I “Need” a Norge or an RT!

[inditx]

Yeah my wife laughed as well.

Anyway, talk to me please. I had a 2012 Norge and would like to know what an older Norge would feel like compared to the 2012.

Comparos to an RT?
Year differences? etc.

Thanks y’all
inditx

[Huzo]

Yeah my wife laughed as well.

Anyway, talk to me please. I had a 2012 Norge and would like to know what an older Norge would feel like compared to the 2012.

Comparos to an RT?
Year differences? etc.

Thanks y’all
inditx

2VPC ones are a dime a dozen.
Isn’t there one here for grabs ?
The older 2VPC Norge, does not have as much “rush” in the top half of the performance envelope. That could be because of the extra few thousand dollars you are carrying around everywhere, that you did not leave with the previous owner.
The 8V has that “WOW” factor above 5,000 rpm that is undeniable above 160 kph where we always ride...

Simple answer is...
Just ride one of each.

[blackcat]

2VPC ones are a dime a dozen.
Isn’t there one here for grabs ?
The older 2VPC Norge, does not have as much “rush” in the top half of the performance envelope. That could be because of the extra few thousand dollars you are carrying around everywhere, that you did not leave with the previous owner.
The 8V has that “WOW” factor above 5,000 rpm that is undeniable above 160 kph where we always ride...

Simple answer is...
Just ride one of each.

This.

And the gas mileage is better on the 2v bikes. 

[inditx]

2VPC ones are a dime a dozen.
Isn’t there one here for grabs ?
The older 2VPC Norge, does not have as much “rush” in the top half of the performance envelope. That could be because of the extra few thousand dollars you are carrying around everywhere, that you did not leave with the previous owner.
The 8V has that “WOW” factor above 5,000 rpm that is undeniable above 160 kph where we always ride...

Simple answer is...
Just ride one of each.

Yes indeed, wise words Huzo.
So down low does the 2v or 8v have the better grunt factor?
Of course I don’t ride that fast here, I’m an older guy. 

[Iron Cross Junction]

What "they" said.   

I'm of no special help WRT year differences on Norges (past first- & second-gen), much less RT's, but, I'll take a swing FWIW, subject to my disclaimer.   

I have a 2007 Norge with 85K or so miles.  Like it; lots.  Looked at RT's (and Duc ST's) before I pulled trigger.  Lots of growing pains -- all discussed at length here, but all were early on, were resolved, (and, with exception of OPS connector deficiencies) seem pretty much limited to those of us who were early adopters of early-runs of the 2007 model.  Mine has been for many years now a delight. 

As I age, two-up riding and playing Rubik's Cube in the Moto Grappa have become more challenging.  My semi-satisfactory fix for the former challenge is not to fill the fuel tank  more than halfway.  Given my bladder's shrinkage over the past few years  , that's not an issue as I am ready to stop to "stretch" short of the fuel light. 

I have ridden my brother's three Norges -- a '12 and two '14's  --quite a few miles.  He's deserted Guzzi for the Duc world.  No Guzzi ever stranded him (yes, that's rare  )), but his MultiStrata has multiple times, all electronic $tuff.

And, I also have an 8v Griso, so familiar with that engine on your first Norge.

Finally, I have ridden two RT's, albeit early models -- a c.2000 and a 2003.  I like those, but they did not, while just fine, make me grin as do all my Guzzis.  Simply not "visceral" enough for me.  If I were given a choice, however, of an RT of most any year v. a Norge and was told to slab it coast-to-coast and back, I have zero doubts: I'd go with the RT.  Why?  On my Norge, I am always trying to shift into 7th at slab speeds on long stretches without traffic.  The Norge's roll-on in 6th is fine, and, when not, dropping a gear will nearly always be enough.  But it could, IMO, use a 7th or an O/D for long, high-speed hauls.  That said, I almost never ride interstates or long straight stretches in the east.  I'll cage it if that's the menu.  On sinuous back roads, it's a joy.

Year differences in firstgen Norges?  This has been addressed here in more detail before, but the biggies I remember -- and the first from per$onal experience -- is avoid (or CLOSELY check) any '07 with low miles and a build date before c.March 2007.  Oil pumps disintegrated with predictable results, and some CARC's.  Both happened to mine; happily for me, under warranty.  Guzzi up-gunned the (pathetic '07 OEM) spring on the '08's rear shock. Depending on your "fighting weight," you made need to do more.  There are a few recalls, I think, e.g., headlight wiring.

