Man/bike down, soliciting safety ideas

[Anomaly]

One block after leaving my usual coffee shop, I entered an intersection on a green light. I always slow some at intersections. Pickup truck on my right sitting stopped at his red light. As I entered the intersection, he pulls out to make a right turn. 10 feet between us, oncoming traffic in the opposing lane limited my options... I put the bike down. Relatively minimal damage to the V7 Classic. A bit more damage to me but I'll be OK (sure glad I had gear on...). Anyway, the point of this post is to solicit safety ideas-- thinking of things like air horns, strobe lights, ... Ideas? Thoughts?

[Kiwi_Roy]

I'm sorry to hear about your accident.
I have a pair of 10 Watt spots on my V7, they sure make you more visible.

[OldMojo]

[Scout63]

LED spots are pretty easy to install and ratchet visibility way up.  Dual Fiamm or other horns are nice for when someone starts to pull out.  I’m so glad you are ok.

[not-fishing]

The Motor Patrol in my town use Clearwater (spendy) Lights with yellow lenses.  They really stand out even in the daytime.  Everyone knows it's a Motorcycle Cop by those lights and drive accordingly.

I purchased some little Denali's from Revzilla with yellow lenses, not installed yet.  I'm hoping oncoming traffic will give me a little extra attention.

Even in my little burg, traffic has gotten more troublesome but what do you expect with 30,000,000 more people in the state than 50 years ago?

Mark

[Old Jock]

For all my opinion's worth

In order of usefulness

Visibility, brighter headlight and aux LEDs

Improved brakes and/or knowing how much you can choke that right lever and still stay upright

Horns have very ocassionally helped me, but they require to be applied way early, to the point I could probably have stopped should the situation develop.

In a panic "OH SHIT" moment I never have had the time to use the horn and if I did I doubt the offending vehicle user would have time to process where the sound was coming from what it meant and take appropriate action

[chuck peterson]

Slow slower slowest

[bobrebos]

Sorry to hear of your accident.  Best wishes for a speedy recovery!  Be well.

[Huzo]

Sorry to hear he pulled out..
Shame his father didn’t...

[bad Chad]

Dead horse and all, but be ready for it.  Expect people to get pull out in front of you, cover the front brake lever, wiggle the bike in your lane to cause your light to move around.

[twowheeladdict]

Dead horse and all, but be ready for it.  Expect people to get pull out in front of you, cover the front brake lever, wiggle the bike in your lane to cause your light to move around.

 

In addition to what Chad posted, Hi-Viz Gear and Helmet help you be seen.  If you had a bike with ABS you would not have gone down, so practice heading for the edge of the lane as you lay on the horn. 

Practicing your swerve maneuvers and emergency braking in an empty parking lot goes a long way towards keeping control of your motorcycle. 

If you haven't already, pick up books by David Hough.  "Proficient Motorcycling", "More Proficient Motorcycling", and "Street Strategies"  will help put the hazards unique to motorcyclists into the recall areas of the brain so you will know them when you see them. 

[dirtiegirtie]

I've had good luck with headlight modulators. Low beam works normal. Put on the highbeam at night (there is a light sensor) and the highbeam works normal. Put the high beam on in the day time and it blinks quickly like a strobe. To be legal it has to flicker at or above a minimum frequency so it is not confused with an emergency vehicle.

I've had people pull over in front of me to let me pass (probably thinking I was a police officer or it's just annoying). I've had people pull over just to tell me, "Hey, I think there's something wrong with your headlight - It's blinking."

Is it annoying? Yes. Does it garner attention in the day? Yes.

On bikes that I don't have a headlight modulator installed, I typically try to ride with the high beam on during the day unless someone is in front of me.

[Kev m]

Lights, High-Viz, wiggle are all good techniques.

Modulators?!? - I'm of the opinion some idiots are just as likely to think you've flashed them to tell them to go ahead and turn. Why confuse the ones that are already dumb.

But none of that stuff REALLY matters when it comes down to it. Cover the brake, act like you are invisible, expect every moron to pull out, slow down at intersections, leave yourself an escape etc etc etc.


And just because you typed it, I HAVE TO ADDRESS the elephant in the room. In training decades ago I was told it is NEVER* the right idea to "put/lay the bike down" because even if you wind up hitting a solid target the amount of time spent upright on the brakes will scrub MORE speed than a slide so that your impact will be with lower momentum/energy than if you "put it down".


*Never use the word never, there's likely to be some freaky exception and I recognize that, but the chances that our mere mortal selves WILL recognize the exception in the heat of them moment is slim to almost none so the "best" course of action is to brake like a SOB as long as you possibly can pucker. Good luck in the future.

[skippy]

Sorry to hear he pulled out..
Shame his father didn’t...

Dang it Huzo! I spit my coffee out with that one.

Skippy

[Ncdan]

Glad you were not hurt any worse or the bike.

