FortNine Videos

[Kiwi_Roy]

A few good videos from Ryan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRNfyz1Cgvg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeuXShFIgyc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOwxxsPaogY

[Alfetta]

Fortnine puts out some top quality vids.

I like the first one in your list, as he makes it clear that FI is only better due to crap fuel (if that's what you buy). I just wish that he held up every thing required for FI, not just the injector...  In his other hand was the carby...all that you need..


This one is my personal fav...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlbkAhCNvik

truly disappointed with the original oil video, sure glad i've replaced my Italian bike lube !!!

[RHAT]

I like his videos 

[lucky phil]

I really like his stuff but he's left out 2 massive points that make EFI a slam dunk necessity in the modern world. Bit disappointed in him with that.

Ciao

[moto-uno]

  Are the two points ( as regards Moto-Guzzi ) the poor throttle response and lack of choices in FI adjustments ?  . Peter

[bad Chad]

No doubt!   He left out two massive points, but they aren’t massive enough for you to at least mention them??

The guy does a better job than any other m/c blogger on the net that I know of.    I enjoy his productions, and hope he keeps at it.

[egschade]

This is one of my favorites - kinda two videos in one: his review of the Triumph and the faux 'promo' video he was allegedly shooting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsLmQHgsIro

[Huzo]

This is one of my favorites - kinda two videos in one: his review of the Triumph and the faux 'promo' video he was allegedly shooting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsLmQHgsIro

The guy sounds like Troy Mc Clure on the Simpsons.
I’ve seen stuff from him that’s ok, but this was a bit lame. Hanging your helmet on the mirror is crass, so is taking off with it undone.
His Rossi impression sounded more like the French President.
But I’ve seen worse...(somewhere).

[lucky phil]

I really like his stuff but he's left out 2 massive points that make EFI a slam dunk necessity in the modern world. Bit disappointed in him with that.

Ciao

One is emissions and the other is cost. There is also packaging, and performance. The major thing that launched Ducati into the modern world and made it's twin what it became in performance terms was EFI. There was no way back in the mid 80's you could get the 851 series bikes to make the power they did and maintain driveability without EFI. Nobody made a 50mm carb that would do that at the time. The twins went onto ultimately use 75mm tb's. Making a carburettor that will provide the emission, driveability and performance requirements is possible but not viable. You can make a carb do that but it becomes a horrendously large and complex device with a myriad of complex tiny ports and external controls. An efi throttle body by comparison is a compact and simple device and can be packaged accordingly. It can provide a large bore size to satisfy the demands of high rpm and capacity while maintaining the driveability and emission requirements. Getting a modern carb to do that would be a nightmare as witnessed by late 80's and early 90's car carbs. Costs, the hardware costs for the manufacturer on a modern EFI system is very low. A simple to manufacture, compact throttle body with off the shelf sensors and ECU is cheap and easy for the manufacturer. Forget about the silly money you pay for EFI OEM spares, that's the la la land of spare parts price markups and regional profit making. The sensors and ecu components are way cheaper to the manufacturer than a complex bulky bespoke carb is to have made.
I wouldn't trade EFI for carbs at any cost. I can remember pulling carbs at the track for jetting on GSXR750's and it was a PITA even on a superbike without an airbox. Same with jetting my mid 90's speed triple Triumph, even my racing Ducati TT600 was way more fiddly than a laptop and a cable. Now if I want to make a change to anything mapping wise in the engine it's literally a 2 min job on the laptop and the toolbox stays shut. Clean simple convenient safe and the software is free. It's so simple to do even someone like me who's computer skills I'd rate as a 2 out of ten can do it. Look at my car, turbocharged with efi of course. You buy a hand held device for $600 that mounts on the dash or just sits on the seat and lets you see everything the engine is doing and load custom maps one of which comes with the unit. You want a custom map because you've changed the exhaust, cams, whatever, simple. Hook it up in the car off the OBD2 port and log some data. Go to a quite piece of road and do a couple of full throttle pulls up to a legal speed limit download the data and email it to any one of hundreds of professional tuners that for a few hundred bucks will create a custom tune for your car and email it back to you and also for the money give you 2 or 3 revisions, so simply repeat the process if you make another change or want to use different fuel etc. I'm 63 and have rudimentary computer skills and think is a doddle. If I can do it and get comfortable with it then anyone can.

