small Guzzi: newer or vintage?

[Mwether]

Can't believe no one has pointed out the real answer ... you need both!! 

Finally! Some unassailable logic! 

The only wrinkle is that my wife is not convinced of the economic feasibility of one bike, let alone two. (We're about to have three in college, so she probably has a point.) My last ditch argument is that if three of our four cars go to college, I will need a vehicle, and a used bike will be cheaper (or the same) as a used car and a LOT more fun. Wish me luck with that line of reasoning!

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Charlie, it's worth a LOT; I really appreciate a response from someone with your expertise. Thank you.

The V50 is an intriguing bike to be sure. It sounds like this one (and the rest of the fleet) is sort of perpetually for sale:
http://www.retrotours.com/1979-Moto-Guzzi-V50-3713/

The vibration issue with your Stone gives me pause. If you have time to reply:
Where did you feel the vibes? Bars? Pegs? All over? 
Were they constantly intrusive or just at certain RPM?
How did they differ from other Guzzi vibes?

Gratefully,
Jeff

A V50 III is my pick of the V50s - the V50 and V50 II have smaller valves and carburetors, so are down on power compared to the III. They also have Bosch electronic ignition which can cause issues - the insulation falls off the pickup wiring causing running issues, and the advance "curve" is rather abrupt.

The V65SP is probably the best of the early small-blocks sold in the US.

The vibration that was hard to live with on my Stone was mostly through the bars. Seemed to be worst at a steady speed - around 55-60 mph, IIRC (it's been two years). Maybe if I had tried heavier bar end weights and other things that normally work, it might have been alleviated. Most likely it just needed a bunch more miles put on it before it finally "broke in".

[bad Chad]

I had a very nice v65sp.   Fun bike, but it did feel like a 30 year old bike when compared to any modern SB.

Based on your stated wants, I would try to find a nice modern SB, in my opinion, on practically every meaningful way, the new ones are better than the old

[majstevetrevor]

V7III seems to fit the bill well. Air cooled engine still feels pretty retro, and new or close to new models can be had at a pretty good discount it seems.

[Caffeineo]

As a very happy owner of a V9 Bobber Sport I may be biased. ;) But I think you should have a look at the V9 Roamer & Bobber. Great fun and reliable bikes and being a Guzzi......the used one's are priced quite well. I got a Beetle map and Zard pipes and it runs and sounds great. It ran good before the remap but it did make a good improvement and still gets almost 50 MPG.

[Mwether]

As a very happy owner of a V9 Bobber Sport I may be biased. ;) But I think you should have a look at the V9 Roamer & Bobber. Great fun and reliable bikes and being a Guzzi......the used one's are priced quite well. I got a Beetle map and Zard pipes and it runs and sounds great. It ran good before the remap but it did make a good improvement and still gets almost 50 MPG.

Thanks, Caffeineo.
It bums me out (though it also simplifies my decision) that neither of those bikes speaks to me for a couple of reasons. One, I'm not a fan of the styling in either case. All factory bobbers pale in comparison to the Bonneville Bobber, IMO. And the Roamer has always looked like a Sportster to me, which would have been super cool when I was younger, but my tastes have changed. Second, they have significantly smaller tanks than the V7. Picky SOB, huh? 

[Mwether]

A V50 III is my pick of the V50s

SNIP

The V65SP is probably the best of the early small-blocks sold in the US.

Super helpful. So a well-fettled V50III or V65SP for oldsters, and a broken-in V7 for new gen!

I had a very nice v65sp.   Fun bike, but it did feel like a 30 year old bike when compared to any modern SB.

Based on your stated wants, I would try to find a nice modern SB, in my opinion, on practically every meaningful way, the new ones are better than the old

Pretty cool when posts start to confirm one another! (bad Chad, I'm reading SB as "standard bike"...?)

V7III seems to fit the bill well. Air cooled engine still feels pretty retro, and new or close to new models can be had at a pretty good discount it seems.

Agreed!

[AJ Huff]

SB = small block.

