H pipe advantages/disadvantages?

[Burkslaw]

2002 California stone. I'm thinking about replacing the original crossover muffler with a regular H pipe, hoping to gain access to the gearbox drain plug without having to drop the exhaust system next time, and maybe in addition get a little bit more enthusiastic exhaust note (my original exhaust system puts out about as much sound as my E=go electric lawnmower going uphill).
Will I need to reprogram the FI system? My exhaust headers are already quite blued and I'm sure it's running as lean as it can (although it performs flawlessly and doesn't seem to be overly hot). 

[bigbikerrick]

I added an H pipe, and punched out stock mufflers to my 2003 aluminum,without any changes to the fuel injection, and it ran fine. Have you taken a look at the plugs?
Rick

[Burkslaw]

I added an H pipe, and punched out stock mufflers to my 2003 aluminum,without any changes to the fuel injection, and it ran fine. Have you taken a look at the plugs?
Rick

Plugs look good, although reading plugs was easier with that good old deadly tetra-ethyl lead of yore.
Did you have to use any reducer/adapter to fit your mufflers to the H pipe?
Does your bike now sound better than my lawnmower?

[PeteS]

I added an H pipe, and punched out stock mufflers to my 2003 aluminum,without any changes to the fuel injection, and it ran fine. Have you taken a look at the plugs?
Rick

Same here. Has minimal effect of sound level or mapping. Saves weight and makes maintenance easier.

Pete

[Ncdan]

+1 on the H-pipe and open the baffles a bit. Great sound and much easier to get to the plug and less messy oil change.

[MGrego]

+1 on the H-pipe and open the baffles a bit. Great sound and much easier to get to the plug and less messy oil change.

Also my experience, have H pipe and LaFranconis installed on my '04 Cali without the need to re-tune.

[Vagrant]

If memory serves, you should have a drain that is accessible on the trans of an 02. My 01 does.
You lose a bit of torque with an H pipe gain a touch freer running in higher RPMS. If you have a big windshield it make a lot of tiring noise under you.

[grebmrof]

A CalVin I had came with an H pipe, the bike ran really crappy with it, a lot of popping and farting on decel...I changed back to the stock crossover and the bike ran much much better.  FWIW  YMMV

[Ncdan]

A CalVin I had came with an H pipe, the bike ran really crappy with it, a lot of popping and farting on decel...I changed back to the stock crossover and the bike ran much much better.  FWIW  YMMV

I also added the H pipe to my 07 CalVin and in this application it may be necessary to preform some mapping changes. Beetle worked with me for several months to complete a great map for the Calvin models.

[Gwilliam]

2002 California stone. I'm thinking about replacing the original crossover muffler with a regular H pipe, hoping to gain access to the gearbox drain plug without having to drop the exhaust system next time, and maybe in addition get a little bit more enthusiastic exhaust note (my original exhaust system puts out about as much sound as my E=go electric lawnmower going uphill).
Will I need to reprogram the FI system? My exhaust headers are already quite blued and I'm sure it's running as lean as it can (although it performs flawlessly and doesn't seem to be overly hot).

My 2001 California Stone evolved with an H pipe and drilled stock mufflers. This led to a Power Commander with an appropriate fuelling map. The air filter was replaced with a K&N in a lidless housing before the final stage of a pair of Lafranconi Riservato Competizioni mufflers and a different map in the Power Commander.
I'll put its "enthusiastic exhaust note" up against your electric lawnmower anytime!

[n3303j]

My '98 EV came with fishtails and an H pipe. It was painfully loud.
I found stock mufflers from a group member who "upgraded".
It was no longer painfully loud, but still a bit sharp.
I found a tumor from someone who "upgraded" th an H pipe.
The "tumor" reduces the higher frequencies in the exhaust note.
The bike now sounds like a motorcycle one would spend 8 hours on.

[s1120]

My 2001 California Stone evolved with an H pipe and drilled stock mufflers. This led to a Power Commander with an appropriate fuelling map. The air filter was replaced with a K&N in a lidless housing before the final stage of a pair of Lafranconi Riservato Competizioni mufflers and a different map in the Power Commander.
I'll put its "enthusiastic exhaust note" up against your electric lawnmower anytime!

My 02 stone metal came to me with a H pipe, Lafranconi mufflers, open airbox, and running like trash, Seems it had a PC on it, but they removed it for some reason. Slowly working up Beatle maps for it, and I started to adapt. It sounded AMAZING!!! Around town it was nice, but loner trips it could be way to annoying. I got a stock airbox lid to get rid of the intake drone some. I then found a center muffler, and that took the popping, and high pitched noise down. Now I have it with just the Lafranconi mufflers, and it sounds amazing, and I can ride it anywhere.

