Riding a Pan America

[Darren Williams]

I stand up occasionally on all my bikes. Usually to stretch my legs and back after a bunch of miles and also to rest my backside. I actually think it is a comfortable position on my GS and dirt bikes.

I just sold my GS to downsize on the adventure bike tool. If I was in the market for another big one (had a 1200GS and a Stelvio) I would definitely look at the PA (other than the Griso, I'm going all Blue). Was happy to read Timmy's ride report and impressions of the bike. Sounds like the bike is as good riding as it is on paper.

After having a GS for 6 years and 50,000+ miles and 4 Guzzi's for over 100,000 miles combined, I understand the "cost of ownership" thing. I don't think a new HD owner has that much to worry about.

Here's to HD for getting this bike right, so far!   

[LowRyter]

Your point?

You've never walked into any other type of dealership in your life and been blown off by a salesperson?  Ever? 

Did you ask where the owner was?  If a salesperson doesn't want to do their job, I ask for the owner or general manager. That is where you get the true feel for the business.  Not some person that might not even ride.  Sounds like you weren't really that interested.

Wait!

You're point was just the opposite

I have never been ignored at a dealership, unless I want to be.

That's what you said the first time.  Now you say that you've been blown off.  WTF????? ??

Get out.  Not wasting time with you.   

[LowRyter]

I stand up occasionally on all my bikes. Usually to stretch my legs and back after a bunch of miles and also to rest my backside. I actually think it is a comfortable position on my GS and dirt bikes.

I just sold my GS to downsize on the adventure bike tool. If I was in the market for another big one (had a 1200GS and a Stelvio) I would definitely look at the PA (other than the Griso, I'm going all Blue). Was happy to read Timmy's ride report and impressions of the bike. Sounds like the bike is as good riding as it is on paper.

After having a GS for 6 years and 50,000+ miles and 4 Guzzi's for over 100,000 miles combined, I understand the "cost of ownership" thing. I don't think a new HD owner has that much to worry about.

Here's to HD for getting this bike right, so far!   

c'mon,  790 Tenere or 790 KTM or Honda Africa Corps? 

[Solorider73]

I'm not surprised that it handles well and hides its weight.  Manufacturers are getting better at lowering weight and hiding the weight of modern bikes.  Harley has sufficient cash flow and resources to make any kind of bike they want, so it's not surprising that they were able pull it off.

[Guzzistajohn]

I stand on the pegs rarely but occasionally while at slow speeds, like going through a town while on a long ride. The only reasons for this riding position is to either cool and relieve my butt, stretch my legs, or pull my britches legs back down. I could care less if it impresses or offends anyone else as long as it fix’s my issues at the time.
As far as the PA HD I’ll definitely take a serious look at them in June when my local dealer says they’ll be out.

Zackly! I stand on the Tiger quite a bit. Soreness begins when blood flow is restricted, standing relieves that. I'm way beyond trying to impress anyone. And I've done plenty of riding on the pegs on trials bikes. It's pretty natural feeling to me.

Glad to see a good report on the Harley, I like dual sport bikes. Functionality makes more sense than looks on these machines.

[Bulldog9]

Here is a good article.  Of course because I am an addict, I have the low boil interest in my blood, 'but then I see her face (and pricetag)' 

https://www.cycleworld.com/breaking-down-harley-davidson-pan-america-frame-by-frame/

[twowheeladdict]

Wait!

You're point was just the opposite

I have never been ignored at a dealership, unless I want to be.

That's what you said the first time.  Now you say that you've been blown off.  WTF????? ??

Get out.  Not wasting time with you.   

So my phone turned I'd into I, but play your games.   

[Dirk_S]

Jeez. Harley brings out the worst in everyone 

[bad Chad]

The point is, don’t ride a Harley, no matter how ugly it is.

[Solorider73]

  I just can't make some of you happy , first you complain I'm to serious , then you complain when I attempt to be funny .

 Dusty

It's the internet.  Everyone turns into your bipolar cousin.

Also, I keep having to relearn that sarcasm doesn't translate well in text.

Keeping it on topic, I hope the Pan America becomes one of HD's best sellers.  It would give them more freedom to step out of the cruiser box.  A company like HD can do both.

[Scout63]

Only a Harley thread can go three pages in a day.  I’m not a huge fan, nor am I a fan of pure sports bikes or big touring rigs.  I do like watching what HD is doing, and they and Royal Enfield seem to be really working at getting interesting bikes out there.  Good for them.  As for standing on the pegs, I thought everyone did it.  I’m guessing those of who learned in the dirt are more likely. It’s pretty handy when the road gets wonky.

[greer]

You know, I find the look of the PanAm to be almost refreshing compared to all the bird beak bikes.

Sarah

[egschade]

Back to the point of the original post, that the bike is FAR BETTER than expected is a revelation. It's possible that HD has finally had a real paradigm shift and is now building real performance motorcycles on their own? I'm looking forward to seeing some additional road tests and one at my local dealer.