Over the years of investigating vehicular accidents I’ve came to the conclusion that there are accidents where no one actually did anything technically wrong and that sometimes accidents are actually are accidents and fall in the “it happens “ category.
Therefore here’s my take
- obey all traffic laws
- ride defensively
- remember the rule “what can happen will happen”
- ride in proper riding gear and keep your bike up to par
- be willing to accept the fact that we are engaged in a dangerous by nature choice of riding a motorcycle and be willing to accept the consequences.

[John A]

A loud horn can be handy but as has been pointed out it’s not the best use of the minimal time you have to avoid bad things. Anytime you can see the side of a car, you are in danger. I watch the top of the tire in relation to the fender, that is your first indication of movement and with practice you can judge it’s speed. Practice emergency braking and train your mind to always look for a way out. Try never to contact anything like a bumper, curb, light pole , culvert and so on. If you crash and slide you can usually walk away but if you hit something you can get seriously injured. Ride it out, like Kev said, the coefficient of friction is much greater between asphalt and rubber than it is between asphalt and steel & plastic. When someone says “I had to lay it down” it means “ I screwed up” . When something unusual happens, watch for trouble, often events start cascading. An example is : a car pulls out in front of me. No problem, I take action to avoid it but while I’m processing that, the car behind him pulls out as well. That’s when the bee stings you and so on.

[Trialsman]

As well as watching the tire for rotation, look at the driver's eyes.  If he is not making eye contact with you assume he/she will pull out.  If they are making eye contact then your odds are more like 50/50.  My primary rule of life ever since high school.....trust everyone, but cut the cards.

[berniebee]

And just because you typed it, I HAVE TO ADDRESS the elephant in the room. In training decades ago I was told it is NEVER* the right idea to "put/lay the bike down" because even if you wind up hitting a solid target the amount of time spent upright on the brakes will scrub MORE speed than a slide so that your impact will be with lower momentum/energy than if you "put it down".

Agreed, that's the first thing that struck me when I read the OP's comment. Also, remember that a motorcycle is narrow. With the pickup in the center of your lane, and the oncoming vehicles in the center of their lane, there is typically a four to six foot wide "hole" between them*. It depends on your speed and timing of the pickup's goof, but that's usually an option. Also, braking hard requires practice. You HAVE to do it regularly to stay in shape.

As for prevention, lighting is the only option that might have caught the trucker's eye. Unless you want to beep your horn before every intersection.

*For American and Canadian roads.

[Sye]

Maybe I'm a bit dim but I can't see this in my minds eye. May I ask you, we're you both heading in the same direction in different lanes? Was the car at the junction on your right and facing you waiting to turn right? I just can't figure out how you would both be occupying the same space.
Glad you came out of it relatively unscathed, sounds like a close call.

[berniebee]

[/quote]

Maybe I'm a bit dim but I can't see this in my minds eye. May I ask you, we're you both heading in the same direction in different lanes? Was the car at the junction on your right and facing you waiting to turn right? I just can't figure out how you would both be occupying the same space.
Glad you came out of it relatively unscathed, sounds like a close call.

Your confusion might have to do with the fact that Americans drive on the opposite side of the road vs Brits. The pickup truck was stopped at the intersection, on the road which crossed the Anomaly's path and to the right of Anomaly.  As Anomaly entered the intersection, the truck turned right on to Anomaly's road, occupying the same lane and now going in the same direction.

In Britain, the equivalent situation would be you approaching an intersection. A vehicle is stopped on the intersecting road, at your left. The driver doesn't see you and makes the left turn right in front of you, into your lane.  Hope that helps!

[Sye]

Your confusion might have to do with the fact that Americans drive on the opposite side of the road vs Brits. The pickup truck was stopped at the intersection, on the road which crossed the Anomaly's path and to the right of Anomaly.  As Anomaly entered the intersection, the truck turned right on to Anomaly's road, occupying the same lane and now going in the same direction.

In Britain, the equivalent situation would be you approaching an intersection. A vehicle is stopped on the intersecting road, at your left. The driver doesn't see you and makes the left turn right in front of you, into your lane.  Hope that helps!

Got it now, I've had a junction in mind, not an intersection. Thanks for clearing that up. 👌

[John A]

As well as watching the tire for rotation, look at the driver's eyes.  If he is not making eye contact with you assume he/she will pull out.  If they are making eye contact then your odds are more like 50/50.  My primary rule of life ever since high school.....trust everyone, but cut the cards.

I don’t agree, I’ve had em look me square in the eyes and still pull out. They don’t register you the same as if you were face to face. Besides that I don’t want a personal relationship between us so what matters to me is avoiding contact .

[Stretch]

I'm sorry to hear of your misfortune. Hope you heal up quickly.

wiggle the bike in your lane to cause your light to move around.

I do this as a matter of course in traffic, but this is the first time I've seen it in print.
Move around LATERALLY in your lane - THAT movement is MUCH easier for the human
eye to spot.

