Engine paint

[Huzo]

A question to you guys who restore bikes to better than new condition.
Canuck, Fence Post, etc...
What is the product of choice when (re) painting engines silver ? I particularly like the nice silver colour that you typically see on BMW boxers like the R1100S or similar.
I always thought to take the black off the V85 but balked at the prospect of a complete strip down to prevent ingress of blast media.
Lately I saw a clip on dry ice (CO2) blasting and find there are places in Melbourne that do it.
I figure this would remove the need for a strip, since the dry ice melts then evaporates into Carbon Dioxide.
Thanks in advance.
Huzo.

Incidentally, I would not rule out pulling the engine in the Norge and having it re done too....

[Sye]

I have used VHT satin black in the past with great success on a few engines. Never an air cooled one though. This stuff:
https://www.frost.co.uk/vht-satin-black-engine-enamel-high-temperature-paint-312g/

[Huzo]

I have used VHT satin black in the past with great success on a few engines. Never an air cooled one though. This stuff:
https://www.frost.co.uk/vht-satin-black-engine-enamel-high-temperature-paint-312g/

Yeah, I used a similar product on the V85 in silver.
It’s very nice, but I’d hoped to get something in a brighter silver. Thank you for the fast response Sye.
I’m thinking of taking something black off the ‘85 and having a test done with dry ice as mentioned.
The rocker covers would be a good start.

[ray bear]

I re painted one of my CBX Honda engines a few years back and its a velvet silver that is not in your face and looks like alfoil as some silvers do , the closest match I could get to the Honda silver was the original Evinrude silver from the older outboards, the later model Evinrude  changed the colour to a brighter look  . Honda also put a clear over their engine paint and the Evinrude was a close copy to that finish. Ray

[Sye]

Simoniz VHT31D is the best I have found for silver. Used it on a 1972CB500 four five years ago and it's still fine now. As always, preparation is everything.
Don't know if it's available in Oz but here it is in the UK:
https://www.saveanddrive.co.uk/products/simoniz-engine-enamel-aluminium-acrylic-spray-paint-500ml-simvht31d

[Huzo]

Thanks guys, this is good stuff..

[Old Jock]

When I got the 1000 and 1100 engine casing refurbished I had them restored by a guy who put them through several treatments, the end one apparently placing the casings into a vibrating bath of ceramic balls to help peen close the surface. The casings are just bare aluminuim now, the 1000 has to be at least 6 years old and isn't showing any signs of corrosion.

http://aloh.co.uk/

He wasn't cheap but most times you end up getting what you pay for

I'm going to start to spray them ACF50 as well to help in the Winter.

I'm not a fan of painting engines as sooner or later it will start to peel. If I had to I'd use paint I'd choose silver. Although I think darker colours look amazing, when they peel it's so much more obvious.

I've been away from the world of work for a long time now, but back in the days of working on Gas Turbines, dry ice blasting was the preffered method to clean the compressors, the results were amazing. This was on rotor and stator blading worth an awful lot of cash and time was always at a premium during outages.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't expensive, just search YouTube and put in "Dry Ice Cleaning" to see it being applied

Doesn't answer your question Peter but thought I'd give you my opinion (for all that's worth)

John

[Scout63]

I don’t like painting cases if I can help it.  Aluminum cases on the BMW’s, Guzzis and Nortons do well with vapor honing, or if not disassembled and keeping patina a green scotch brite and some wd40.

For steel cases Duplicolor silver caliper paint is a very close match for Honda cases and has held up well.

https://www.pepboys.com/dupli-color-caliper-aerosol-paint-silver-12-oz-/product/9499023

[Scud]

I used VHT Engine Case Silver - over VHT grey primer, after stripping to bare metal. I only painted the rear case of the transmission, everything else is the original silver. It was a bit brighter than the original paint, and it showed more highlights on the curves. I liked it better than the original paint. But from a few feet away, you couldn't really tell the difference.

https://static.imgzeit.com/reduced/881a63f73694baa6/IMG_6528.jpg

I also used VHT Satin Black to redo the entire driveline of a Scura. It is holding up well.

[dsrdave]

I blast the cases, then use a powered brass wire brush. I then use a concrete sealer to seal the cases and prevent oxidation.  Been using this procedure for a few years and everything still looks good.  This of course is for sand cast parts. I vapor hone diecast or sand and polish

[Huzo]

Has anyone had any experience with CO2 (dry ice), blasting...?

