1970 Ambassador chrome bores

[sdcr]

There is a 1970 Ambassador currently being auctioned on BaT. https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=115685.0
Seems that there are a few people who feel that the chrome bores are not a big deal, and not changing them out is, a viable option. This includes the seller, who had a shop check the engine for damage.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

"Denial is more than a river in Egypt." 

I have never taken a chrome-bore engine apart that didn't have some level of deterioration. Low miles, high miles - didn't matter.

A friend once bought a pair of NOS chrome bore cylinders with pistons from a former dealer that was liquidating his leftover stock. They looked "perfect" when he put them on his Eldo, but 1000 miles later flakes were showing up in the oil...

[Cam3512]

"Denial is more than a river in Egypt." 

I have never taken a chrome-bore engine apart that didn't have some level of deterioration. Low miles, high miles - didn't matter.

A friend once bought a pair of NOS chrome bore cylinders with pistons from a former dealer that was liquidating his leftover stock. They looked "perfect" when he put them on his Eldo, but 1000 miles later flakes were showing up in the oil...

 Case closed.

[Canuck750]

Some people just don’t want to listen! A fellow visited my shop last year with a freshly purchased V7 Sport, original chrome bores. I went through the whole storey of why he should not fire it up (been sitting for over ten years), he was not convinced he should disassemble the motor and have the crank, bearings and oil pump inspected and replace the cylinders with Giladorni kits. He came back to see me last week wanting to ‘revisit’ the whole issue again, he is buying a new pair of Giladorni kits but does not want to disassemble the motor or have the heads checked. So despite my advice he is only going to replace the cylinders and pistons. What am I supposed to tell him??
I suppose fitting the Giladorni kits alone is better than nothing but who knows the condition of the pump and bearings?

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

I put the initial comment there, but I'm not going to argue in there and shit up his auction. If people want to roll the dice, that's on them. The info is out there.

[cliffrod]

Some people just don’t want to listen! A fellow visited my shop last year with a freshly purchased V7 Sport, original chrome bores. I went through the whole storey of why he should not fire it up (been sitting for over ten years), he was not convinced he should disassemble the motor and have the crank, bearings and oil pump inspected and replace the cylinders with Giladorni kits. He came back to see me last week wanting to ‘revisit’ the whole issue again, he is buying a new pair of Giladorni kits but does not want to disassemble the motor or have the heads checked. So despite my advice he is only going to replace the cylinders and pistons. What am I supposed to tell him??
I suppose fitting the Giladorni kits alone is better than nothing but who knows the condition of the pump and bearings?

Hah- you could give him my number so he can talk to someone who has btdt with his V7 Sport….

The thing about my cylinders wasn't that I was simply being obstinate or pretending it wasn’t a real problem.  The heads were off the engine of my bike when I got it.  The pistons were firmly stuck, apparently from sitting,  and chrome was bubbling and peeling around the rings & above the rings.  I didn’t see obvious indications of chrome peeling in lower portions of the cylinders while running in a way that would scrub the chrome into the rest of the engine.

After having numerous engines with stuck pistons, that contact area and the exposed area above the pistons is typically where such damage occurs as a piston rusts/corrodes/freezes in place as it sits.  So I didn’t see any more reason to fully strip that engine to check for chrome everywhere than I had to strip other engines that had stuck but ran ok as long as the cylinder wasn’t deeply pitted at the ring line.  It was an honest mistake but it was an expensive lesson.

Edit- I should clarify that I was not told nor had any knowledge of the advanced problems these chrome bores will cause.  30 yrs ago, it was generally seen as a way to service the chrome bores that had failed in use or an option available for worrywarts & newbies with money to burn.  Most bikes were still working just fine at that time with their original chrome bores.  Swapping out chrome cylinders on an otherwise good-running engine as a preemptive move was not a suspender-snapping prerogative..   

[guzziart]

I bought my '72 Eldo in 2014 from the original owner with 19k miles on it, he claimed he checked the cylinders and they were not flaking.  While doing routine maintenance (valve clearance check, plugs, points, oil change, etc.) I noticed shiny metal shavings in the low areas of the heads underneath the valve covers and on the spark plugs.  The metal is extremely noticeable in direct sunlight.  The metal was probably about the width of a hair and no longer than 1mm in length as I recall.  I pulled the engine and began going through it.  Another thing I found was that the sludge trap was half full of solidified material (oil, dirt & metal).  So, I'm glad I was able to clean out the sludge trap too.  And, then I got way off track and did the filter pan mod thing.  Anyway, getting back to the cylinder thing...I'm an advocate of replacing the chrome bores whether there are signs of chrome flaking or not. I don't think running chrome bores are worth the risk of catastrophic engine falure.

However, I do have a friend with an Eldo and another with a T with chrome bores, these guys have no intentions of replacing the chrome bores.  My 3rd pal has a T3 and has just spent a small fortune on his bike recently (tires, alt & elect. upgrades, seat, paint & lights) but refuses to check cylinder condition.  Oh well, not my problem as they say.

[grebmrof]

My 3rd pal has a T3 and has just spent a small fortune on his bike recently (tires, alt & elect. upgrades, seat, paint & lights) but refuses to check cylinder condition.  Oh well, not my problem as they say.

Art:  " nie mój cyrk, nie moje małpy" -> "...not my circus, not my monkeys!"    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/not_my_circus,_not_my_monkeys

[Scout63]

I can’t imagine buying a chrome bore bike and not swapping cylinders before running it.  The procedure is fairly simple and gets you a top end refresh in the bargain.

I had a friend selling his v7 Sport who was going to get it running and take a video before listing.  I was kind of interested in the bike and we were about $2,000 apart. I told him that if he started the engine I would no longer be interested in it.

[Turin]

My take... Russian roulette. Gilardonis are cheap insurance and not a lot of $ for some peace of mind.

[sdcr]

So far, I’m the one and only bidder. If successful, Gilardonis are what I’ll do.

My take... Russian roulette. Gilardonis are cheap insurance and not a lot of $ for some peace of mind.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

My take... Russian roulette. Gilardonis are cheap insurance and not a lot of $ for some peace of mind.

+1 

[wrbix]

There’s also one (1970, 18k miles) currently listed on the Book of Faces…I’ve raised the same concern there - so far no response from seller.

[John Ulrich]

Knowledge is a wonderful thing.  The lack of is costly.

[sdcr]

Less than 24 hours to go on this Ambassador. The auction has been very quiet or the past few days, no more comments on the bore issue. Sitting at $1800.

[lucky phil]

Knowledge is a wonderful thing.  The lack of is costly.

Not great for peace of mind though. The more you know the greater the awareness of what can go wrong. I was definitely less anxious about things 30 years ago.

Phil




good image hosting sites

[sdcr]

Up to $4000 with a few hours to go. Since the chrome bore issue has been raised during the auction, surprised  that the bidders are going this high.

[sdcr]

Sold for $4000, chrome bores and all.

[vintagehoarder]

Results of Chrome bores

[guzziart]

The sludge trap of my '72 Eldo with 19k miles.  I bought the bike from the original owner.







So, imho, besides tossing on a couple Gilardoni's, one may want to pull the engine and check the sludge trap too.