Mind you, I wasn't there. But as others have said, you're ALMOST always better off keeping
the bike upright. The bike will always slide further down the road on it's side than it will if
it's upright and the brakes are on. If both you AND the bike are sliding down the road, you'll
usually stop first. (If you high side and land in front of the bike, it will PUSH you down  the
road. One time doing that was enough for me, thanks.  )

As a famous general once said, it's not what you THINK the enemy will do -  you've got to prepare
for what the enemy is CAPABLE of doing.

And anticipation is SO much more important than reflexes - especially in traffic.

                                                                                 -Stretch

[Moparnut72]

I don’t agree, I’ve had em look me square in the eyes and still pull out. They don’t register you the same as if you were face to face. Besides that I don’t want a personal relationship between us so what matters to me is avoiding contact .

There an article somewhere on the internet in which a fighter pilot explains how this can happen. I forgotten the details but is a kind of blind spot.

Also forget the horn you are losing precious braking time and stopping distance. The horn is there to beep a friendly greeting to someone you know.
kk

[Stretch]

Moparnut, I think this is it:

https://www.portsmouthctc.org.uk/a-fighter-pilots-guide-to-surviving-on-the-roads/

Definitely worth a read.

                                                              -Stretch

[Huzo]

A bit of a reconstruction..
If you were 10’ from the guy when he (illegally) pulled out, yet your bike damage was minimal. Your speed as you applied the brakes was maybe what...15 mph ?
You further state that you slowed at the intersection.
From the outset I’ll say that the car driver was totally in the wrong, but here’s the thing as I see it.

The guy only has to be mentally wandering off a bit as he’s looking at you and as he’s processing what your intentions are, he’s forgotten about his red light. Now he sees a bike coming towards him that’s slowing from its established speed to 10 mph. If he’s not reading your mind correctly, he’ll be disposed towards thinking subliminally that you’re expecting him to move...
So he does.
If he’s either distracted, tired, frustrated, angry or impatient and he just wants to get going, the first inkling from you that you’re expecting or allowing him to go first, will result in him impulsively doing just that.
It’s a form of believing someone when they’re telling you what you want to hear.

Dangerous stuff.

Back in a previous life I read some stuff on the topic of information lock, it’s when your brain refuses to take on any more input, regardless of how important it may be.
There was a guy I knew who was at the end of a long cross country flight in a glider and was setting up a circuit into a field.
Tired and dehydrated, he had the aircraft on final after an altogether hazardously low final turn...
There was a screaming sound in his ears and by his own admission, he “couldn’t be bothered dealing with anything else...” 
Ten seconds later he came to a grinding halt in the paddock....The screaming sound was the landing gear warning, he still had the wheel up...

Point is..
In the situation our car driver was in, you don’t have to do ONE thing wrong to have an accident...
You have to do EVERYTHING right, not to.....
There’s a big difference..

[twowings]

White helmet 

[Anomaly]

Unfortunately I do not think there is anything to do other then hope and pray it doesn't happen. People run into police cars, fire trucks, tow trucks,  ambulances, construction vehicles that have lights flashing and/or sirens blaring everyday. Not sure a couple driving lights or a hi-vis vest really do anything other than make the rider feel like they are doing somethgin to help themselves.

We've all had that person at the intersection make eye contact with you, nod they head and smile and then pull right out in front of you

Thanks. And thanks to those of you who actually responded with suggestions about increasing one's visibility. That is what I hoped this thread would be about. Sigh, some of you just can't resist the hero/tough guy role-- sure YOU could have handled the situation, emerged unscathed, etc. The facts are, there WILL be a situation (think the t-bone scenario) where nothing can be  done. Except try to avoid getting into that situation in the first place which comes down to visibility (but yes, some people don't see firetrucks....). Twisted Throttle is just up the road from me and I talked to them about both air horns and strobe lights but to be clear, the thought here is not to try to use these once the situation has become critical, but rather in advance, say, before even entering an intersection. I had not thought (nor did the rep at Twisted Throttle who had such a setup on his personal bike) of the potential for a strobe light to be interpreted as a signal to another driver to go ahead-- but in fact it is standard practice around here to flash your high beams to tell another driver, say at a four-way, to go ahead. So thanks to whoever it was who pointed that downside out.

To those of you who have mounted extra lights (thinking now of non-strobe applications), how did you mount them?

[Kev m]

Unless I missed it, I didn't read anyone here as saying it might not have happened to us. It's simply a risk we all face.

I've definitely crashed because of my own mistakes.

And there's no guarantee against anyone else's.

We can only do the best we can

[Bulldog9]

Sorry you went down brother, heal up!

Growing up in the NYC environs, and living in all kinds of cities the last 40 years, I always add secondary Head and Tail lights for any bike I expect to ride in towns, cities, or with cross streets, and love the LED options. Swapped in a LED Head and Tail light bulb, and added extra front and rear lights. I also upgraded the horns to be louder.











But as others have said, I ride like I am invisible, and take no chances if at all possible, and EXPECT some maroon to do the wrong thing putting me in danger. I also wear a light colored jacket and helmet.