[cliffrod]

The only experience I have with dry ice blasting is incidental.  2 different professional kitchens I was in had dry ice Blasters stop by, selling their services. The sample aluminum pans they did looked very good, stripped of carbon and not textured.  Thought it would be great for bike parts, too.    But the money people at those kitchens wouldn't pay, so no good..

I'm not clear that dry ice blasting is any more aggressive than soda blasting, which can leave surface imperfections Cleaned but largely untouched.  We've done a lot of soda blasting on bike parts.  If they're already perfect, it's the way to go.

Charlie's talk of hvlp bead blasting has me very intrigued

[Canuck750]

Has anyone had any experience with CO2 (dry ice), blasting...?

A friend had his Honda CB500 engine dry ice blasted with the engine sealed off as best he could, the results were quite impressive, not as nice as Vapour Honing but if you plan on painting the engine I think this is a great method to prepare the motor.

POR-15 makes a direct to metal silver in an aerosol paint can, not sure if the finish will be the right sheen for you but POR-15, once applied is the toughest paint I have ever found short of powder coating. I like the direct to metal product, negates the etch primer step. If you go with a VHT product I would reccommend the etch primer base coat. 

I used the 'POR-15 Silver' direct to metal on my 1968 Gilera fenders,



not sure if this is the sheen you are looking for



Apparently a very good match for 60's Honda engine silver is:

Dupli-Color Caliper Silver BCP103 (500F Degree)

VHT Caliper BC103 Gloss Clear coat

[Huzo]

Thank you Canuck.
Yours and everyone else’s input is invaluable. If you endorse this stuff it must be good.
Could I place any faith in the theory that even if my engine ingested dry ice, it would simply melt then evaporate off into gas and dissipate.
I have seen dry ice machines in use with bands and stage acts, where it simply just dissipates.

[Canuck750]

Thank you Canuck.
Yours and everyone else’s input is invaluable. If you endorse this stuff it must be good.
Could I place any faith in the theory that even if my engine ingested dry ice, it would simply melt then evaporate off into gas and dissipate.
I have seen dry ice machines in use with bands and stage acts, where it simply just dissipates.

As far as I know there is no risk to dry ice getting past an engine seal other than accumulation of moisture that an oil flush should resolve, from what I have seen I don't think you need to worry about the blast process sontaminating the engine like you would with a media blast, wet or dry

I also saw the underside of a vintage car that was dry ice blasted, pulled all the surface rust, grease and oil off, the 'after' look was amazing

[lucky phil]

A friend had his Honda CB500 engine dry ice blasted with the engine sealed off as best he could, the results were quite impressive, not as nice as Vapour Honing but if you plan on painting the engine I think this is a great method to prepare the motor.

POR-15 makes a direct to metal silver in an aerosol paint can, not sure if the finish will be the right sheen for you but POR-15, once applied is the toughest paint I have ever found short of powder coating. I like the direct to metal product, negates the etch primer step. If you go with a VHT product I would reccommend the etch primer base coat. 

I used the 'POR-15 Silver' direct to metal on my 1968 Gilera fenders,



not sure if this is the sheen you are looking for



Apparently a very good match for 60's Honda engine silver is:

Dupli-Color Caliper Silver BCP103 (500F Degree)

VHT Caliper BC103 Gloss Clear coat

Not sure of the temperature range for this top coat with regards to cylinder heads?

Ciao

[Huzo]

That black looks deep.

[Bulldog9]

It's been awhile since I've painted a motorcycle engine. But back in the day when I would build and customize Yamaha xs-11s, I used PJ1 with great results.

When I restored my 912 5 years ago, I used a lot of vht and I'm not very happy with how the paint has stood up.

[Chethro]

We used CO2/dry ice blasting to clean large industrial type electric motors after disassembling them. It would remove all dirt, grease and grime but would not remove any paint. The paint used on the inside of the motors was typically red glyptal which is very hard, so engine paint might come off, but it's hard for me to say. When finished the paint on the motors looked new. The CO2 would turn all the crud to dirt which was easily blown or vacuumed up.

I would call someone that uses the CO2 and ask if it will remove paint. As mentioned, you could always try a valve cover first.

Good Luck!