My spousal supervisor -- also, thankfully, a Perfect Pillion & Polish Princess    -- has just wondered when I'll get to some rainy-day tasks I've been neglecting for as long as I could.  It's pouring outside, so you are spared more useless info.

Bill

[inditx]

Thanks Bill, great info!
Yeah more breaks than years past is the norm for me too.
 

[Huzo]

Yes indeed, wise words Huzo.
So down low does the 2v or 8v have the better grunt factor?
Of course I don’t ride that fast here, I’m an older guy. 

Look mate, I used to BS on interminably about how the 8V was only better above 5,000 which it demonstrably is.
However.
Christopher’s Sport is stronger EVERYWHERE, but under 4,000 it takes you 0.75 seconds longer to get to 100 kph on the older one.
My old tractor “feels” gruntier because of the silky pulsing nature of the delivery, the 8V makes acceleration “feel” easier. The white lines start to blur a bit sooner.
Because the Sport does the work “easier”, you feel more remote from the engine feedback...(It just doesn’t feel like it’s trying...)
You get a magnified example of the same thing on a Hyabusa.
Just squeeze the throttle without actually turning it and your visor gets pushed against your face.

I once used an analogy of three crowd controllers throwing you out of a club...
The 2VPC asks you gently would you finish your drink and I’ll walk with you to the door..
The Sport just grabs you by the scruff, partially lifts you off your feet and drags you with one hand out to the street.
The Hyabusa just knocks you out and you go home comatose in a taxi.

Which one makes you enjoy your night more..?

[inditx]

Hah!
Well seeing I’m too old for a Sport with that riding posture and for a Hayabusa too, I guess I’m being asked politely to leave and being walked out. 
inditx

[Huzo]

Hah!
Well seeing I’m too old for a Sport with that riding posture and for a Hayabusa too, I guess I’m being asked politely to leave and being walked out. 
inditx

Nah just stand near me.
They’ll throw the stupid loudmouth out....
You’ll be fine.

[tazio]

2VPC ones are a dime a dozen.
...
The 8V has that “WOW” factor above 5,000 rpm that is undeniable above 160 kph where we always ride...

Simple answer is...
Just ride one of each.

I hear what you're saying, though as you know, that "WOW" factor after 5,000 rpm comes in EVERY gear..
The added pleasure of the 8v can be found whenever you care to ramp up through the gears for a little arm stretch..
Options are always good
Whether they're needed, only you can tell.

[blackcat]

I remember test riding a brand new RT, believe it was a 2003 and the transmission was terrible. It kept banging into first gear at a traffic light and was hard to shift threw the gears but I was told they were all that way.  It really made a bad impression and my 81 shifted like butter as I road away from the dealer. 

That was the last BMW I have ever ridden and have been told they are better but they still BANG into first gear at a traffic light.

[Huzo]

I hear what you're saying, though as you know, that "WOW" factor after 5,000 rpm comes in EVERY gear..
The added pleasure of the 8v can be found whenever you care to ramp up through the gears for a little arm stretch..
Options are always good
Whether they're needed, only you can tell.

It will depend how much pleasure you assign to performance, that can vary enormously. The 2V feels like it’s working, the 8V is so strong it doesn’t feel like it’s any effort.
Is that a good thing ?
Probably yes, but I can only roll all the parameters into one and say that I would not swap my 200,000 k Norge for Christopher’s 10,000 k Sport.

One of the most unexpected benefits I found from riding my Honda 110 around Australia, was that the engine is constantly “telling” you how it’s feeling.
The 8V doesn’t “feel” anything, it just crushes everything..(comparatively speaking).

Our OP should just ride both for a decent test and he’ll know all he needs. There’s an 8V up for grabs at the moment on WG.

[Huzo]

I remember test riding a brand new RT, believe it was a 2003 and the transmission was terrible. It kept banging into first gear at a traffic light and was hard to shift threw the gears but I was told they were all that way.  It really made a bad impression and my 81 shifted like butter as I road away from the dealer. 

That was the last BMW I have ever ridden and have been told they are better but they still BANG into first gear at a traffic light.

Hold the clutch in for a few seconds to let it spin down and you won’t hear it.

