V100 Mandello Merged Threadfest

[Guzzi Gal]

Andy Greaser likes it! Read the 2023 Moto Guzzi V100 Mandello first ride review here:

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2023-moto-guzzi-v100-mandello-first-ride-motorcycle-review?utm_source=instagram-story&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=boosted-posts%7Ctpfn-content-organic&utm_content=bike-review-article-organic&utm_term=2023-moto-guzzi-v100-mandello-first-ride-motorcycle-review-102422-%7Ctpfn-organic

[blackcat]

Very good review.

[rschrum]

2023 Ducati V twin 955cc, 155hp. $17700.00

[coast range rider]

2023 Ducati V twin 955cc, 155hp. $17700.00

That's a lot more hp for an extra $200.

[blu guzz]

It's a lot more if you like the bike.  My son had a Multistrada that I could not ride for over 10 minutes.  The power was twitchy, riding position cramped compared to the V85 and the seat kept sliding my nutz into the tank.  150 on it vs. 80 hp did matter on that bike.  Of course, there was also the chain.
 

[Huzo]

I honestly think the majority of riders these days, rate outright power a lot further down the list than they once would have.
I know I do.
If someone told me they could inject a 25% performance boost into either of my road Guzzi’s free of charge, I’d not be slightly tempted.
I actually like the (relatively) sane power of my Norge, it tells you how it’s “feeling” when it begins to work. My mate’s Kawasaki ZX14R just heartlessly crushes everything under it’s wheels, you don’t feel “involved” as much.
Just look at what a big proportion of bike buyers opt for, Enfields, V7’s and the like.
Certainly in Australia, you cannot even approach the idea of exploring your bike’s capabilities, even if you are good enough.
You WILL lose your licence, then you WILL lose your job, then you WON’T go to Europe. Personally if I had a Hyabusa, it would crap me off to know that I was riding around at highway speeds on 10% throttle..

[blackcat]

2023 Ducati V twin 955cc, 155hp. $17700.00

Which bike are you referencing?

https://www.ducati.com/us/en/home/ducati-world-premiere?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=dwp2023&gclid=Cj0KCQjwkt6aBhDKARIsAAyeLJ2JARJCoGpRlAo9BysXD-BHHqgBF9N_IB6SKP4SfcKkyuKwMgVPdWgaAoeYEALw_wcB

[lucian]

I honestly think the majority of riders these days, rate outright power a lot further down the list than they once would have.
I know I do.
If someone told me they could inject a 25% performance boost into either of my road Guzzi’s free of charge, I’d not be slightly tempted.
I actually like the (relatively) sane power of my Norge, it tells you how it’s “feeling” when it begins to work. My mate’s Kawasaki ZX14R just heartlessly crushes everything under it’s wheels, you don’t feel “involved” as much.
Just look at what a big proportion of bike buyers opt for, Enfields, V7’s and the like.
Certainly in Australia, you cannot even approach the idea of exploring your bike’s capabilities, even if you are good enough.
You WILL lose your licence, then you WILL lose your job, then you WON’T go to Europe. Personally if I had a Hyabusa, it would crap me off to know that I was riding around at highway speeds on 10% throttle..

Truer words have never been spoken. As much as I  am in awe of my Tuono's  performance capabilities,  There is no way to utilize the majority of them legally on the street. It eats fuel and tires for breakfast and is about as comfortable for me as a go cart. It was an impulse purchase that I do not entirely regret but, it will soon be replaced by a more road developed option. The technological aspects of the Tuono I do enjoy and find relevant, ABS , traction control, quick shifter ect, and the handling is second to none. I think the v100 will be a perfect fusion of all the above without the unusable ,insane H.P. of the Aprilia and with much better rider comfort and ease of maintenance. I'm sure if the performance level is similar to the 8v there will be plenty on tap for ninety percent of street riders. I think this new platform will be a big hit for M.G. as was the 85tt. It will certainly lead to some interesting variants in the future . If nothing else , hats off to Piaggio for the investments they have put into the M.G. brand.

[Huzo]

Truer words have never been spoken. As much as I  am in awe of my Tuono's  performance capabilities,  There is no way to utilize the majority of them legally on the street. It eats fuel and tires for breakfast and is about as comfortable for me as a go cart. It was an impulse purchase that I do not entirely regret but, it will soon be replaced by a more road developed option. The technological aspects of the Tuono I do enjoy and find relevant, ABS , traction control, quick shifter ect, and the handling is second to none. I think the v100 will be a perfect fusion of all the above without the unusable ,insane H.P. of the Aprilia and with much better rider comfort and ease of maintenance. I'm sure if the performance level is similar to the 8v there will be plenty on tap for ninety percent of street riders. I think this new platform will be a big hit for M.G. as was the 85tt. It will certainly lead to some interesting variants in the future . If nothing else , hats off to Piaggio for the investments they have put into the M.G. brand.