[Huzo]

We used CO2/dry ice blasting to clean large industrial type electric motors after disassembling them. It would remove all dirt, grease and grime but would not remove any paint. The paint used on the inside of the motors was typically red glyptal which is very hard, so engine paint might come off, but it's hard for me to say. When finished the paint on the motors looked new. The CO2 would turn all the crud to dirt which was easily blown or vacuumed up.

I would call someone that uses the CO2 and ask if it will remove paint. As mentioned, you could always try a valve cover first.

Good Luck!

Thank you Chethro.
That is a good direction to go, quite encouraging. I don’t know how the V85 will look with a silver engine, but I guess it’ll be the opposite effect than if I painted my Norge engine black...! 

[Guzzistaracing]

Trying not to hijack this thread but I am in the process of building a cafe racer out of an old V65 and all aluminium is very ugly. I have considered glass beed blasting the engine and gearbox, would this turn out ok and does it need to be painted? Not looking for originality just a good look. Thankful for answers.

[Huzo]

Trying not to hijack this thread but I am in the process of building a cafe racer out of an old V65 and all aluminium is very ugly. I have considered glass beed blasting the engine and gearbox, would this turn out ok and does it need to be painted? Not looking for originality just a good look. Thankful for answers.

That’s not a hijack at all.
I’m wanting to do my Norge for the same reason. Good one...

[Canuck750]

Not sure of the temperature range for this top coat with regards to cylinder heads?

Ciao

From the POR-15 web page: 

POR-15 is temperature resistant up to 450 degrees. A test showed that no adhesion was lost at 450 degrees F for 10 hours

[Canuck750]

Trying not to hijack this thread but I am in the process of building a cafe racer out of an old V65 and all aluminium is very ugly. I have considered glass beed blasting the engine and gearbox, would this turn out ok and does it need to be painted? Not looking for originality just a good look. Thankful for answers.

Dry media blast will not leave a smooth or shiney surface if that is what you are after. If you carefully seal up the motor with plugs and silicone so NO glass bead can get anywherer into the engine than a dry blast can be used if you are not going to totally dissasemble the engine.

When I restored my 1975 Ducati 860 GT I did not split the cases or venture into the bottom end so I sealed up everything with clear silicone in a tube and plugs, let the silicone set up for a couple days and dry b;asted the exterior of the engine with fine glass bead.

This is tghe before picture



and after dry blasting outside in the back lane



Cyllinders and heads were then pulled off and the heads completely dissasembled, after vapour blasting these parts



Vapour blast leaves a uniform finish, satin like and since no glass beads are fractured on impact therfe is no glisten that occurs when a dry blast beaded part is held up to a bright light.

more vapour blasted parts, you can not vapour blast anything that is not stripped down to its base part, no bearings, shafts, pins etc left on the part and vapour blast will not remove paint and barley removes grease.

[lucky phil]

Soda blasting works quite well. I've used soda in my bead blaster a few times.

Ciao

[Huzo]

So Canuck and others..
What would you do to get the black off the V85 and do it in silver.
Secondly.
Bring the Norge engine/gearbox back to accept silver as well.

[Canuck750]

So Canuck and others..
What would you do to get the black off the V85 and do it in silver.
Secondly.
Bring the Norge engine/gearbox back to accept silver as well.

If the black paint is well adhered you could just paint over it. Aircraft paint stripper works pretty good for paint removal, it is available in an aerosol can at automotive paint supply shops.

[Huzo]

If the black paint is well adhered you could just paint over it. Aircraft paint stripper works pretty good for paint removal, it is available in an aerosol can at automotive paint supply shops.

Really..?
Paint over the black with silver...?

[Canuck750]

Really..?
Paint over the black with silver...?

You might have a hard time getting the old paint off so painting over the original may be your only option. Soda blast will most likely remove the original paint but it’s a messy process if you do it yourself. If you have a strong air compressor and a siphon spray gun it’s worth trying outdoors but do it on a surface that you can sweep up the used soda, the stuff will kill plants. Soda blast is safe on the engine but you still need to seal the motor up.

You have to get that motor very clean  regardless of how you paint it. There can’t be any oil or dirt anywhere or the paint will peel off.

If you leave some or all of the black paint on then I suggest an etch primer first, make sure the primer is good for 400F.

[Huzo]

Goodness...!