Looks like the Pan America is just the first step in a long overdue diversification of their lineup. At $20K it had better be.  They'll need some additional models at lower price points if they really expect to lure more riders to the brand to address their aging demographic problem. Wishing HD all the best with their attempt to remain competitive and a viable US based manufacturer.

[Chuck in Indiana]

and I have ridden litterally thousands.

Hmmm, that sounds like a stretch. I've ridden a *lot* of bikes over the last 60 some years, but I seriously doubt I'd crack 100.

[Rough Edge racing]

Hmmm, that sounds like a stretch. I've ridden a *lot* of bikes over the last 60 some years, but I seriously doubt I'd crack 100.

  I ridden maybe a few dozen, none newer than 2006 and  one Japanese road bike, yet I could comment on junk new Harleys ....

[BrotherJim]

I don't know... can I stick a batwing on there?     Seriously, though, I am ready to ride one of these!

[timmythecop]

Hmmm, that sounds like a stretch. I've ridden a *lot* of bikes over the last 60 some years, but I seriously doubt I'd crack 100.

There is a bike repair shop in the family.
I am a retired police motor sergeant.
I test ride motorcycles for a living now.

Thousands.

[Motormike]

I'm not as concerned about the bike as I am their new CEO.  He's indicated (with his so-called "rewire" plan) he wants to double-down on Harleys core constituents, and sell big expensive bikes with high margins.  The first thing he did as CEO was drop (or at least slow way down..time will tell) the Bronx and other models based around the new engine.  I seriously suspect he would liked to have killed the Pan America, but development was too far along. He's cut lots of other mainstay models from the air-cooled line up as well.  I think his turn-around plan of "sell less-and-less for more-and-more" is absolutely the wrong way to go, but the board of directors didn't ask me.

[egschade]

I'm not as concerned about the bike as I am their new CEO. >SNIP<

Primary reason why I sold my HD stock. Doesn't sound like they're looking much beyond the next quarter's profits despite rolling out a revolutionary (for them) model. Hoping the Pan Am is a HUGE success and it wakes the big wigs up.

[Dirk_S]

I'm not as concerned about the bike as I am their new CEO.  He's indicated (with his so-called "rewire" plan) he wants to double-down on Harleys core constituents, and sell big expensive bikes with high margins.  The first thing he did as CEO was drop (or at least slow way down..time will tell) the Bronx and other models based around the new engine.  I seriously suspect he would liked to have killed the Pan America, but development was too far along. He's cut lots of other mainstay models from the air-cooled line up as well.  I think his turn-around plan of "sell less-and-less for more-and-more" is absolutely the wrong way to go, but the board of directors didn't ask me.

I think I disagree. I’m not a business expert, so the numbers game and where dollars are allocated is ultimately beyond me, so consider this only as an abstract understanding...

From what I read, the CEO wants to focus on high end bikes, rather than economical budget bikes. They’re not saying they want to go all cruisers, but rather bikes made of quality. So no more Street 500/750, no more entry level, no more...Sportster? No more sub-$10k bikes. These bikes are American-made, and American-made products aren’t known for being cheap, so why bother trying to cut corners? Let the Royal Enfields and Japanese bikes et al compete for the budget bikes. Harley’s in it to save themselves, and they’re biggest competitor for what they do - American V-twins - is Indian. Polaris/Indian has been gaining due to both styling and performance, as well as a successful track-inspired bike. Harley’s looking to compete with them, because if they focus on budget bikes (and let’s be honest - standard/neutral-seating-positioned bikes are the bikes you’ll find in that economical category), they won’t gain ground. Focus on quality, less quantity. ADV bikes are still hot. They may be a hair late to the game, but they’re ahead of Indian. The ADV crowd likes to spend money on products they don’t really need... or don’t mind paying a higher price for. They put out a quality product in this in regards to parts, electronics, and engineering. This is the first platform for the engine. More will come. I’m willing to bet that Bronx will come into action, but they can’t go show all their hand right away.

I’d LOVE to see Harley go cheaper, but it just doesn’t make sense unless they direct manufacturing to a cheaper labor force. And I don’t think the U.S. government or HD employees will be all too happy if they do that. They best be smart to think “well, if we’re not gonna out out cheap product, we best put out really GOOD product.” Nobody asks for a budget-friendly MV Augusta.

Stream-of conscience rant over. Feel free to tear apart.

[bad Chad]

I don't get all this gushing over HD?  Maybe the Pan Am is a very good adventure bike, it should be.  Why are so many surprised that it's possible?

Really, the idea that its a huge weight off their shoulders to show they can do something on par with others in the industry is dumb.  HD has huge resources to pull from, they can buy anyone they need to make a good adv bike if needed.

Some of you are getting carried away in a river of Kool Aid, "a Paradigm shift"???

One guy apparently rode one, the guy who "literally has ridden "thousands" of motorcycles"    Think about that, how long would it take to ride just 2000 motorcycles?   But hey, Timmy said so, so who are we too question? He says it so incredible  it can't possibly weigh well over 500, must only be 400 and some change!   

