2001 California EV: Charging Issue...

[old strombolone]

2001 California EV....Battery isn't charging.  The battery is 3 years old.


Bike is running like a top.

When starting bike a few weeks ago, noticed battery seemed a bit weaker.

Kept using the bike, and with each subsequent start, the starter seemed to turn over slower.

Eventually the battery was barely cranking the starter...(it would always start though!) 

Put the bike on a trickle charger...thought that maybe the battery was "going".

Then started up bike, it started up instantly....

Later, I pulled the seat to check the battery terminals, and noticed that the battery screws were "kinda loose" (Not cranked down firmly).

Hmmmm.....

Started the bike, and while running, put a Multimeter across the battery terminals to see if I was getting a charging voltage...didn't appear so!

Multimeter read just above the 12v or so battery voltage. I was expecting 13-14 volts.

Questions:
1) I just did a continuity test on the stator: Manual states .2-.3 Ohms...I read .4 ohms. Could a tenth of an ohm difference matter?
2) Stator lam stack to wire connection test was made...No short to ground
3) Voltage regulator: Marked clearly on the VR is the statement to the effect DO NOT DISCONNECT BATTERY WHEN ENGINE IS RUNNING...Could loose battery terminals have "Toasted" my Voltage regulator?

I am about to do the Alternator output test:
1) Disconnect the VR Connections to the Alternator
2) Ensure that ground lug is fastened to Voltage Regulator (VR) Securely
3) Start engine, and rev engine to 1000, 3000, 6000 RPM for voltage reads of 15, 40, 80 VAC

Questions:
I need to check all the wiring connections to the voltage regulator, to check for any short between any of those connections and the VR housing (ground). I can't seem to see where the VR regulator connectors go...are they under the tank? Or can I remove those chrome "side-covers" which are on either side of the steering column/frame?

Anyone with experience removing/replacing what is apparently a Ducati system Voltage Regulator or Alternator, please chime in with any constructive comments.

By the way: I did yank the battery, take it to where I bought it (Interstate Battery), and they did two tests on it, declaring it "very good". It survived a full load test....and they said the cranking amp output was actually a little better than the rating on the battery. So Its good...

Thanks In Advance

(Newly Retired...time to wrench-on-the-Guzzi, but its been years since I've had to do it..!)

Mike 

[Tkelly]

I just solved a similar issue with a 3 yo battery.Since my knowledge os electrics is minuscule,I put a new battery in and solved the problem.I figured the worst case scenario would be that I bought a new battery before I hauled it to the shop and had whatever the problem fixed.

[Tom H]

When you used the multi meter at the battery, you did rev the bike up to about 2500 rpm?

I had a bad battery. The kind with the little window that shows green, black or red. My battery was always black for about a year or so. This was on a new truck with all the electrics. It would give me errors that the battery was low. Took it to the auto store to test with their cabinet style machine and they said it was fine. Still had issues. New battery solved the problem.

Good luck,
Tom

[John A]

https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/category-s/1846.htm
If you need a regulator, I’ve used on of these and have had good luck with them

[Don G]

I have used aftermarket regulators for Harley Davidson Big Twins, cant remember part# off hand, a little searching this forum will turn it up for you.  DonG

[Wayne Orwig]

I did not read all of the other replies, so this may have been covered.

1) On that EV, the charging system is very weak at low RPM. As in, it will be draining the battery at idle. You really need to rev to about 3500 and check the voltage.

2) The light on the dash on that model is pretty worthless.

3) The first failure point to check is the cable coming up from the alternator. There is a connector on there with two yellow wires. They tend to corrode and fail easily from heat and water. Inspect those. Maybe squeeze and tighten the connections.

4) That regulator / rectifier from Ducati tends to be a weak point too. If all of the fuses and connections, including a good ground, look good, EuroMotoElectric carries replacements.

[Guzzidad]

   To bench test the R/R make sure there is no continuity between any of the leads and no continuity between any lead and the case of the R/R

[Kiwi_Roy]

Is the Tachometer working?
The Headlight should also be on?
They share a fuse with the Voltage regulator, you should have 12 Volts on the black wire of the black/white pair when the engine is running
Run an extra ground cable between the regulator case and an engine bolt e.g. timing cover screw
As someone else said the two yellow wires from the alternator to the regulator are a known point of failure, they  can break off at the connection to windings and the bullet connectors burn up. I often suggest replacing the bullet connectors with crimp links.
The Voltage reference is not constant, its really not a good system, I eventually gave up on the one on my VII Sport and went for a permanently connected type of regulator.

[old strombolone]

Great Comments All...
And good to hear from Rodekyll and Wayne Orwig. Its been years since I've been a regular reader, and you guys know what you are doing.

The wires from the Alternator look very good. The banana-plug type connectors were remarkably in good condition...tight fitting,etc. I was actually quite surprised to see them so clean, considering they are up front. The super-crappy mount for the Voltage Regulator (a plate with two floating nuts, and a Nut-Bar to hold it all in) looks like an afterthought design. I'm going to have to use double-sided foam tape to put the nut bar back in place.

Are you telling me that you used a Harley Davidson or other Voltage Regulator in a 2001 California setup? To replace the Ducati Regulator? One other thing: I've got that huge three-ring binder shop manual for the bike..but can't seem to find the CD that came with it. I'm in need of a schematic for the bike....anyone have ideas about on-line resources? One big PDF file would be nice.