Yes Lucian.
I know that a lot of the reason that I have bought GSXR 1100’s GPZ 900 R’s and those sort of things, is that my mates were on similar and the small man syndrome in me did not want to be outdone. Now when you turn up to a ride on your Enfield 650, V85TT, BMW800 GS et al, you’ll more likely in similar company than different and if that has a bearing conscious or otherwise, you’ll be level with your peers.
These days if a borderline overweight 64 ish year old guy with a verandah over the tool shed, rocks up on a Desmosedici Ducati, he looks like Rupert Murdoch in a Ferrari and a 22 year old supermodel “friend..” 
You’ll just look like a tosser and will have that fact reinforced by your mates.
The race rep thing is over.

[Dukedesmo]

UK bike magazine MCN like it; https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/moto-guzzi/v100-mandello/2023/

[blu guzz]

Love that review. The bike sounds like a home run.  I had convinced myself that my V85 is all I need.  Now, I am not sure I want to test ride this bike.  I had convinced myself that my Cali Custom (Blu Guzz) was all I needed and then the demo truck with the V85's came to town.  I never should have ridden the V85 either. Am I a bike whore?

[kingoffleece]

This may help, or not.

I tell my bride many bikes, one wife, and not the other way around.  Be sure to get your head out of the contact  zone......

[twowheeladdict]

So many review videos coming out.  I'm glad Moto Guzzi invited respected moto-journalists instead of youtube influencers to the demo rides.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqcbgFbVmXc

Looks like everyone is giving the quick shifter negatives.  What is the deal with quick shifters anyways?  Is it because no one learns to drive a stick anymore so they also don't want to deal with a clutch on a motorcycle? 

The more videos I watch the more it grows on me.  But then I have to consider if I am going to spend over $17k on a motorcycle, what are my choices and what do I want to do with said motorcycle.

Some of the bikes I would consider, and would have to research how they stack up:

Triumph Scrambler XE
Ducati Multistrada V2
Kawasaki Versys 1000 LT
BMW R1250R
Triumph Tiger 900 GT

Of course the BMW is the only one with shaft drive.

[LowRyter]

2023 Ducati V twin 955cc, 155hp. $17700.00

apples and oranges.  the V2 is a total performance bike that doesn't come on the cam until 8k rpms and peaks at 10.5k.  It's in the V2 and also Street Fighter.

The more applicable engine is the Duc 937 cc engine,  good for 113hp and peaks at 9k, solid torque at 3k, gets on the cam at 6k.  This one is in the Multi, SS, Monster and X bike.

[blackcat]

apples and oranges.  the V2 is a total performance bike that doesn't come on the cam until 8k rpms and peaks at 10.5k.  It's in the V2 and also Street Fighter.

The more applicable engine is the Duc 937 cc engine,  good for 113hp and peaks at 9k, solid torque at 3k, gets on the cam at 6k.  This one is in the Multi, SS, Monster and X bike.

Ducati has extended the valve adjustment period to 15,000 miles for that engine but is it safe to say that unless you adjust them yourself the cost is in the $800 to $1,100 dollar range at the dealer?  If we take $1,000 as the average, by the time you get to 60,000 miles you will have invested an additional $4,000 into the cost of a depreciating bike. Yes, I understand you can skip an adjustment period but.......

[LowRyter]

Ducati has extended the valve adjustment period to 15,000 miles for that engine but is it safe to say that unless you adjust them yourself the cost is in the $800 to $1,100 dollar range at the dealer?  If we take $1,000 as the average, by the time you get to 60,000 miles you will have invested an additional $4,000 into the cost of a depreciating bike. Yes, I understand you can skip an adjustment period but.......

the 937 has an 18k Desmo interval.  I have a mechanic that did the entire 18k service for about $600 labor (valve adj, belt replacement, fork oil, and several other checks).  The labor was about the same for 4 cyl sportsbike.  The parts were another issue, I should've gotten the belts & spark plugs online rather than purchasing from the local dealer, and I would've save $120 on parts- lesson learned.     

[coast range rider]

the 937 has an 18k Desmo interval.  I have a mechanic that did the entire 18k service for about $600 labor (valve adj, belt replacement, fork oil, and several other checks).  The labor was about the same for 4 cyl sportsbike.  The parts were another issue, I should've gotten the belts & spark plugs online rather than purchasing from the local dealer, and I would've save $120 on parts- lesson learned.   

In Socal the Desmo service is over $2000 at the Ducati dealer without the fork oil service.
Is there a decent motel near your mechanic's shop? I would save a bundle even after subtracting for gas and 3 motel nights.