Ciao
       

[bad Chad]

This is an example of what goes wrong here.   The op simply posted a couple links to very entertaining m/c videos, which is nice because it’s not like there are tons of such floating about. 

But then a number of folks just start in, ripping and tearing.   

Bums me out a bit, as this kind of bs was far less until the last couple years.

[lucky phil]

This is an example of what goes wrong here.   The op simply posted a couple links to very entertaining m/c videos, which is nice because it’s not like there are tons of such floating about. 

But then a number of folks just start in, ripping and tearing.   

Bums me out a bit, as this kind of bs was far less until the last couple years.

Why? If you read my first post you will find I said I liked his stuff. He's smart and entertaining and well worth viewing. Doesn't mean he's 100% right about everything though. I thought it worth pointing out some of the details he's omitted so people get a better understanding of things. My disappointment in his carb video was the fact he'd omitted stuff he surely was aware of.

 

[SIR REAL ED]

This is an example of what goes wrong here.   The op simply posted a couple links to very entertaining m/c videos, which is nice because it’s not like there are tons of such floating about. 

But then a number of folks just start in, ripping and tearing.   

Bums me out a bit, as this kind of bs was far less until the last couple years.

It might rub some people the wrong way, but I love it!!     

Posters going off track in threads provides so much more depth and content to the WG site than most other sites!!  Makes the WG site one of the most informative on the internet.

Especially, doubly, triply true for those of us who don't have the exact same bike with the exact same problem as the OP.  I know I have learned more from the off-track commentary than the specific subject matter replies.

Please keep the off-track personal experience and anecdotes coming WGer's.

Us ignorant people appreciate it!!!!  Always better to learn from others than from making mistakes!!!   

[SIR REAL ED]

One is emissions and the other is cost. There is also packaging, and performance. The major thing that launched Ducati into the modern world and made it's twin what it became in performance terms was EFI. There was no way back in the mid 80's you could get the 851 series bikes to make the power they did and maintain driveability without EFI. Nobody made a 50mm carb that would do that at the time. The twins went onto ultimately use 75mm tb's. Making a carburettor that will provide the emission, driveability and performance requirements is possible but not viable. You can make a carb do that but it becomes a horrendously large and complex device with a myriad of complex tiny ports and external controls. An efi throttle body by comparison is a compact and simple device and can be packaged accordingly. It can provide a large bore size to satisfy the demands of high rpm and capacity while maintaining the driveability and emission requirements. Getting a modern carb to do that would be a nightmare as witnessed by late 80's and early 90's car carbs. Costs, the hardware costs for the manufacturer on a modern EFI system is very low. A simple to manufacture, compact throttle body with off the shelf sensors and ECU is cheap and easy for the manufacturer. Forget about the silly money you pay for EFI OEM spares, that's the la la land of spare parts price markups and regional profit making. The sensors and ecu components are way cheaper to the manufacturer than a complex bulky bespoke carb is to have made.
I wouldn't trade EFI for carbs at any cost. I can remember pulling carbs at the track for jetting on GSXR750's and it was a PITA even on a superbike without an airbox. Same with jetting my mid 90's speed triple Triumph, even my racing Ducati TT600 was way more fiddly than a laptop and a cable. Now if I want to make a change to anything mapping wise in the engine it's literally a 2 min job on the laptop and the toolbox stays shut. Clean simple convenient safe and the software is free. It's so simple to do even someone like me who's computer skills I'd rate as a 2 out of ten can do it. Look at my car, turbocharged with efi of course. You buy a hand held device for $600 that mounts on the dash or just sits on the seat and lets you see everything the engine is doing and load custom maps one of which comes with the unit. You want a custom map because you've changed the exhaust, cams, whatever, simple. Hook it up in the car off the OBD2 port and log some data. Go to a quite piece of road and do a couple of full throttle pulls up to a legal speed limit download the data and email it to any one of hundreds of professional tuners that for a few hundred bucks will create a custom tune for your car and email it back to you and also for the money give you 2 or 3 revisions, so simply repeat the process if you make another change or want to use different fuel etc. I'm 63 and have rudimentary computer skills and think is a doddle. If I can do it and get comfortable with it then anyone can.

Ciao
       

Thanks for posting!!!  I'd like to hear more about the specific tools you are referring to!!!

