NGC-need car buying tips

[drburt]

I despise buying cars.
Decided to buy another rather than put another cent into my current car.
It's been a good car, but all of a sudden I've hit a snowball effect and it's time to bite the big one (buy a replacement).

Advice on used car purchase -
1. I'm no good at haggling.
2. I'll be buying used.
3. Best place to shop?
4. I'm cheap. (Guzzi content)
5. I'm scared of the unknown issues (LOL)(Who isn't)

Experience and ideas?
Thanks!
Brent

[Canuck750]

This is probably the worst time in automotive history to buy a vehicle. The good news is you probably will not have to haggle as the price will probably take it or leave it.

You nailed it on no haggling. I went car shopping a couple weeks ago, thinking of selling my 2018 before warranty runs out, I have bought new for the past 15 odd years, paid cash / trade in and always got 10% or so off the MSRP. I was shocked to find that not only are no vehicles available right now but the dealers just laughed at the idea of selling a car for anything under MSRP. I think I will hold off until the fall.

[Kev m]

Absolutely wait unless you want something very undesirable.

Most dealers around here are trying to add at least $2-6k in accessories or just plain "market adjustments". I pressed hard and a local Nissan dealer wasn't willing to go less then MSRP+$3500 on a new Frontier.

I've seen one Jeep dealer adding +$10k on all new Wranglers and Gladiators, +$25k on new Wagoneers. Can't say about other models but his used stuff was also at a real premium.

I saw a sticker on new V8 Defender today with a $100k market adjustment putting the price above $200k.

But used is no better in many instances.

I've seen 4-6 year old Wranglers asking close to original MSRP.

I've seen multiple 1-1.5 year old Defenders asking original MSRP +$10-15k.

Granted those are all popular models that I've been following/shopping, so maybe there's a Mazda, Kia, or GMC out there for more reasonable prices.

I will say if you do look new Ford, GM, and Subaru have warned their franchisees to cut it out. I'm told someone at JLR is investigating claims of gouging as well but obviously it's still going on (at dramatic levels).

You might have luck ordering one from a dealer and waiting a few months for it.

Or you might just find a dealer who is not gouging and that's cool.

But I suspect most are going to be holding heavy to MSRP and a premium on used right now.

So the best advice I can give is be patient, shop around, and don't be afraid to walk.

Any those brands I mentioned might be more likely to make a fair deal. But again all bets are off on used.

[old head]

I agree with Kev M, worst time to buy a car.

the last carght was at a state auction for surplus state vehicles.

had to put a few bucks into it, but it has been very reliable the last 5 years.  best of all its easy to work on

Much cheaper to fix them than to buy someone else's problems as a rule.  If your old car as a gazillion miles, that may not work, but in general, most cars these days will go well over 300k with maintenance.  That's been my experience.

Old Head

[Kev m]

Now that I'm up at my desk.

I didn't take too many close-up shots when shopping these past few months.

But if you look at this Chevy Colorado you'll see a little "supplemental" sticker next to the OEM sticker.



That lists the following (from memory):

Dealer Installed Options:

* 17" flat black wheels: $2,000
* Pinstriping: $1999
* Ceramic Coating: $1500
* Off-Road Performance Package (leveling kit, skids, spray-in bed liner etc.): $2,000


This took a $38k msrp truck up around $46k and the only thing I can say about it is that AT LEAST they were giving you something for all that extra money and not just tacking on a "Market Adjustment" like many are.

Here's the worst example I've seen, which I mentioned earlier:




At the same time there are still dealers selling at MSRP, maybe they're unicorns but I'm hearing about them.

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

This is probably the worst time in automotive history to buy a vehicle. The good news is you probably will not have to haggle as the price will probably take it or leave it.

Amen! I was having my wife's windows tinted 2 weeks back and since the tint guy rents a bay at the local Kia dealer, I wandered the used lot and landed at a late model Taurus SHO with about 50k on the clock.. price? almost $38k!!!!!!