I'm going to be testing the alternator output within the next few days. My multi-meter needs a little pig-tail set up so I can do it and rev the bike at the same time...(Only have two hands here!)   More comments are welcome guys...thanks

[Kiwi_Roy]

As said by others the grounding of the regulator is critical, the power that flows to the battery has to flow back to the regulator case, from there it travels back from the regulator case back to the windings.
 
Several of the regulators I pulled apart had failed diodes D4 or D5 shown at the top of the diagram, they get too hot and melt the leads off (just soldered on) its very easy to check if you hav a meter with the diode test function --->|----, with the red lead on either of the yellow wires it will read about 0.5 Volt to red wire.
If you trace the current path from one of the alternator yellow wires it runs through the diode D4 for example through the battery to chassis, to the regulator case from the case through the opposite SCR2 and back through the other yellow wire to the other end of the alternator, it switches back and forth 14 times for every revolution of the motor.
While the battery is flat you can think of the two diodes and the two SCRs as the four diodes in a bridge rectifier, the SCRs are turned hard On.
As the battery Voltage rises transistors Q1 and Q2 switch turning Off the two SCRs for a cycle at a time, this happens about 13.9 Volts in relation to the regulator case.
The reference Voltage is tapped off the headlight circuit downstream of the headlight relay so its already about half a Volt lower than the battery with Voltage drop.
A couple of times on the road my VII Sport or 98 EV charging gave out and I was able to bypass the Voltage reference with a wire direct from the battery to the regulators Black wire, this turns the regulators two SCRs On. The overall charging Voltage is a little lower because it no longer benefits from the Voltage drop in the headlight circuit.
As Wayne says the light on the dash is almost worthless (I show its wiring in light brown) it only works if the regulator is powered up at the black wire which BTW is connected to the headlight and the feed for the tachometer hence my asking if that was working.
I will stress again how important it is to ground this regulator properly, the Voltage regulation depends on it, don't rely on the little bitty wire the factory have going all the way back through the loom put a decent size wire  e.g. #16 between the regulator case and an engine bolt a few inches away.

[Wayne Orwig]

Are you telling me that you used a Harley Davidson or other Voltage Regulator in a 2001 California setup? To replace the Ducati Regulator?

The two wire Harley PM regulator can be used if you want to cut up the plugs. I like the EuroMoto replacements that don't need splicing and such.

Don't forget to check what Kiwi Roy mentions. He has literally been inside those regulators.

[Kiwi_Roy]

https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/category-s/1846.htm
If you need a regulator, I’ve used on of these and have had good luck with them

Note how this regulator John recommended doesn't have a black wire to plug into the headlight circuit, its direct connected to the battery 
I used a similar one from Electrosport to get around the flaky Voltage reference on my 2001 VII Sport.
https://www.electrosport.com/collections/regulator-rectifiers/products/esr510-regulator-rectifier-ducati-1-phase-charge-light-output
Note also, neither of these regulators need to be grounded, they have a dedicated wire for each connection.
DONT go for a plug-in replacement, upgrade to Direct connect.

[JoeB]

FWIW
"Fault Finding Diagram ELECTROSPORT for Charging Systems"
https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/kb_results.asp?ID=121
Has helped me a time or two.

[Don G]

I couldnt find the part # for this Drag Specialties regulator for the HD, but here is a picture of it in action:

  DonG

[vf84pc]

My EVT bike running pulled the leads from the battery 13.5 Vdc  ( This is what we call with no load)
Do the simple stuff check all the connections clean them with contact cleaner and emery paper (gently) Do the same for the ground connections. However my expirience with automobiles that have that have the same issue tells me:
1. The battery is not charging fully when the vehicle is running.
2. Their is a short in the rectifier/ regulator circuit and the battery is dischargeing when the vehicle is off.
Both point the the rectifier unit. If you know somebody with a California you can swap the units. Where are you located?

[Don G]

I found the P/N for that HD regulator. HD# 74519-88, Drag Specialties# 313020. Fits 89-99 HD Big Twins with 32 amp alternator.  DonG

[old strombolone]

Just want to let you folks know that I sorted-out the EV Charging Issue.
The Battery was not the culprit: Full load test on battery at dealer (Interstate Battery) confirmed this. The Battery is A-OK/Good!

The Alternator was disconnected, engine started and voltage readings taken from Alternator. Though they didn't match what was in the manual, the voltages were good (actually higher than what the manual said).

The Voltage Regulator chosen was the stock one from Harpers...yeah, maybe more expensive, but I didn't want to dick-around with a different brand. As it was, removing the leads on the old one was easy....but attaching the new leads wasn't. The damn wires on the bike harness were just too short. So I had to cut/solder-in longer leads...took me a little time, but it made hooking up the voltage regulator easier. Seems to me the harness was wired-up before the engine was installed. (right??) Anyway, checked the battery and I'm getting charging voltage now.

The ground lead was cleaned up in a significant way, and penetrox flat-surface electrical joint compount was added to ensure a good ground. It seems to me that I should add a braided ground strap for that connection.

Thank You to all the guys that helped me out with this. I've been riding the bike for a few weeks now and enjoying very much.

The bike, is old, still strong, leaks a little...Like the Owner... :)

Regards from Massachusetts USA

[John A]

Great, thanks for letting us know