[bad Chad]

So many review videos coming out.  I'm glad Moto Guzzi invited respected moto-journalists instead of youtube influencers to the demo rides.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqcbgFbVmXc

Looks like everyone is giving the quick shifter negatives.  What is the deal with quick shifters anyway?  Is it because no one learns to drive a stick anymore so they also don't want to deal with a clutch on a motorcycle? 

The more videos I watch the more it grows on me.  But then I have to consider if I am going to spend over $17k on a motorcycle, what are my choices and what do I want to do with said motorcycle.

Some of the bikes I would consider, and would have to research how they stack up:

Triumph Scrambler XE
Ducati Multistrada V2
Kawasaki Verses 1000 LT
BMW R1250R
Triumph Tiger 900 GT

Of course the BMW is the only one with shaft drive.

As I understand it, a quick shifter is just that, it allows for considerably faster shifting.  Instead of depending on a daft rider to pull in the clutch, figure out how to shift, and time it correctly, the computer blips the motor as soon as input from the foot shift is received.   I have never used one, and I have doubts as to its real world advantages.  For racing, certainly, you won't find a real racer running without one (except for vintage stuff).   

I do however think in might be fun to just seamlessly snick the shifter in to gear without all the, frivolous  farting around with the left hand.  That said, it's far from the top of my list of must haves.

[Huzo]

As I understand it, a quick shifter is just that, it allows for considerably faster shifting.  Instead of depending on a daft rider to pull in the clutch, figure out how to shift, and time it correctly, the computer blips the motor as soon as input from the foot shift is received.   I have never used one, and I have doubts as to its real world advantages.  For racing, certainly, you won't find a real racer running without one (except for vintage stuff).   

I do however think in might be fun to just seamlessly snick the shifter in to gear without all the, frivolous  farting around with the left hand.  That said, it's far from the top of my list of must haves.

I still maintain that asking the flywheel and rotating engine mass, to alter it’s rpm by 500 in 0.2 seconds is going to have cumulative effects over millions of changes.
It cannot be at the appropriate rpm for the next gear at the moment the dogs engage.
The GEARS are, because they’re constant mesh.

But can someone tell me if the new gear requires say 3,500 rpm at the flywheel and 0.2 seconds before it was at 4,000 rpm, what has slowed the rotating mass to the new rpm in that interval of time.

Please…..
NO anecdotal evidence..
NO half baked analogies..
NO references to how you can shift clutchlessly and your mate used to have a Norton…(or something).
In the time it takes to adopt the new rpm at the flywheel for the next gear, the engine has been forced to dump a LOT of rotational momentum.
Now before you tell me about the cushioning in the drive train, I’ll ask you this..
If you select say, 3rd gear on your V100 on the centrestand or workshop stand.
Rotate the rear wheel hard in one direction until it’s up against compression, then rotate it in the opposite direction up against the compression, you will get what…..20 degrees of rotation ?
Now at 80 kph your rear wheel will be spinning at say…400 rpm ?…(I have not done the math but you can).
With numbers like that, your 20 degrees of slack time rotation where the engine has to drop 500 rpm is what…0.001 seconds..?
Point is.
From hard up against the shock absorbers in the gearbox in one direction to the same condition a few milliseconds later, your expensive and much anticipated (rightfully) V100, has no chance of avoiding a metal to metal collision of some mechanical unsympathetic nature inside the drivetrain.
Newton knew that energy is not lost, it is converted and his law of conservation of angular momentum says that the flywheel has less energy after the change than before due to the lower rpm.
The shock is delivered down the drivetrain hundreds of thousands of times
Give us all a report on your quick shift gearbox at 200,000+ kilometres. All the time you “didn’t waste worrying about having to use the clutch….”
Will be handy when you’re rebuilding the innards...

Just sayin….

[LowRyter]

In Socal the Desmo service is over $2000 at the Ducati dealer without the fork oil service.
Is there a decent motel near your mechanic's shop? I would save a bundle even after subtracting for gas and 3 motel nights.

Each Ducati model and engine have their own costs and level of effort.  The newer bikes are quite a bit easier and cheaper to maintain, depending on the model.

Before I purchased my bike, I discussed costs with a local independent tech.  He filled me into the book rate and the like.  For my bike it was essentially the same amount of hours as 4 cyl shim bike.   My SS 937 has been stone reliable for 25k miles (knock wood) except for broken clutch cable, likely a result of falling off the rear stand and damaging the clutch lever.

[lucian]

A quick shifter will not work without a slipper clutch for all the reasons Pete describes. That said the quick upshifter on my Tuono works flawlessly as long as you keep a steady throttle and let the computer do its job. A split second ignition cut is all that is required to unload the gearbox under acceleration and allow the transition to the next gear. Engine rpm is dictated by the driveline load requirement not the other way around.

[Huzo]

Engine rpm is dictated by the driveline load requirement not the other way around.

