Redline 10W-60

[SmithSwede]

Redline makes a 10W-60 oil, and also a “motorcycle” 20W-60.

I contacted Redline and they advised that their 10W-60 contains 1225ppm zinc and 1375ppm phosphorus, which they say is plenty of protection for Guzzi flat tappet cam and lifters.

Just passing this along

[Muzz]

Has Guzzi ever said how much zinc they recommend Prescott?

[SmithSwede]

Not that I’m aware of.   

Guzzi specifies a SG oil, a rating which implies a fairly healthy dose of ZDDP.   I’ve read that 1200 ppm is a healthy dose; 1000 ppm or lower is getting marginal.  The more recent grades tend to have reduced levels in order to protect catalytic converters, and based on the assumption you are not running it in some antique tractor engine with highly loaded flat tappets. 

So the concern is you might buy a modern oil that seems good, and has a rating that is supposedly “backwards compatible” with the older SG, yet not have a sufficient amount of the ZDDP.

You actually don’t want more than about 1800 ppm since that level fosters corrosion. 

Like with a any oil related discussion, I don’t think this matters to 99% of people who will probably sell the bike after less than 20,000 miles.   The exception is probably hard core Guzzi riders who, no joke, plan to run their bike to 100,000, 200,000 or more miles. 

[sign216]

Swede,

I'm impressed that Redline got back to you w the data. 

I bit the bullet and got some ZDDP additive.  With that, I can buy a wider variety of oils.
Especially since Guzzi dry clutches don't limit us to motorcycle oils, so we can get oils w friction modifiers.

Joe

[SmithSwede]

Swede,

I'm impressed that Redline got back to you w the data. 

I but the bullet and got some ZDDP additive.  With that, I can buy a wider variety of oils.
Especially since Guzzi dry clutches don't limit us to motorcycle oils, so we can get oils w friction modifiers.

Joe

Joe.  I was surprised as well.   I sent a random email to Redline last night about 11:00 pm, expecting no answer or maybe a non-answer 10 days later. 

Nope.  First thing this morning I got a cogent response.  I’m impressed. 

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

I use Valvoline VR1 20w-50. 1300 ppm Zinc and 1200 ppm phosphorus. Bike seems happy.

[chrisfer]

Redline makes a 10W-60 oil, and also a “motorcycle” 20W-60.

I contacted Redline and they advised that their 10W-60 contains 1225ppm zinc and 1375ppm phosphorus, which they say is plenty of protection for Guzzi flat tappet cam and lifters.

Just passing this along

Thank you for this feedback 

[Noguzznoglory]

I use Valvoline VR1 20w-50. 1300 ppm Zinc and 1200 ppm phosphorus. Bike seems happy.

This is what I switched to since I can’t find the eni/agitprop oil any more. On the shelf in most of the big box parts stores

[elvisboy77]

This is what I switched to since I can’t find the eni/agitprop oil any more. On the shelf in most of the big box parts stores

I think Guzzi switched its recommendation to Castrol not too long ago.  That is what my manual calls for.

[Ncdan]

Mobil 1 full synthetic 15-50, heavy duty, in every bike for many years and miles with absolutely no issues noted. Find at Wally World (Walmart)
For around 25 bucks for a 5 quart jug👍

[egschade]

Been running Motul 8100 X-Power 10W60 in my last 2 Guzzis and plan to use it on the V85TT's first service. Can't find a spec sheet with Z and Ph info though...

ACEA A3 / B4 - API SN / CF (Backwardly compatible with API SJ, SL, SM)

[Roebling3]

Thank you SS, -and others, for sharing. Seems a very good application for 650cc 4 valve engines   R3~

[sib]

I think Guzzi switched its recommendation to Castrol not too long ago.  That is what my manual calls for.

That's true, but the spec still calls for API grade SG.  If you believe that the newest grade, SN, supersedes or "includes" SG, then go ahead and use it.  If you suspect that the newer grades strive to minimize catalytic converter poisoning by Zn or P, then you might want to stick with oils of the recommended API grade SG.

[Two Checks]

Guzzi recommends Castrol because BP pays for that recommendation.


Why do people call lifters tappets? They don't tap anything and if they do you have a big problem!

[SmithSwede]

Why do people call lifters tappets? They don't tap anything and if they do you have a big problem!

The term “tappet” dates back to 1715 as a reference to part of the valve system on the Newcomen steam engine.  The tappets were actuated by the plugtree.  And that way, the poor little boy named Humphrey Potter didn’t have to work the valves manually anymore. 

Hey, you asked!  And it that’s good enough for Newcomen, it’s good enough for me. 