People have mentioned T-series Guzzis. Never have I heard them referred to small blocks. As far as I know, all of the what we refer to as Tonti frame bikes, 850T, 850T3, G5, Convert, EV, etc. are big blocks. Loops too.

V50, V65, newer 750s like the Breva and Nevada, and the current V7 I, II, III are small blocks.

-AJ

[Mwether]

SB = small block.

Thanks, AJ. Sometimes my own density surprises me... 

[Huzo]

Greer’s bike would be worth a look ?

[bad Chad]

Mwether, I think you have your thought track right.  If you want to go full old school, then you can't do better than a well sorted v50III, or V65.   And, if your open to modern SB (small block) all seem to be a good choice.

I currently have a v9 Roamer, which I really like a whole lot, and I get the styling is not for everyone.   If I were in your shoes, I would look very hard to find a nice V7III, not that the others aren't good, I just think you get more with the III.   But really, any of the lot, from the Breva on are really good, fun bikes.  And I say this as a dude who stands 6'6"!

[Kthomas]

I live in Burnsville NC ( 45 miles from Asheville )and just bought a 84 V65 . Earl had this bike at one time I think . I like it. It has 13,000 miles and still has the double valve spring setup so I suppose it still has the crappy valves. I’ll change them at some point when I get some extra cash 🤪

[Muzz]

from the Breva on are really good, fun bikes.  And I say this as a dude who stands 6'6"!

Man, are you that tall Chad!   i am 5' 7.25", and the Breva fits absolutely perfectly.  11" range and we both fit a smallblock.  Actually, pretty impressive.

[mauriceetjeannine]

V65 for sure!!! Small and cheap bike..... I have 5 SB and my favorite is the V65.

[Mwether]

I live in Burnsville NC ( 45 miles from Asheville )and just bought a 84 V65 . Earl had this bike at one time I think . I like it. It has 13,000 miles and still has the double valve spring setup so I suppose it still has the crappy valves. I’ll change them at some point when I get some extra cash 🤪

KT, I know Burnsville well. My wife's family has a cabin off of 261 on the shoulder of Roan, and we go through Burnsville to get there. You live in a pretty place!

That V65 is a great looking bike, even with the valve covers off!

This fellow in FL is selling an '84 for $2700. It's been on Bookface forever. The description doesn't sound ideal...
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/218180517143043/

Here's an earlier post (with a higher price) and more pictures.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/340992403749092/
I think it's funny that 48 weeks ago it was a "90% perfect creampuff" but now it's "87% happy all around." 

[Mwether]

V65 for sure!!! Small and cheap bike..... I have 5 SB and my favorite is the V65.

Thank you, maurice! I appreciate your vote! I like the look of the V65, for sure! 

Do you have the SP or the unfaired version?

[Mwether]

Greer’s bike would be worth a look ?

Thanks, Huzo. Is this a dealer or a member?

[Mwether]

The engine vibes on my '17 V7 Stone often annoy me. Getting the rpm up helps, but I don't love micromanaging the gearing. I remapped with a Beetle map, which helped the throttle snatch and cruising surge, but it didn't help the vibes. Although I suspect the map wasn't meant to. I really do love the bike. For me, it's the shortest distance to a gas 'n go 'classic'. I may fiddle with it this summer, maybe slip ons, and another map will change the feel. I really want to keep it.

Thanks, CB. This is the second mention of vibes being an issue with V7s; something I need to watch for when I take a longer test ride.

I didn't note it on a long-ago test at Matthews Fun Machines, but that was just a short, round-the-block noodle on surface roads.

[Huzo]

Thanks, Huzo. Is this a dealer or a member?

A well regarded member.
Check out the thread

“Another deal ‘21 V7 850”

I just bumped it up to the top for you.

[Kev m]

Thanks, CB. This is the second mention of vibes being an issue with V7s; something I need to watch for when I take a longer test ride.

I guess it's a personal thing cause over the years you hear this sort of thing about every bike from Harley to JAPanInc. and some people will swear it's nothing and others will swear it's the whole world.