[inditx]

The point is, don’t ride a Harley, no matter how ugly it is.

Now that there’s funny I don't care who you are... 
inditx

[timmythecop]

One guy apparently rode one, the guy who "literally has ridden "thousands" of motorcycles"    Think about that, how long would it take to ride just 2000 motorcycles?   But hey, Timmy said so, so who are we too question? He says it so incredible  it can't possibly weigh well over 500, must only be 400 and some change!   

Well. If i rode 5 bikes a day(i do)......there are 260 work days in a year, so in 2 years that would be 2600 bikes. 

But that is beside the point. The real point is you are so smart, that you uncovered my diabolical plan to come onto an obscure italian bike forum to lie about riding an american bike, then lie about how many bikes I have been on. For good measure, I embellished how good it was. You got me.

The bike wieghs 534 pounds with fuel. I stated that above.

The point some lesser folks are getting is Harley Davidson has made a fantastic, potentially industy leading bike, after decades of good ideas with terrible execution and missing the plot.

[OldMojo]

You know, I find the look of the PanAm to be almost refreshing compared to all the bird beak bikes.

Sarah

Agreed.

On the ADV bike homeliness scale, with the fetching V85 being a 1 and the googley-eyed GS being a 10, I'd say the PA rates maybe a 4.

The KTMs are an 11.

Glad to hear the good review. Someone at Harley knew they needed to hit it out of the park in order to have a snowball's chance. No one is gonna cut them any slack on this.

Even so, it'll be an uphill climb, I fear. Will Harley be willing to shepherd this thing into a solid market position? They haven't always demonstrated that kind of patience in the past.

I'd say both prior viewpoints discerning HD Corporate's strategy have merits, but the incentive to just "run home to mama" with the big cruisers must be considerable.

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

Boy Harley really gets people riled up!

I'll just be over here standing on my pegs and letting the wind gently rustle my nards

[Seventy One]

I suspect the Bronx was held back to prevent it from stealing the spotlight from the PA. If (when) they release it next year after the death of the Sportster, H-D will have remained in the headlines for two years strait.  Most of the advertising they are getting now is free and comes in the form of online reviews, You-Tube videos and forum discussions like this. It would be wise to capitalize on it and spread it out a bit.

Also, announcing the death of Sportster now would make selling current inventory that much more difficult. 

With that being said, I'm not sure I'd call the Tiger 800 "feathery". Triumph said the 800 was 474lbs. H-D has the base PA at 530lbs. The OP's guesstimate that it "feels 100lbs lighter than it is" seem pretty accurate to me when you consider that it has 50% more horsepower than the 800. Enough HP will make almost anything feel feathery.

I've been visiting lots of dealers lately and there is virtually nothing in stock. Kawasaki, Suzuki and Honda are all having supply/production issues. I've been looking at V-Strom 1050's but at this rate the PA may arrive first. My Versys will never be worth more than it is right now. I'm getting very excited about the PA. .

[kballowe]

Boy Harley really gets people riled up!

I'll just be over here standing on my pegs and letting the wind gently rustle my nards

[steven c]

Thanks for posting you first hand account of riding the bike. First on I have read.

[kingoffleece]

I agree with Sarah on the looks.

As for H-D, well, THAT'S quite a conversation, but remember:  they sell over 200,000 bikes a year.  The issue isn't all about sales-it's about a horribly bloated corporate structure that can't make money selling 200,000 bikes a year.  ANY CEO should be aware of that.  That Levitich couldn't show the board how his plan would accomplish that they (the board) booted him and are trying a new plan.  They HAD to.  There is no way the Bronx experience won't show up in some form or fashion in the next few years for The MoCo.  Unknown is what it will be.  Sportster replacement, American sport bike?  For sure the motor work done on a wee bit smaller engine will surface in the near future.  They won't be able to meet EURO regs for that much longer and the twin cooled bikes have been accepted in great amounts by the faithful.  I know dozens of guys who have ridden or purchased the new motors and like them just fine.  More than not they like the motor more than what they have.  Not ALL-ok?  I know your brother-in law's brother -in -law won't be caught DEAD on no stinking water cooled bike-but hey, we know what happened to the dinosaurs!

It'll  be interesting for SURE and will be a classic business school example years out no matter which way it goes.

[LowRyter]

Back to the point of the original post, that the bike is FAR BETTER than expected is a revelation. It's possible that HD has finally had a real paradigm shift and is now building real performance motorcycles on their own? I'm looking forward to seeing some additional road tests and one at my local dealer.

Looks like the Pan America is just the first step in a long overdue diversification of their lineup. At $20K it had better be.  They'll need some additional models at lower price points if they really expect to lure more riders to the brand to address their aging demographic problem. Wishing HD all the best with their attempt to remain competitive and a viable US based manufacturer.

It's pretty ironic that the bike has gotten praise as a great design but they replaced the CEO that was responsible for it and killed some of the resulting follow-on models.