[keuka4884]

When looking for a used car, be sure to check Autotrader or Car Gurus. I like Car Gurus as that site shows you how long the dealer has had the car.

[moto-uno]

  At the price of fuel , why would anyone be looking at pick-up trucks  ?  Peter

[Motormike]

I live in a small Tennessee town.  It has one used car dealership.  The lot is absoultly filled to capacity with all manner of late-model (2018 and newer) cars and trucks.  While I am not in the market for a new or used vehicle, this dealership does seem to have a very nice selection of used trucks that do tempt me whenever I drive by.  While it may that I live in a relatively poor community where few can afford a late-model vehicle, but there sure is no shortage of cars for sale from where I stand.

[Kev m]

I live in a small Tennessee town.  It has one used car dealership.  The lot is absoultly filled to capacity with all manner of late-model (2018 and newer) cars and trucks.  While I am not in the market for a new or used vehicle, this dealership does seem to have a very nice selection of used trucks that do tempt me whenever I drive by.  While it may that I live in a relatively poor community where few can afford a late-model vehicle, but there sure is no shortage of cars for sale from where I stand.

Do they have a website with prices listed?

I'd love to see what they have at what prices for perspective.

[pressureangle]

Keep your old car, unless it's German.

I bought a nice ex-fire department 1994 Chevy k2500, long bed extended cab, 5.7 engine with a blown head gasket 3 years ago for $5200.

A friend went to the Houston (?) Mecum auction and said he saw one very similar if higher optioned sell for near $20G.

Locally, S. Florida, my friend with dealer licence when a customer lamented the condition of her older pickup, told her 'I can have that sold before sundown' (at 5pm). As stated above, prices have never been higher and availability never lower. The local transmission shop said they stopped doing any service work, because every old backyard rag with a bad trans is being drug out and repaired.

The devil you know...

[sidecarnutz]

There are a few dealers out there NOT adding - bonus adjustments to their MSRP.

A few weeks back my son bought a new F350 Tremor 4 x4 diesel at Apple Motors in Lynchburg Va. No adjustments to stickers there.

The experience there was so positive that I have to admit I would drive 3 1/2 hours there myself if I needed to buy a car. Compared to the silly BS the local dealers are inflicting, they were really professional and no BS.

[RinkRat II]

         What type of car are you looking for? Commute to work? Small suv? Four door sedan? Pickup?  Two wheel drive, Four wheel drive?  If you can narrow it down there are vehicles out there that can still be bought reasonably because they may not be as popular as everyone else wants.

       Paul B 

[berniebee]

You despise buying new cars and you're cheap? Welcome to my world.  As has been mentioned here numerous times, this is an excellent time to put money into your present car vs buying another. With car prices so high at this time there is almost no repair (barring a bad rust problem) that would disqualify your vehicle from going further. 

So...What kind of vehicle do you presently own? Year? Engine? Auto or manual? Mileage? What repairs does it need now? Many parts can be replaced preventatively to make your car more reliable. For example, depending on the model and mileage, you might want to replace the starter, alternator or water pump now. Don't wait until the battery is dead, replace an old one before it strains the alternator. Flush the radiator. Flush brake fluid. All of these things cost a fraction of the cost of another vehicle.   

[LaMojo]

As you probably know, new car dealers get a lot of their use car inventory from dealers auto auctions. It’s been years ago but we put in an order for particular brand, model, mileage and year range for a dealer we knew to find. Ended up with a great deal and car. $500 over his invoice.
Of course it’s probably a lot different now with the car shortage.

[PJPR01]

I bought a new "used" car last year - 2017 model, coming off a 1 owner, non smoker lease.  Perfect to get a low mileage car, still with some factory warranty, and not have to take the major depreciation hit of a new car.  I used Car Gurus website..., you can search nationwide and hopefully find the best deal for your situation.