That said--- THE GUYS SAYING THAT ARE FRIGGING NUTS.

I have hated high frequency buzzing from L4s to even some higher strung boxer twins.

I have even hated INTRUSTIVE low-frequency vibrations from solidmount Harleys.

But I have never in my life, even for a few seconds, thought that any of my Guzzis (including both of my smallblocks) vibrated excessively. And shit, it's not like my Jackal or Breva 1100 was smoother than my smallblocks.

Funny the rpm range mentioned, because in top gear that might well be lugging. But the people mentioning it know enough not to do that (I believe).

So I guess it's a personal thing.

But it's so not a thing to me.

PS - if you make it up to NJ before deciding, take one of my smallbocks for a few hours and find out yourself. Of course, the weather isn't conducive and I bet you'll get offers closer to home before this is all over.

Have fun


PS - modern - that's it. Roper talked me out of buying a classic one years ago. And despite the fact that I'm more than capable of working on them, I have no desire to any more than I have to, so modern is the only answer for me. YMMV

[Dirk_S]

Thanks, CB. This is the second mention of vibes being an issue with V7s; something I need to watch for when I take a longer test ride.

If my V7 II vibrated any less, I don't think I'd love it as much as I do. If I wanted ultra smooth, I'd get a Japanese parallel twin. To me, a V-twin--cam shaft below, pushrods and all--means a less "refined" and more pure/raw experience. I want to be reminded every time I ride that I'm on a machine that's been hand-built.

The fact that the V85 TT felt so smooth when I test rode it was actually one of my turnoffs.

[Iron Cross Junction]

A well regarded member.
Check out the thread

“Another deal ‘21 V7 850”

I just bumped it up to the top for you.

Saw this just before I hit send with my post, below. 

I don't do FB so can't see all of that, but do not think that is Sarah's V7-OS (On Steroids), tho she has one.   And, I am musing on selling my III to get one of those.  With the accelerating cost of used vehicles these days, that does seem (a somewhat mysterious) deal.

Now, to my YMMV comments. 

I’m a retired word merchant who can chew cud with the best of bovines, but even I think the discussion has pretty well digested — I should apologize for that, but admire it too much  — all major issues of old v. new.  But, naturally, that won’t stop me from adding to the deluge.

Nearly all Guzzis from barn finds to those on showroom floors have charm.  If one just won Powerball, well, cost is irrelevant, but most of us don’t play and none of us win, so that’s — like my Stornello (a V7 II, BTW) just now — is a nonstarter.

I am drawn to vintage, but more to Nipponese machines than Guzzis or other Euro ones.  I say that until I see one of Charlie’s restorations or the like.  It’s why I never take a trailer to swap meets and shows.  My otherwise indulgent Perfect Pillion & Polish Princess would use a rusty butterknife to convert me into a castrato! 

But even I know that, at my age and with my (pathetic) wrenching skillset, a vintage Guzzi would be unwise.  Besides, I am a lousy tenor and doubt I’d sound better in falsetto.   

OTOH, and more relevantly (I hope), my ’98 EV ( a California) is nearing vintage class.  With 106K, it still romps with younger machines.

The only thing I have not seen mentioned in this thread (tho perhaps I missed it) is not an issue of riding or wrenching.  With three headed to college soon, you are young enough for this to be less of a concern than it is for is more “seasoned” Guzzisti, i.e., just moving the beasts around in the garage, driveway, etc., while not mounted.

Anyone can ride a motorcycle down roads at warp speed, but a garage drop is about the only thing that comes easier with age!  $igh.

Playing Rubik’s Cube in the Moto Grappa with my moto-harem can be daunting.  The big blocks (EV, Griso, and Norge) are pigs, and the Stornello and V7 III delights, at one mph. 

