clutch inner body not going in far

[motospotter]

I pulled my tranny to work on my engine main seal. Now putting it back together the pushrod doesn't extend enough to move the clutch. I feel like the inner body is catching on something ...  What could it be ?
 

[Tom H]

You did put the little cup in your picture in??

Tom

[motospotter]

yes I did, inner body, throw out bearing two washers/spacers and outerbody, sits flush but no movement.

[John A]

Did you install the clutch correctly?

[pehayes]

yes I did, inner body, throw out bearing two washers/spacers and outerbody,

This won't have any impact on your current issue, but look at the sequence you described above.  Did you install the two washers together?  Or did you install one on each side of the radial bearing?  These are definitely NOT spacers.  They are hardened race washers and serve as an integral part of the bearing system.  If you put them together, the system is going to decompose quite rapidly.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Tom H]

Patrick beat me to it.....

If I'm reading your last post right. 2 Washers....I'm sure you know they should be the washers the bearing rides on. 1 on each side of the bearing.

Where your outer body is sitting is about right. I don't remember how far out the push rod should be?

Tom

[pehayes]

sits flush but no movement.

What are you using to try and compress this clutch?  Have you reinstalled the engine/transmission into the frame?  You can't press on the transmission lever by hand.  The spring forces are far too great.  There is a huge amount of mechanical leverage advantage from the hand lever and cable system.  If you are still out on the floor, you might attach or clamp some other tool or bar to make the transmission lever about 18" long for temporary manual activation.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[pehayes]

the pushrod doesn't extend enough to move the clutch. I feel like the inner body is catching on something ...

Please clarify.  Are  you writing about the transmission alone?  Or have you bolted the transmission to the engine?  If the transmission is alone on the floor as pictured, then yes, the entire throwout system should slide back and forth quite easily.  However, you refer to it not extending enough to move the clutch.  So, the comments don't match the pictures.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[motospotter]

a little frustrated but. the rod and inner body and throw out bearing and spacers/washers and outer body are correct. There seems to be just enough movement that it should actuate the clutch(it takes very little movement I assume). In the picture the rod and mechanism are pushed in as far forward as it can go. When I installed it stayed about the same. With a clamp I could not get it to move. I pulled it apart really it seems like the pushrod got shorter or the hole in the cup got deeper. ugh ... with the cup in hand I cannot get it to push the rod back while holding it against the inside of the hub.

[Tom H]

Is the outer body a single or double O ring version?

What push rod seal did you use? Stock cone style or the O ring's?

It does not take much movement to make the clutch work.

With trans sitting on the floor/table. Can you push the push rod back towards the rear of the trans with just your fingers?

Tom

[motospotter]

single outer body though I do own a double. Cone style seals(working well) I installed them. pics of rod pushed back and outer body hanging out.





rod half







outer body pushed in as far as it will go rod fully extende.






just can’t any movement to the cup.
I just did this same job to my other goose...

[Tom H]

Could a push rod seal have moved out of place?

If this isn't solved shortly, I'll check my bikes to see where they are at.

Tom

[jwinwi]

Or one of the races fell out of position?

[lucian]

I just finished the same job on a tonti and one of the sd tech friction plates was not machined properly and would bind on the center hub.  Make sure your hub slides easily though both friction plates before assembling the clutch. Make sure again once the clutch is assembled and the flywheel is bolted on. Then bolt the hub on the tranny input shaft and proceed. When installing the trans. it should be able to slide all the way up to the bell housing without resistance or using the bolts to pull things tight.  A welders vise grip clamp works well to pull the clutch arm as one jaw fits nicely in the cable end of the arm and the other jaw you can hook around the front side of the clutch housing and squeeze. You can then use the drive shaft on the tranny output shaft to test the clutch operation before going any further .   

[Tom H]

The first two are with SD Tech and a double O ring outer body. I did not use a ball bearing in the inner body, just stock. 3rd is with some standard plates. All are just slightly below level. Both have near new clutches.





The lever only moves the push rod about 1/8" or so.

As mentioned, check your cone seals and the 2 washers to be sure they are in the right place.

