for a good distance.

[Tom]

was that a XB9, XB12 or ??