I did not see you mention if you do any two-up riding, but whatever our memories of 750’s being big bikes, my Kathi sure likes the Norge for that.  I don't doubt that some here routinely ride two-up on vintage and modern small blocks, but that isn’t my reality.  Kathi is a slip of a thing, so she is not The Problem.  Furthermore Deponent Saith Not. 

While we live at the top of Virginia, and that’s a haul for you, we are closer than Cadre — whose praises I, too, sing — and you are always welcome if near to do a demo on my V7’s or anything else. 

Moreover, if patient, we frequently visit one set of our (13!) grands in Wendell (vic. Raleigh), N.C.  Guzzis are my hobby; Kathi’s hobby is grandkids. Not sure which is more expensive, but the latest CC bill for Christmas has me thinking she’s in the lead just now.  Anyway, I ride down there in season.”  And, in April we'll be housesitting for that bunch for a week.  If inclined, come over with your gear and ride the III — which is likely what I’ll take on that trip as it is a Goldilocks machine for local and longish trips.

OK, that sure went quickly into TLDR mode.  Sorry.  Sort of. 

Bill

P.S. One last -- I swear) comment:

If my V7 II vibrated any less, I don't think I'd love it as much as I do. If I wanted ultra smooth, I'd get a Japanese parallel twin. To me, a V-twin--cam shaft below, pushrods and all--means a less "refined" and more pure/raw experience. I want to be reminded every time I ride that I'm on a machine that's been hand-built.

The fact that the V85 TT felt so smooth when I test rode it was actually one of my turnoffs.

 
Exactly. I may be an insensitive to this -- as I am insensitive to so much else! -- but I have never felt much buzz in any Guzzi, with the (possible) exception of an 1100 Griso I rode as a loner once.  As for vibration, nada beyond the visceral thrum of a V-twin, Mandello style. 

[Mwether]

A well regarded member.
Check out the thread

“Another deal ‘21 V7 850”

I just bumped it up to the top for you.

Got it. Thanks!
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=113689.msg1798341#msg1798341
I love the looks of the Special, but I chase my tail on the "spokes/tubes" thing...

Plus that's a little spendy for me. I'm thinking maybe in Dave's ballpark...
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=110642.0

Or Rhodan's (at the $ limit but REALLY well farkled)
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=113691.0

[Kthomas]

Next time you’re up toward the roan text me and drop by. Eight 2 8 two eight four 3 seven for 6

[antmanbee]

Here is a 2013 V7 in Cincinnati for $3500. I don't know the seller. He says he got it from Cadre.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1346091622572208/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Af7165561-1eaa-40a5-b49e-8e60e32b3385

[usedtobefast]

For the folks suggesting a v50 III or v65 ... a couple of years back I saw a really excellent condition v50 III that I could not afford.    Read about the bike, and started looking for an OK one.  Not a pristine, perfect, expensive one ... but one that ran properly and had all the parts and no major issues.  They rarely popped up.  And when they did, they were either near perfect and very expensive or they needed a lot of work. 

So then I starting thinking maybe I could get one of the ones in rougher shape ... like one that isn't running properly and the ignition had been switch from points to electronic 3-4 times and it still runs funny.  Then it seemed spare parts were rare, new old stock parts rare, real knowledge of them rare.  Then I thought if 1 or 2 guys more knowledgeable than me couldn't get it working, how the heck am I going to accomplish that? 

And I've never seen a v65 in person or for sale.

So ... did I give up too easily?    Are they really out there?  Are there "secret" parts stashes?

[Kev m]

I think you've misspelled, "I've not experienced that"? 

 

Obvysly I aint gooder at spellin' hole thawts

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

When a "modern" 750 vibrates more than a 53 year old 750 (Ambassador) or 47 year old Convert, it vibrates too much (IMO).

[Mwether]

...that won’t stop me from adding to the deluge.

Glad you did, Bill. Very glad you did!

And thanks so much for the kind invitation to VA. I used to live in Arlington a few lifetimes ago!

[Mwether]

Next time you’re up toward the roan text me and drop by. Eight 2 8 two eight four 3 seven for 6

Will do for sure! Thanks much.