Actually, engine rpm is a function of rear wheel rpm x the applied ratio.
Cutting the ignition will certainly unload the driveline allowing for that “slack” time as the new ratio is selected, but it does NOT help the rpm to adopt the new figure in the minuscule time available.
A slipper clutch (if fitted) is the thing that will save the internals from exiting early, but it’s still a lot of energy to dissipate (up change) or impart (downchange) to the rotating mass.
The load is the same, it’s just in the opposite rotational direction.
Still though.
I will not be proven correct or incorrect for a long time until V100’s have 200,000 k and 15 years on them. By then I’ll be 80 years old and too decrepit to cheer, or too much of a curmudgeon to apologise…

[Huzo]

I had convinced myself that my V85 is all I need.

It is, but no one “needs” a bike.
As for the other thing
For a bike, you pay for it to arrive…
For the other, you pay them to leave…

That’s the sad bit.

[jrt]

i find the most difficult thing about a quick shifter is to remind myself NOT to change the gas or use the clutch.  It is very deeply programmed muscle memory at this point.  Downshifting is ok...upshifting is where I start mixing it up.

[bad Chad]

Quick shifters have been around for at least a decade, probably much longer, it is not cutting-edge tech.

[lazlokovacs]

I still maintain that asking the flywheel and rotating engine mass, to alter it’s rpm by 500 in 0.2 seconds is going to have cumulative effects over millions of changes.
It cannot be at the appropriate rpm for the next gear at the moment the dogs engage.
The GEARS are, because they’re constant mesh.

But can someone tell me if the new gear requires say 3,500 rpm at the flywheel and 0.2 seconds before it was at 4,000 rpm, what has slowed the rotating mass to the new rpm in that interval of time.

Please…..
NO anecdotal evidence..
NO half baked analogies..
NO references to how you can shift clutchlessly and your mate used to have a Norton…(or something).
In the time it takes to adopt the new rpm at the flywheel for the next gear, the engine has been forced to dump a LOT of rotational momentum.
Now before you tell me about the cushioning in the drive train, I’ll ask you this..
If you select say, 3rd gear on your V100 on the centrestand or workshop stand.
Rotate the rear wheel hard in one direction until it’s up against compression, then rotate it in the opposite direction up against the compression, you will get what…..20 degrees of rotation ?
Now at 80 kph your rear wheel will be spinning at say…400 rpm ?…(I have not done the math but you can).
With numbers like that, your 20 degrees of slack time rotation where the engine has to drop 500 rpm is what…0.001 seconds..?
Point is.
From hard up against the shock absorbers in the gearbox in one direction to the same condition a few milliseconds later, your expensive and much anticipated (rightfully) V100, has no chance of avoiding a metal to metal collision of some mechanical unsympathetic nature inside the drivetrain.
Newton knew that energy is not lost, it is converted and his law of conservation of angular momentum says that the flywheel has less energy after the change than before due to the lower rpm.
The shock is delivered down the drivetrain hundreds of thousands of times
Give us all a report on your quick shift gearbox at 200,000+ kilometres. All the time you “didn’t waste worrying about having to use the clutch….”
Will be handy when you’re rebuilding the innards...

Just sayin….

I appreciate your detailed and analytical way of looking at things and I'd love to read an answer to this too!

[flower_king001]

[Huzo]

I appreciate your detailed and analytical way of looking at things and I'd love to read an answer to this too!

For me the mention that it has a slipper clutch, removes some of the reservations I hold (held).
I still don’t like it though, there is the issue of slamming (or removing) 500 rpm into the system in the minuscule time available and the accelerations that are involved.
What for I suggest ?
What are the examples of conventional wisdom that support the adopting of this feature ? As a thought experiment, imagine a rotating mass equal to that of the mechanicals of the V100 spinning at 4,000 rpm and you have a brake with a 1 m lever attached.
You are asked to apply that brake and drop the whole thing from 4,000 to 3,500 in 0.2 seconds, that is the force that you are slamming down the drive train.
The splines, gears, universal joints and pinion feel it all…every single time…
If I get a V100, I will disconnect or just not use it.

[lucian]

The slipper clutch is only useful on clutch less downshifts,  It will prevent the shock loading you describe until the engine and rear tire forces line up. Up shifting under acceleration only requires a brief ignition cut to shift, no different than blipping the throttle to shift without clutching.  As long as the computer timing is spot on no damage to the driveling will result from using the quick shifter or auto blipper. The Tuono has a cassette gearbox so even if you lunch the shift dogs its an easy rebuild. I was in hopes the v100 has the same but I doubt it.

[rocker59]

The slipper clutch is only useful on clutch less downshifts, 

Well, it also helps reduce rear wheel hop under hard deceleration.

Slipper clutches have been in superbikes for decades.