[moto-uno]

 Loved your remarks "Phil" , but , I was making reference to , get ready for it , Moto-Guzzi . Our choices
really are very limited . I have a much modified Le Mans 2 and a 2018 Eldorado , the Le Mans' throttle response
and ease of tuning are why I still own and drive it 38 years later . The Eldo is fine , but as for instant throttle , no.
And it's got a "Beetle" map . The only other FI upgrade ( from another forum) is simply priced into the stratosphere
by my reckoning . And Yes , YMMV . Peter

[lucky phil]

Loved your remarks "Phil" , but , I was making reference to , get ready for it , Moto-Guzzi . Our choices
really are very limited . I have a much modified Le Mans 2 and a 2018 Eldorado , the Le Mans' throttle response
and ease of tuning are why I still own and drive it 38 years later . The Eldo is fine , but as for instant throttle , no.
And it's got a "Beetle" map . The only other FI upgrade ( from another forum) is simply priced into the stratosphere
by my reckoning . And Yes , YMMV . Peter

The Eldo not covered by Guzzidiag?

Ciao

[lucky phil]

Thanks for posting!!!  I'd like to hear more about the specific tools you are referring to!!!

I use the Tunerpro software for my V11/Daytona via the Guzzidiag XDF and reader/writer, very simple and easy to modify the maps. On my Ducati 1198 It runs a Microtech ecu and it's own software. For the car I use the cobb access port. Once again a very easy user plug and play interface.

https://www.cobbtuning.com/products/accessport/ford-focus-rs-accessport-v3

I'm currently working out the process for the Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 I have and Winols free software is probably the answer along with once again Tunerpro. Not sure yet I need to spend some time researching. The bike runs perfectly so it's not a priority.

Ciao

     

[moto-uno]

  I do have Guzzidiag , that's pretty much how I have the "Beetle map" .
Are you suggesting that map can be modified by me ?  Peter

[lucky phil]

  I do have Guzzidiag , that's pretty much how I have the "Beetle map" .
Are you suggesting that map can be modified by me ?  Peter

Yes via Tunerpro. You will already have the IAW7SM reader and writer so download the XDF file for the IAW7SM. Download Tunerpro free. Open Tunerpro and select the IAW7SM XDF file and then the .bin file for your original map ( best way is to copy the map you want to modify/play with and use that then you have the original safely tucked away if you want to re load it) or the beetle map and you will see all the mapping info in tunerpro. You can play around with fuel and ignition maps and save them to your computer. Then load the modified map via the Guzzidiag writer just the same as you loaded the Beetle map.     

Ciao

[moto-uno]

 ^ Thanks a lot , that should keep me busy for a few moments !  Peter

[moto-uno]

Hi Phil , as it turns out I just finished looking into the Tunerpro web site and of course the 1400's are not on their list .
They no longer support windows , but my phone was up to snuff and then I found the above , rats . Any other suggestions
as regards the 2018 Eldos' ?  Peter

[lucky phil]

Hi Phil , as it turns out I just finished looking into the Tunerpro web site and of course the 1400's are not on their list .
They no longer support windows , but my phone was up to snuff and then I found the above , rats . Any other suggestions
as regards the 2018 Eldos' ?  Peter

They don't need to be on Tunerpro list. You just download Tunerpro free and then the XDF file from Guzzidiag site for the Eldo. When you open tunerpro and select the xdf file you want to use you select the one you saved on your computer from the Guzzidiag site and the same for the .bin file as well. So the steps are
Download the Tunerpro free
Download the XDF file for the Eldo off the Guzzidiag site.
Open Tunerpro and select the xdf file for the eldo you downloaded from Guzzidiag
With tunerpro open and the XDF file loaded then select the .bin file you have for your bike. Then double click on the maps on the left of the Tunerpro page and you'll see this sort of thing. The main fuel map for a V11 Sport with the Titanium Muffler kit upgraded ECU in this case. Throttle angles along the top and rpm down the vertical and the Milliseconds of injector duration in the corresponding boxes. From here you can play around with the map and make adjustments, save the changes and then with Guzzidaig writer load it into your bikes ECU.





Have a read through this. Links here as well.

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=96957.0

Ciao
     

[moto-uno]

  Thanks again for the follow up Phil . This should wake up the sleepy thought processes  . Peter

[Guzzi Gal]

I've said it before, I love FortNine's videos. Yes, you may dislike the style, argue the science, or disagree with an opinion. However, you must admit they produce a quality YouTube channel that doesn't kowtow to the mighty marketing machine.