Tom

[John A]

i think either the cup is off center or its got a warped floater plate

[Don G]

You may require a longer push rod or some people add a bearing ball to get the length, I dont know the ball size off hand as I just made a longer push rod to rectify my problem. DonG

[Tom H]

I believe there should be 2 cone seals. Could you have left one in making it 3?

Pull your outer, inner body and bearing and push rod. Look from the rear into the input shaft where the push rod goes through. IIRR there should be a larger ID area for about 1/2" then the smaller ID where the push rod um...rides. See if there is anything stuck in the larger ID area. A flashlight, pick of some sort or small screwdriver would help. IIRR the inner body goes into this large ID section. If let's say a seal was left in there it could keep the inner body from going in?

Tom

[LesP]

Go back to the basics and the 'if it wasn't broken before and its the same parts it shouldn't be now.
Remove all the parts with the box being on the bench.
Look up the plunger bore.
Remove the O-ring and put the bits back in with no push rod cup seals and move them with a finger each end to see the travel. (or cycle the arm and one finger on the hub push rod end)

Taking for granted the drive hub is fully seated.

[motospotter]

I have taken it apart and I’m doing it again. I did

notice that the dot on the spring plate was not in it’s correct position ?!? Let’s see what happens.

[LesP]

Why is the plate sitting so high (8 spring ? )
Maybe MG Cycle sent me springs for geriatrics if those are seated.

[John A]

I have taken it apart and I’m doing it again. I did

notice that the dot on the spring plate was not in it’s correct position ?!? Let’s see what happens.

That particular dot is to line up the spring pockets.

[Wayne Orwig]

If the dot is not in place, the springs will not be in the pockets. That may be binding it.

[leroy_can]

If the dot is not in place, the springs will not be in the pockets. That may be binding it.

   The dot needs to be lined up for sure or it has no chance to work right. I happen to have a trans on the floor and the 2 pictures show it with the plunger flush and roughly 5/16" of exposed pushrod. Holding one finger on the pushrod and operating the clutch arm it moves back and forth with virtually no effort whatsoever. I'm sure that dot is your smoking gun. I assembled my clutch less than 2 months back for the first time in years and saw the dot and remembered it's significance but wasn't sure of the mark on the clutch so spent a while trying it in all positions till I was sure I had the right one and it was good.

[leroy_can]

   One more thing,unless I missed it in the fine print it was never clarified if it was with the trans separate that the pushrod wouldn't function or only not operating with the trans bolted in place. Also it's hard to say for sure from a picture but when my trans hub teeth get stepped like that it's pretty much time to replace. Especially if your friction plates are new at this time then that old hub will only cause faster wear to the splines on the plates

[motospotter]

I had seated the springs correctly even though I didn’t use the dot. What is the ball bearing ??? I’m gonna search in a minute, getting hungry. I did put a bb in the inner and the clutch budged just a bit.

[motospotter]

does not work when mated to the engine.

[leroy_can]

  The picture from Les P. is the correct depth it should sit at with properly seated springs. Only correct position is at the dot but others could be so close it may appear good. I don't know how far apart the bike is but it is very difficult to assemble unless the engine is tilted forward at least 45 degrees or more so the springs sit properly. When it sits at the depth as per Les P.s photo evenly all around it's right. I've never looked farther into it but most likely it has to do with the number of spring locations 8 vs the number of outer teeth? My thought is if the number of outer teeth was not divisible by 8 then there could only be one correct orientation. If that theory is out to lunch I'm sure I will hear about it.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

The dot aligns with a faint line on the flywheel. If the that line has been removed by enthusiastic cleaning, there should still be an arrow (Loopframe flywheels) or a TDC (left cylinder) mark (Tontis) that it aligns with.

There was no ball bearing inserted into the inner body originally. One is sometimes fitted to make up for thicker plates or a pushrod that has worn shorter than spec.

[pehayes]

I had seated the springs correctly even though I didn’t use the dot.

Now HUGE hint.  There are TWO sets of spring seats.  Once set is in the face of the flywheel.  The other set is in the back side of the pressure plate.  The two sets of seats have to aligned so that the springs will seat fully.  The only way to align the spring seats is to match the dot with the flywheel mark.  If you didn't do that, the springs don't seat properly, the pressure plate will not recess properly, and the clutch won't work. Try it again with proper alignment.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA