small Guzzi: newer or vintage?

[Mwether]

Here is a 2013 V7 in Cincinnati for $3500. I don't know the seller. He says he got it from Cadre.

Thanks, AMB!
I've got that one saved in FB. While I like the look of wire wheels better, I think I'm leaning towards cast for practical reasons. It seems you've got more tire options with the alloys, since you can run tubeless.

[Dirk_S]

Thanks, AMB!
I've got that one saved in FB. While I like the look of wire wheels better, I think I'm leaning towards cast for practical reasons. It seems you've got more tire options with the alloys, since you can run tubeless.

If you're willing to, it's not too much of a chore to seal spoked wheels to run tubeless. I did it on mine a couple years ago, and will be doing it again on this next set I bought for the sidecar.

[Mwether]

For the folks suggesting a v50 III or v65

SNIP

Then I thought if 1 or 2 guys more knowledgeable than me couldn't get it working, how the heck am I going to accomplish that? 

SNIP

did I give up too easily?    Are they really out there?  Are there "secret" parts stashes?

Your questions are my questions, UTBF. 
When it comes to the vintage bikes, I'm starting to think of a continuum with continually shrinking quantities...

<larger numbers------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------smaller numbers>

(MGSBs imported to US in 80s) > (MGSBs currently extant 40yrs on) > (MGSBs extant in US that are a) immediately rideable and b) affordable)


Sort of a hen's teeth/unicorn deal, it seems. Hence the V7, which I believe is Guzzi's most popular bike ever. There are a lot (relatively) around, and they're still making them.

In fact, they are consistently improving them, which makes the earlier iterations slightly less desirable. Even in these wacky times, I think used Guzzis are a buyers market. Folks who know them love them; most others think they're weird. For most of my motorcycling career, I thought they were weird, and then I started to shift my perspective and understand that they are unique. An important distinction.

[Kev m]

When a "modern" 750 vibrates more than a 53 year old 750 (Ambassador) or 47 year old Convert, it vibrates too much (IMO).

....I gotta wonder how much is perception and how much is reality?

[Mwether]

I'm going on record that each person's hands, feet, bum, and other vibration sensitive bits are theirs alone! 

Consequently, there are a multitude of lived experiences when it comes to "detonation sensation."

Can't we all get along? 

[AJ Huff]

Other than nostalgia, I don't see the point in buying a vintage small block and pumping money into it to get it well sorted equal the same price as a modern small block.

-AJ

[Jorg66]

@Mwether, I decided to go 'new' V 7 III, same reason as many other here, still retro look,fun 'little' scoot, easy to handle and easy to look after.
Nice edition to our 'heavy ' 1400 Cali.
I had old in years pass and enjoyed them but it can take time and effort[ fun] to keep such going. Not to say that i'd like some older Guzzi [V7 or Nuovo Falcone] at some time back in the Shed.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

....I gotta wonder how much is perception and how much is reality?

 

[Kev m]

Oh I didn't realize you had data?

Rpm points, speeds, maybe frequency of pulses or amount of movement measured with a sensor at the bar end? At least that's how Harley engineers have measured it in the past.

Unless you're just talking about perception, which, jokes aside we've all admitted vary. Which is what raised the question. I'm perfectly willing to accept my feelings on the matter are perception and not facts.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Here's my advice: everyone should buy newer (that way the prices of the oldies will go down and I can afford more of them). 

[Scout63]

Here's my advice: everyone should buy newer (that way the prices of the oldies will go down and I can afford more of them). 

+1

[Kiwi_Roy]

A used V7 sounds just the ticket for you, as you say they often come up quite cheap.
I ride a V7III special with a 5-1/2 gallon metal tank, it has a range of 270 miles.
I would say buy any V7 in your area, only after riding it for a while will you figure out what one you really want.
The trouble with Guzzis they tend to multiply, before you know where you are there's 3 or 4 more finding their way into your heart.

[mauriceetjeannine]

Thank you, maurice! I appreciate your vote! I like the look of the V65, for sure! 

Do you have the SP or the unfaired version?

Mine is an unfaired but with an Agostini complete fairing like this one but for V50 https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=73986.0.

Regards,

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Other than nostalgia, I don't see the point in buying a vintage small block and pumping money into it to get it well sorted equal the same price as a modern small block.

-AJ

Let me see if I can shed some light on this. "Satisfaction" is the word that mainly comes to mind. That is, the satisfaction I get in knowing that I resurrected a non-running "barn find" and made it a good running, reliable machine once again. It's a rolling display of my mechanical skills and determination to save an unloved machine from the scrap heap or being parted out. "Farkling" a newer one just doesn't give me the same feeling.

Also, vintage small-blocks are simple, basic machines (with the possible exception of the Bosch e.i.), easy and enjoyable to work on. They're considerably lighter and more nimble than newer small-blocks as well.

Then there's rarity - not everyone has one, vs. newer ones are fairly common. Nice to own and ride something a bit unique and unusual.

Subjectively: styling. I like the mini-Tonti looks of my V50 III better than the retro styling of the newer V7s.

Cost varies, but mine in still in the negative (less than zero) . It was part of a package deal, the rest of the stuff was sold off at a profit, and the V50 III didn't need much.

I realize that how I feel in this regard and what works for me isn't the same for others. Not everyone has the free time and/or desire to take on projects of this nature. "It's all good". 

[Mwether]

Let me see if I can shed some light on this.

Thanks a bunch, Charlie; you are no help at all! 

You've captured my dilemma precisely: I prefer the old bikes for all the reasons you've listed, i.e., aesthetics, simplicity, rarity, etc.

Also—as a fan of philosophies like Matt Crawford's in Shop Class as Soulcraft—I recognize and value (and try, with varying degrees of success, to practice) the balance of mental and physical tasks inherent in making things (go) by hand. I am officially "okay" at stuff like that, not great.

In the end, economics and marital accord take the front seat. I'm trying to figure how the least funds can deliver the most bang for the buck. All things considered, that SEEMS to be by buying a newer bike.

However, this does remind me of my first bike: a 1971 Suzuki T125 barn find that I bought in about 1985 for one dollar per cc. I was a junior in high school, and my mom only let me buy it because it wasn't running. She used to joke that I could ride it in the back of a pickup truck. Well, I got it running (on about 1.5 of its 2 cylinders) and had a great time on it. Perhaps lightning could strike twice, but I have a feeling many riding seasons could go by before I find a healthy V50 III...

Edited to add:
1. The RATE of expenditure is also an important consideration. While the total dollar amount to restore a vintage bike might be higher, there is a perceptual advantage to spreading that cost out over time. This makes less financial sense, but it can "feel" better. (Favors an older, cheaper bike.)

2. However, I do not have the experience to evaluate whether a $1500 MG smallblock is a good candidate for restoration/squaring away. I don't know enough about parts availability etc. to make that determination. (Favors a newer, more expensive bike.)

[steven c]

Didn't the early small blocks have a oiling issue in the rear drive? I had a V65SP that I really enjoyed, but the couple I sold it to (30 years ago)had something go in the rear drive.

[Tiki Joe]

Do you prefer to tinker or ride?  I like both but much prefer to ride; so luckily I'm able to have several bikes.  I wouldn't be able to stand only having 1 bike and it being torn apart not ridable.  I'd say I'm 80% ride and 20% tinker....if you're in the same spectrum, get a newer bike for sure.  These are fairly inexpensive to buy used.   

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Didn't the early small blocks have a oiling issue in the rear drive? I had a V65SP that I really enjoyed, but the couple I sold it to (30 years ago)had something go in the rear drive.

There is an update, actually two.

1) Drill an oil passage so that fling off the ring gear finds it's way to the pinion bearings more effectively, flip a shim around to catch that oil and funnel it down the hole. My V50 III went 40k + without that modification though, the gears and bearings all still look like new. 

2) The "lock tabs" under the ring gear bolts can fracture, the bolt(s) then loosens, lots of crunchy noises ensue and possibly a cracked housing. Remove the tabs (which do nothing anyway) and Loctite the bolts into place.

[mauriceetjeannine]

hello,

The old SB (may be before NTX) are smaller and 25 kg lighter than V7. I prefer carb vs injection.....

regards

[Chuck in Indiana]

Not everyone has the free time and/or desire and *ability* to take on projects of this nature. "It's all good". 

FIFY, Charlie. 

There is an update, actually two.

1) Drill an oil passage so that fling off the ring gear finds it's way to the pinion bearings more effectively, flip a shim around to catch that oil and funnel it down the hole. My V50 III went 40k + without that modification though, the gears and bearings all still look like new.

2) The "lock tabs" under the ring gear bolts can fracture, the bolt(s) then loosens, lots of crunchy noises ensue and possibly a cracked housing. Remove the tabs (which do nothing anyway) and Loctite the bolts into place.

Mod number 2 is the most important, and *needs* to be done. While you are in there, though, you may as well do number 1.   
If you can do this, and you have gotten rid of that stupid Bosch ignition.. an old small block is a fine choice.
If you don't like or can't do this stuff, the choice is simple. Get a new one.

[Dirk_S]

hello,

The old SB (may be before NTX) are smaller and 25 kg lighter than V7. I prefer carb vs injection.....

Lighter I understand, but how else are they smaller? They’re using the same (slightly modified) small block frame.

[AJ Huff]

I don't remember your budget, but Cadre posted.a 2023 V7 850 Stone in red this morning on Facebook. $7000

-AJ

[sign216]

There's a thread further down the page, on Heron headed smallblocks vs the newer hemi head ones.  Take a look at the thread.

The modern hemi heads have better numbers on paper, but most people find the old Heron heads feel better, have a better real world ride.

Joe


P.S. Guzzi smallblocks were the last road vehicles in the world to use the Heron heads of WW2 fame.  That's reason enough for me...

[texasmoto]

I've seen a ton of 850 T3s come up for sale on FB Marketplace in central texas. They're in such good shape I kind of regret starting my restoration when I could have bought one already restored - and for less than what I've put in! Yay Italian motorcycles

[Kiwi_Roy]

To get a well sorted older motorcycle will cost as much or more than a newer used motorcycle.
The benefit of an older motorcycle is they were designed by humans and were easier to fix if something goes wrong. But the odds of problems is no greater than that of a modern motorcycle.

But then again I am gravitating to the V7 III as a good balance between old and new, thinking add gas and go.
This guy knows how to use a guzzi to it's full.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9S85OvcRCw

An old Eldorado, 50 years and not looking back
You really can't go wrong with an old Guzzi

[Matteo]

Lightweight and fun, my stripped down V65SP.

[kidsmoke]

read through the whole thread before realizing it was a couple of years old.

This thread really is a great read for anyone curious about those that love the brand. Why some insist on the old bikes, and a reasonable argument for new. Mention of nearly every model from introduction of the V forward, save for the CARC models. Certainly sharing any of Nick's Eldo videos is just not fair. The thrum of that lump while the rivers and rocks roll past is simply intoxicating and will make anyone believe they can and should find their own old bike...

Does anyone know if the OP ever became an owner?

[Mwether]

read through the whole thread before realizing it was a couple of years old.
...

Does anyone know if the OP ever became an owner?

Hi, kidsmoke. Glad you found value in the thread; I sure did!

In short, I'm not YET a Guzzi owner, but I'm still very interested. I wound up buying another Italian (Piaggio Liberty scooter) in the meantime, which is just about the perfect daily urban commuter. It's also great for the the 35-45 mph two lanes that abound in this area. I do want something longer-legged as a stablemate and still am looking at Guzzis!

[wicks]

The white V 50 Charlie posted 

Older is cooler just not too old (else you need to wrench yourself), find one that is running currently and hasn't been messed with much.