[LowRyter]

The RT has almost full on Touring capabilities with radio, nav and the whole deal.  The liquid cooled bikes have more power and non conventional suspension.  The Norge is sport tourer and more stripped down.  Beemers can have high maintenance costs whereas Guzzi has few dealers perhaps some parts issues (maybe not).  Also beware of Norge with roller rocker issues. 

The really aren't directly comparable IMO.   An RT is almost sport version of a Gold Wing.

[Stratodisaster]

Can’t say anything about the 8v Norge but do have a 09 4v and compared to my 06 rt I actually prefer the Norge. I’m going from memory, which isn’t what it once was, but I think the Norge suits the way I ride better than the beemer. It doesn’t seem to be much difference in power but the guzzi is much more “fun” in the way the power comes on. I will say this the beemer is the most disappointing bike I’ve ever owned, not because it’s a bad bike,I just think my expectations were a little too high. There’s nothing magical or vastly superior about the bike as far as handling goes. Don’t know what year your looking at but the problems I had were with the esa, fuel pump control module,and fuel gauge.Another thing I didn’t care for is it has no,as in zero, fuses, none no where on the whole bike. There are work arounds to some of the problems,like fixing the fuel gauge with a piezoelectric charcoal lighter but a lot of things require a dealer or pretty pricey diagnostic paraphernalia.The one thing I could never figure out though is should I wave at people in bmw cars or just bikes!😊 my opinion is if they were the only two bikes in the world to choose from I’d choose the Guzzi.

[Scott of the Sahara]

this is a Moto Guzzi forum .....
When I was looking for a sport touring bike, I put my leg over quite a few models. I really wanted to like the BMW, but the seat height is far too tall for me. The Norge 2v fit me best. I have been riding it for 11 years now and I am not looking to upgrade or change bikes at all.

[usedtobefast]

I recently bought a 2011 R1200RT.  I did a bunch of reading/research and decided to look for a 2011-2013 R1200RT.  Seemed to be the most sorted/reliable year models. 

I did a basic service, got new tires on, and effortlessly crossed the US.  I would finish a 550 mile day and be fit as a fiddle.  On interstate sections, get the electric windshield in the right place, set cruise on 75 or 80 mph, dial up the heated seat/grips/jacket liner as desired and floated West.  At one point I was thinking I was getting bad gas mileage, oh wait, no, I just covered 230 miles is all.   Gas mileage seemed to be 48-52 mpg.

Mine has an aftermarket seat on it, Sargent I think, it is a bit tall (taller seat height than my V-Strom 1000), but that makes the seat-to-peg area more roomy, easy on the knees. 

For back road riding it was OK.  Mine is a non ESA model, and the suspension is more touring comfort than back road bandit ... so fully loaded and a dip and curve back road the suspension moves a bit too much and on a few roads I was wishing for my KTM 990 SMT, but I still enjoyed the ride on the BMW, just went a more sedate/sane pace.

And why a 2011-2013 model?
- 2014+ models are water cooled, seem to generate more heat, have to pull the cams to adjust valve clearance, went to stupid key fob thing, gained weight, I don't like the power characteristics as much, some had camshaft issues, but some year model they improved the airflow a bit (seems a wee bit better airflow when running windshield in lower positions)
- For pre '11, I don't remember all the year model break downs, but, some changing the rear dif fluid is a pain (pre 2008?), all have the stupid fuel strip that messes up (so wrong info for fuel level), seemed to be more final drive failures, power not as nice (to me, cam head models are the best power characteristics), be aware of "servo brake" years (some say they are fine with proper maint, some remove the servo set up when they fail, some spend $2500 to get them fixed), ESA I just adjusts the rear shock, ESA II adjusts front and rear shock (FYI)

And I will say, during the test rides of any R1200RT, my impression was just "hum, OK bike I guess", never was thrilled with any of them ... but after riding across the US on one the only thing is I do wish I got one with the ESA II option so I could switch the suspension between touring and sport mode.

Now, Norge vs. RT?  I've never ridden a Norge, so I be ignorant there.  But had an 8v Griso, and a ride on that bike is instant fun, giggle, excitement, a bit of fear ...  so I would assume the Norge would be more fun than an RT, but probably not as easy on the body for a long distance ride.  I would assume either could be set up well for back road focus or interstate focus ... the BMW ESA II gives you both easily. 