Very little haggling permitted even a year ago, I imagine it's similar or worse now...but that shouldn't prevent you from trying. all they can say is no.   

Ultimately I was able to negotiate some off the listed price to get a fair price from my perspective, and then did a fly and drive rather than shipping since I had some free airplane miles/hotel points and a few days off to enjoy a nice ride back.

Using Car Gurus is a good way to see the difference in pricing across the nation, and a much broader set of inventory to look at rather than your local market.

[LowRyter]

Accord or Camry.  I'm partial to Hondas.  Maybe a Civic.  Narrow your choice and find the best deal.

[John Croucher]

Number one. Narrow your search to a specific vehicle that will
meet your needs.  This takes the confusion out of comparing best value.

Trying to compare multiple types is confusing.

[Bulldog9]

I actually love test driving and buying cars. I get to be an unapologetic hard@$$.....  The Car Jockeys are trained to play on you civility and niceness, and I love taking them to the cleaners.

Tough time to be buying a car, new or used.  Not all dealers are doing ADM, so if I was buying it would be new without ADM and accept I wouldn't be getting my typical discount.  Prior to recent craze, many dealers were selling at no haggle prices for used cars. Also tough if you are interested in a new model or very popular car.

Used cars are more and more 'take it or leave it' and depending on your price point, low mileage cars are hard to come by, and some used are as expensive as new.  Case in point, I have an offer from Carfax to sell my 2017 Tundra with 65K miles for $2K less than I paid for it in 2017.

That said, my general rules and guidelines for buying cars from strangers or dealers are:
1. Be willing to walk away.
2. Be willing to be a jerk, but not impolite
3. Do NOT go off monthly payment, buy/shop/deal on the bottom line sales price
4. Research prevailing prices on the year, make model you are interested in, go in informed
5. Do NOT fall in love with any particular model or car, and NEVER let on that you love the car if you do.
6. Set a budget/goal and stick to it. I will tell the seller it is less than my absolute max, so it appears I am 'stretching'
7. Play dumb, and let the fish get the hook in the gut....
8. Be ready to buy on the spot with cash deposit or loan approval. Make it hurt for them to turn down your deal
9. Walk away if they dont meet you where you want.

I really like the CARFAX website. It is NOT a guarantee, but the quality of the cars seem to be a bit better than others at face value. I would avoid Vroom and Carvana, have heard several stories of poorly inspected or maintained cars. Carmax is a great place to 'compare' by vehicle style and price points. Craigslist is garbage these days, but there are decent private sales can be found on FB Marketplace.

Have fun with it. They smell fear and reluctance like sharks smell blood. They need your purchase, you don't need to buy.

[sidecarnutz]

  At the price of fuel , why would anyone be looking at pick-up trucks  ?  Peter

Ford Maverick. Love it 2.0 ecoboost with 8 speed auto and AWD and 4k tow package. Had it over two months now. Gets me about 26-27 mpg around town and over 34 on the hiway. Economical enough to live with and has light truck capabilities I enjoy too.

[Motormike]

Do they have a website with prices listed?

I'd love to see what they have at what prices for perspective.

I've never bothered to look.  I think it's a satellite dealership from one of the big Chattanooga dealers, but can't be certain.  Their prices no doubt reflect todays market, but they have plenty of inventory it seems to me. 

[drburt]

Man. I know it about being the worst time. Believe me, I don't want to buy a replacement right now. Maybe somebody can talk me out of it.
That Land Rover "Market Adjustment" is unbe-freakin-lievable. Makes me want to spit!

I'm definitely shopping the AutoTrader and Car Gurus. Autoblog.com seems like a real good site for info and history too.
I've been thinking about the small town used cars too. Might be able to get a more fair deal. Lot of ranchers and oil field people around here though. They might not be too poor. Might be a good reason to sell at a fair price.