[Two Checks]

Thank you for that. But, that begs these questions:
What part did he call the tappet, and;
Why don't people call roller lifters tappets?


The reason I ask is all the tapping is done at the valve/rocker interface.


Not a criticism, just curiosity.

[Bulldog9]

Good to know of another high Zinc option. I use Brad Penn or VR1 in my flat tappet motors.

[elvisboy77]

Guzzi recommends Castrol because BP pays for that recommendation.


Why do people call lifters tappets? They don't tap anything and if they do you have a big problem!

Are you saying Guzzi's recommendation is wrong?  Please enlighten me.

[SmithSwede]

Thank you for that. But, that begs these questions:
What part did he call the tappet, and;
Why don't people call roller lifters tappets?


The reason I ask is all the tapping is done at the valve/rocker interface.


Not a criticism, just curiosity.

Two Cheeks.   Why do you hate little Humphrey Potter?  His life was improved by these tappets you denigrate. 

 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Are you saying Guzzi's recommendation is wrong?  Please enlighten me.

Not at all. Through automotive history, oil companies have paid manufacturers to "recommend" their products.
Castrol is new for Guzzi.. not too long ago, it needed to be Agip. 
Back in 1930, Sinclair paid Monocoupe to recommend their gas and oil. <shrug> I have a Sinclair gas pump in front of the hanger..

[bad Chad]

Of course Chuck is right.  Guzzi like most Mfg recommend a particular brand for the reason the former cow milker just said, but they are just that recommendations, not demands.  Guzzi says as long as it meets the requirements stated, it doesn't matter who's name is one the bottle.

[moto-uno]

 As long as there is clearance (anywhere) in a valve train the term tappet ( it is a tapping sound after all ) seems appropriate .
Most roller lifter valve trains are hydraulic and by nature maintain zero lash , so no tappey tappey :) . Peter

[Rough Edge racing]

Try to get Castrol to tell you how much ZDDP is in their oils...Do they list it on their websites.

[bad Chad]

Beats me?

[elvisboy77]

Try to get Castrol to tell you how much ZDDP is in their oils...Do they list it on their websites.

And yet, in spite of that, it is Guzzi's recommendation.  Hmmm I wonder why that is?

[Rough Edge racing]

 The big deal about ZDDP comes from hot rodders and racers running older tech OHV V8's. Open valve spring pressures can be 250 pounds or as much as 750 pounds...How much sping pressure is in a stock pushrod non high performance Guzzi? Generally a guy rebuilding a stock flat tappet engines used a High ZDDP break in oil and then a better mineral oil, nothing special...But proceed at your own risk...
 Oh, flat tappets are not flat and the damn things are lifters 

[Bulldog9]

The big deal about ZDDP comes from hot rodders and racers running older tech OHV V8's. Open valve spring pressures can be 250 pounds or as much as 750 pounds...How much sping pressure is in a stock pushrod non high performance Guzzi? Generally a guy rebuilding a stock flat tappet engines used a High ZDDP break in oil and then a better mineral oil, nothing special...But proceed at your own risk...
 Oh, flat tappets are not flat and the damn things are lifters 

It's all semantics. Generally when I refer to a lifter as a flat tappet I'm referring to a solid non roller lifter. Others will just call it a solid lifter. Obviously, flat tablets or solid lifters tend to be harder on the cam then I hydraulic or roller lifter so a high zinc content oil is helpful to protect the camshaft and lifter itself from scoring.

I'm not exactly sure for hydraulic lifters, but I do know that solid lifters or tappets tend to spin in the bore increasing the need for high sink content. Roller lifters obviously do not spin in the bore.

And as everyone knows.. valve tap on a Moto Guzzi is a sign of a healthy motor :-) what's that saying? Loud valves save lives?

[Rough Edge racing]

 The crown on the lifter, both solid an hydraulic, the lifter being off set to the cam lobe and the taper of the lobe all contribute to lifter spin...
  The millions of Jeeps on the road with the OHV inline six have so called flat tappets. The engines are noted for very long life...I doubt many owners are concerned with oil additives and just use whatever ....It all depends on the grind of the cam..

[oldbike54]

 I always thought they were called tappets because Gork the alien from the planet Gesundheidt called them tappets .

 Dusty

[John Warner]

Tappet
Pronunciation /ˈtapɪt/

NOUN
A moving part in a machine which transmits motion in a straight line between a cam and another part.

They don't 'lift' anything, not directly at least.
Why not call the Push-Rods and the Rockers 'Lifters' as well, and the Cam(s) for that matter?