[Iron Cross Junction]

****

Now, Norge vs. RT?  I've never ridden a Norge, so I be ignorant there.  But had an 8v Griso, and a ride on that bike is instant fun, giggle, excitement, a bit of fear ...  so I would assume the Norge would be more fun than an RT, but probably not as easy on the body for a long distance ride.  I would assume either could be set up well for back road focus or interstate focus ... the BMW ESA II gives you both easily.

Congrats on the RT and ride across the US.

You are also right, IMO, about the Norge v. RT.

But you hit a Grand Slam -- it is, after all World Series time  -- with your description of an 8v Griso: "instant fun, giggle, excitement, a bit of fear." Perfect.   

I rarely think that I might not return from riding any of my other Guzzis.  I ponder that everytime I saddle up and mount my Griso.  November Sierra.   

Bill

[inditx]

I recently bought a 2011 R1200RT.  I did a bunch of reading/research and decided to look for a 2011-2013 R1200RT.  Seemed to be the most sorted/reliable year models. 

I did a basic service, got new tires on, and effortlessly crossed the US.  I would finish a 550 mile day and be fit as a fiddle.  On interstate sections, get the electric windshield in the right place, set cruise on 75 or 80 mph, dial up the heated seat/grips/jacket liner as desired and floated West.  At one point I was thinking I was getting bad gas mileage, oh wait, no, I just covered 230 miles is all.   Gas mileage seemed to be 48-52 mpg.

Mine has an aftermarket seat on it, Sargent I think, it is a bit tall (taller seat height than my V-Strom 1000), but that makes the seat-to-peg area more roomy, easy on the knees. 

For back road riding it was OK.  Mine is a non ESA model, and the suspension is more touring comfort than back road bandit ... so fully loaded and a dip and curve back road the suspension moves a bit too much and on a few roads I was wishing for my KTM 990 SMT, but I still enjoyed the ride on the BMW, just went a more sedate/sane pace.

And why a 2011-2013 model?
- 2014+ models are water cooled, seem to generate more heat, have to pull the cams to adjust valve clearance, went to stupid key fob thing, gained weight, I don't like the power characteristics as much, some had camshaft issues, but some year model they improved the airflow a bit (seems a wee bit better airflow when running windshield in lower positions)
- For pre '11, I don't remember all the year model break downs, but, some changing the rear dif fluid is a pain (pre 2008?), all have the stupid fuel strip that messes up (so wrong info for fuel level), seemed to be more final drive failures, power not as nice (to me, cam head models are the best power characteristics), be aware of "servo brake" years (some say they are fine with proper maint, some remove the servo set up when they fail, some spend $2500 to get them fixed), ESA I just adjusts the rear shock, ESA II adjusts front and rear shock (FYI)

And I will say, during the test rides of any R1200RT, my impression was just "hum, OK bike I guess", never was thrilled with any of them ... but after riding across the US on one the only thing is I do wish I got one with the ESA II option so I could switch the suspension between touring and sport mode.

Now, Norge vs. RT?  I've never ridden a Norge, so I be ignorant there.  But had an 8v Griso, and a ride on that bike is instant fun, giggle, excitement, a bit of fear ...  so I would assume the Norge would be more fun than an RT, but probably not as easy on the body for a long distance ride.  I would assume either could be set up well for back road focus or interstate focus ... the BMW ESA II gives you both easily.

Great info usedtobefast!
I guess an “R” would be closer to a Griso.
Thanks,
inditx

[LowRyter]

I recently bought a 2011 R1200RT.  I did a bunch of reading/research and decided to look for a 2011-2013 R1200RT.  Seemed to be the most sorted/reliable year models. 

I did a basic service, got new tires on, and effortlessly crossed the US.  I would finish a 550 mile day and be fit as a fiddle.  On interstate sections, get the electric windshield in the right place, set cruise on 75 or 80 mph, dial up the heated seat/grips/jacket liner as desired and floated West.  At one point I was thinking I was getting bad gas mileage, oh wait, no, I just covered 230 miles is all.   Gas mileage seemed to be 48-52 mpg.

Mine has an aftermarket seat on it, Sargent I think, it is a bit tall (taller seat height than my V-Strom 1000), but that makes the seat-to-peg area more roomy, easy on the knees. 

For back road riding it was OK.  Mine is a non ESA model, and the suspension is more touring comfort than back road bandit ... so fully loaded and a dip and curve back road the suspension moves a bit too much and on a few roads I was wishing for my KTM 990 SMT, but I still enjoyed the ride on the BMW, just went a more sedate/sane pace.