I used to have a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Was a good vehicle until it got the death wobble. Didn't want to put about $2500 into the front end (including tires all the way around). It was time to retire that one. Bought a used 2011 4Runner in 2016 that my exwife took in the divorce (I gave it to her to have a dependable vehicle). I ended up with her car. We'll talk about that in a minute. That's the car I think I need to replace.

Bulldog9-AWESOME tips on tactics. Thanks!

My current car. A paid for 2000 Mercury Sable. 127,000 miles. Figured it would get me through till prices got reasonable for a replacement.
It's been dependable.
I had front end steering popping and a heater that didn't heat well. Replaced tie rod ends and went ahead and replaced front wheel bearings. Alignment. They flushed the cooling system and replaced the thermostat. That helped with the heater. Not 100% but it works. Front end and cooling system flush R&R cost about $1200. Then I had a coolant leak when I got the car back. Took it back in and they said it needed a new water pump. I do understand that flushing the cooling system can start leaks that were just waiting to happen. New water pump installed about $400. Had a coolant leak when I got it back. Took it back in and they said the timing cover has a hole in it caused by coolant eating it. $1100 to replace.
I do trust these guys. They take care of these types of minor repairs for our fleet vehicles. Don't think they would purposely rip me off.
So... I've spent $1600 and need to spend another $1100 (would be $2700 total if I choose to fix the cover, I feel like things are snowballing).
Would you gamble with this car, or gamble on a $15,000 to $20,000 NEWER replacement? I'd love to spend a whole lot less, but I don't see that happening.

I'm interested in Toyota. 4WD. SUV. Towing package. A hail damaged one would be fine (save me a few bucks) because I know it's gonna get hailed on around here sooner or later.

Whadya think?
Thanks
Brent

[Kev m]

And just because I can't follow my own advice.... I shopped a new/leftover Wrangler 4XE Sahara yesterday (and might test drive it later this week).

* $61.8k msrp
* $1200 BS addons (seriously some aftermarket lo-jack kinda crap and BRAKE LIGHT MODULATOR I shit you not)
* plus TTT
_________
-$28.5k offer on my 2016 Wrangler JKU Sahara (51k miles, was $38k new, well MSRP was $42, I paid $38), this is almost market, maybe $1500 low.

Only thing I could get them to drop so far was the $400 for the brake light modulator.

This model being a PHEV qualifies for a $7500 tax credit, but I'll have to wait a year to cash that in. At least I can loan that to myself and take it off the price along with whatever else I want to put down.

Bottom line I would probably have to finance about $19k for a couple of years.

Gonna tell them I'll drive it Friday.

Might talk to them about ordering a different model at that time and see if I can get them to agree to MRSRP on that plus installing a lift kit (that I pay for) instead of that lo-jack and modulator crap.

Probably will not buy... (that's what I keep trying to tell myself).

[Bisbonian]

I have been offered thousands over what I paid for my Volt 3 years ago through Carvana, I'd expect the other online car buying options to be similar. On the flipside a local dealer felt generous and offered me $7500 so I'm sure they were looking to make a huge profit.

We bought a new Toyota last year, I think we got a $500 discount based on a program they had going at the time but there was no haggling on the price as mentioned above. But at least they weren't tacking on extra money.

[Alfetta]

Keep your old car, unless it's German.

WELL SAID and best include Volvo as "near German", (over-priced with "dealer only" service demands on everything),
I'll would prefer an abused Lada !!!