And why a 2011-2013 model?
- 2014+ models are water cooled, seem to generate more heat, have to pull the cams to adjust valve clearance, went to stupid key fob thing, gained weight, I don't like the power characteristics as much, some had camshaft issues, but some year model they improved the airflow a bit (seems a wee bit better airflow when running windshield in lower positions)
- For pre '11, I don't remember all the year model break downs, but, some changing the rear dif fluid is a pain (pre 2008?), all have the stupid fuel strip that messes up (so wrong info for fuel level), seemed to be more final drive failures, power not as nice (to me, cam head models are the best power characteristics), be aware of "servo brake" years (some say they are fine with proper maint, some remove the servo set up when they fail, some spend $2500 to get them fixed), ESA I just adjusts the rear shock, ESA II adjusts front and rear shock (FYI)

And I will say, during the test rides of any R1200RT, my impression was just "hum, OK bike I guess", never was thrilled with any of them ... but after riding across the US on one the only thing is I do wish I got one with the ESA II option so I could switch the suspension between touring and sport mode.

Now, Norge vs. RT?  I've never ridden a Norge, so I be ignorant there.  But had an 8v Griso, and a ride on that bike is instant fun, giggle, excitement, a bit of fear ...  so I would assume the Norge would be more fun than an RT, but probably not as easy on the body for a long distance ride.  I would assume either could be set up well for back road focus or interstate focus ... the BMW ESA II gives you both easily.

Agree with what you say.  But I will add that the 2014+ put the Beemers into a whole new level for riding excitement and performance.  Those bikes have motor that gets down the road and feels like fun- unlike earlier Beemers.   Those bikes can also be ridden by guys that aren't 6'3" and have 34 in inseam, so if you're 5'10" like me, not a problem.

But the downside is maintenance intervals of 12k miles and valve shims, so there's that and all the other BMW $tuff.   

The Norge isn't in the same class.  It doesn't have all the RT gingerbread. 

And there's the FJR.   

[inditx]

Agree with what you say.  But I will add that the 2014+ put the Beemers into a whole new level for riding excitement and performance.  Those bikes have motor that gets down the road and feels like fun- unlike earlier Beemers.   Those bikes can also be ridden by guys that aren't 6'3" and have 34 in inseam, so if you're 5'10" like me, not a problem.

But the downside is maintenance intervals of 12k miles and valve shims, so there's that and all the other BMW $tuff.   

The Norge isn't in the same class.  It doesn't have all the RT gingerbread. 

And there's the FJR.   

Tell me more about the FJR LowRyter.
inditx

[JJ]

QUOTE: I “Need” a Norge or an RT!

...or maybe what you REALLY need is....."FRANKEN-SWINE!!"

 

[LowRyter]

Tell me more about the FJR LowRyter.
inditx

It's a forbidden subject.  If I ever wanted one I would have to eat all kinds of crow and Darren would laugh at me.  So I just can't go there and give Darren any satisfaction of being right.   

 

[JJ]

It's a forbidden subject.  If I ever wanted one I would have to eat all kinds of crow and Darren would laugh at me.  So I just can't go there and give Darren any satisfaction of being right.   

 

[inditx]

It's a forbidden subject.  If I ever wanted one I would have to eat all kinds of crow and Darren would laugh at me.  So I just can't go there and give Darren any satisfaction of being right.   

 

Hah!
PM me if you wish......

[MarkPell]

Having only ridden a previously owned '96  R11R and my LM III, I can't make any comparison to any RT's or Norge's
but I think the FJR's are a fabulous sport tourer with a perfect combo of sportiness and long range comfort.
Of all of the bikes I've owned, my wife likes the FJR the best and for flat out high speed hijinx, I love it.
1st gen FJR's (through 05) had engine heat to rider issues but my gen 2 (06-12) is not bad.
I assume gen 3's even better? Really bullet proof, reliable design.

Of course big difference with FJR and Norge/RT is inline 4 engine. While I still gravitate toward twins for the engine feel, there
really is no comparison to overall performance of an inline 4.

Like others have said, you really have to ride em and see which grabs you.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Pffffft. Beemers suck.
Chuck, Deacon
Church of Guzzi
 

[inditx]

Pffffft. Beemers suck.
Chuck, Deacon
Church of Guzzi
 

play nice now Chuck