[tommy2cyl]

It's a complete free for all out there right now.  Walked a local Ohio dealer lot 2 weeks ago.  Every used car had an additional sticker of $499.00 for interior/exterior protection package. Every new car had $1K/$2K or $2.5 K mark up (KIA dealership). Just got back from Florida where my buddy was looking so we went to check what was available.   Local KIA dealership had an EV6 which we did a short test drive.  MSRP was roughly $53 K.  With markups and, I kid you not, an upscale license plate holder, the price was $69 K.  We went to about 6 different make dealerships, and none of them had cars on the floor.  The sales floors were all reconfigured with sales desks.  Asked one salesman why, and he said the cars are selling within a day of displaying them and it wasn't worth the prep time and cost to get them onto the sales floor.  At the KIA dealership, I asked the sales manager why the markups were so high.  He looked me square in the eye and said KIA prices their cars differently.  He said the dealership had $4,200 in prep above MSRP to get the car ready for sale.  He said that has always been the way KIA has priced their cars.  REALLY?  I just smiled and nodded my head up and down.  Most of the EV vehicles are not even available.  No Ford Mach E's, the EV6 was just for test driving, had to order.  My pal was interested in the KIA Kona EV.  Can't even get it in Florida.  Only available in 7 states and the closest one was near JFK in NY and they only had one left out of the 5 they had at the beginning of the week, (or so they said). 17% of new cars sold over MSRP in 2021.  So far in 2022, 85% are selling over MSRP.  The destination and prep/delivery charges are up and another way to get deeper into your pockets.  Even though inventory was severely down, across the board dealer profit was up $150 billion last year in US.  This chip shortage and supply chain issues has caused a fundamental shift in how dealers are going to do business in the future.  Ford is splitting their business into 2 separate divisions with the EV's being sold directly to the consumer and being a separate entity from the ICE products sold through dealers.   The manufactures have seen the future and we are in a new world.  I think, and a lot of people much smarter than me, think the days of rebates, lot's filled with abundant stock where you go and choose what you want from 10 models sitting there, and haggling your best price, are over.  Couple that with the rapid advancement of EV's, as the saying goes, "This isn't your father's Oldsmobile."  This is a cataclysmic change in the world of purchasing vehicles. 

Sorry for the ramble.  Back to the original post.  If I truly needed a vehicle, I would try to buy direct off an individual.  Hopefully you have a little time to do proper diligence.  There are folks out there, like many on this forum, who take care of their vehicles.  Take your time, seek them out, drive the vehicle and review invoices on maintenance performed.  Get a read on the owner, and make an intelligent decision.  Buying from a dealer right now would be the last option for me.  I wish you well in your search.

[Motormike]

With the recent increase in interest rates, and many more hikes to follow, this "extra sticker" add-on crap is going to end real soon.   Just for an example, a news article on TV said recent RV sales have fallen significantly. (And are going to fall a lot more before it's over.)  I suspect truck sales will be first to fall off a cliff, but with another 5 or 6 rate hikes planned for this year alone, cars sales won't be far behind.

[Vagrant]

On December 27/21 I bought a new 22 Highlander All wheel drive hybrid for list at a local dealer. No extras and he didn't even try to sell.me floor mats, protection or extended warranty. I got $500. From Toyota and 36 months 0%. Better still he gave me $4000 less than I had paid for my 2017 new with 45000 miles on it and in need of four tires. Thats a win in my book!
Go to the mfgs site and build what you want. They will tell you the retail and serial number and whos getting it. Then  start phoning buying used right now is nuts!
 And to the Kia dealer that wanted to charge me $10,000 over list I calmly said he would never see me again. This BS will pass and customers need to remember who treated them right. 

[MMRanch]

drburt

I bought a 2017 Colorado that gets 27 mpg.   That is nice for a truck.  But a Car ... wouldn't a 50 mpg be the smart thing to do ? 

Yea , I know ... now-days that ain't funny ! 

A feller from New Zeland told me gas there is about $16.oo / gal , but they buy it by the Lt.   

Some folks think that high fuel prices is the right thing to do for the planet and it may be ? 

[stubbie]

$16 a gallon might be a bit over exaged, it is close to $10 here in Oz. Used prices on a lot of cars here has shot up quite a lot especially V8 Toyota Landcruisers, some selling for more than new car prices. You can't buy a new one without a 6 or more month wait. Some used cars i was looking at 12 months ago have almost doubled in price.