[Gwilliam]

My 02 stone metal came to me with a H pipe, Lafranconi mufflers, open airbox, and running like trash, Seems it had a PC on it, but they removed it for some reason. Slowly working up Beatle maps for it, and I started to adapt. It sounded AMAZING!!! Around town it was nice, but loner trips it could be way to annoying. I got a stock airbox lid to get rid of the intake drone some. I then found a center muffler, and that took the popping, and high pitched noise down. Now I have it with just the Lafranconi mufflers, and it sounds amazing, and I can ride it anywhere.

It doesn't surprise me that it ran so badly if the previous owner had removed the Power Commander. It must have been running very lean on the standard fuel map unless they had reflashed the ECU with a new map.
I have been struggling with mine recently following a failed TPS sensor a while back. Even with the Power Commander using a map appropriate for the installed mods, which it has used for years it has been very lean and unpleasant. I have adjusted the low engine/small throttle opening settings for the PC map which has helped a lot.
I have been told that the 15M ECU used on the bike can lose its idle mixture adjustment and go to a full lean setting, potentially causing a very lean mixture over the lower range of engine operation. I have yet to get it hooked up to Guzzidiag to check if this is the case with mine.

[lazlokovacs]

I've read somewhere that the h pipe actually robs you of mid range torque compared to the large stock crossover

[n3303j]

I'm curious if anyone has tried suctioning out the transmission oil either through the fill hole or the level check hole. I know some inboard diesel boats do pil changes through the dipstick hole that way. Wonder where an 1/8 bore plastic tube could reach?
Someone with a transmission on a bench and back cover off could answer this one easily.

[John A]

A disadvantage can happen at installation. If it’s in a bind to get it to fit, it will crack eventually. They will take some adjustment after some heat cycles sometimes. I use nickel based antisneeze on all the joints, the silver color blends in well.

[s1120]

I've read somewhere that the h pipe actually robs you of mid range torque compared to the large stock crossover

I was thinking that. To me it "felt" stronger down low after I installed the stock mid muffler. Im sure most of that was better fueling with it in place, and also the raspyness being less, and being more likely to use more throttle down low was allowing me to get the most out of what I have.

[PeteS]

Not sure anyone can draw a conclusion here. We are different, the bikes are different. I know of at least two different computers in the FI Cruisers P8 and 15M. No idea if there were more in the later bikes.
My experience with my ‘98 EV is like Gwilliam’s. H pipe, Dunstall mufflers, drilled out airbox, K&N, and a Power Commander.
Mid range was waaaaaaaaay stronger than stock. Pulled better with the stock 8/33 rear drive than a stock bike with a 7/33 than many were putting in. Mileage around 45 mpg. Tractable in 5th gear at 35 MPH.
You want quiet, get a Honda.

Pete

[Groover]

What does a high crossover pipe do, or those that sometimes have two? Under the engine (typical) and/or up high, front of engine.

[Kev m]

I saw this thread the other day and was thinking a bunch of little things that might be missed. All based on ~35k miles on an 00 Jackal.

* I replaced the crossover with an H-pipe for easier access to trans. I had no regrets.

* I don't recall losing any midrange or any significant running difference.

* I ran stock mufflers and it was maybe a little louder but I HATE LOUD BIKES and run stock mufflers on everything cause I'm give two craps about my neighbors. And it was NOT a significant difference.

* I needed ZERO engine/tuning tweaks with it. My Jackal always ran damn near perfectly. I only ever touched the TPS ONCE in all those miles/years and then it was the slightest tweak only to correct the occasional stumble on low hot idle.

* People should remember Cal-Vin on is NOT that same motor/fuel system as the Jackal/Stone. Different ECU, dual plug heads, and various internal engine specs (I'm presuming valve train etc) from the Breva 1100. So what applies to one probably doesn't the other.

That's all I got, carry on.

[John A]

Ace told me that on the dyno, the best was two crossovers. One a h pipe and the other a loop under the alternator. This was up to but not including the hydro engines . It’s what I run, Mistral head pipes with the crossover

[Gwilliam]

Not sure anyone can draw a conclusion here. We are different, the bikes are different. I know of at least two different computers in the FI Cruisers P8 and 15M. No idea if there were more in the later bikes.
My experience with my ‘98 EV is like Gwilliam’s. H pipe, Dunstall mufflers, drilled out airbox, K&N, and a Power Commander.
Mid range was waaaaaaaaay stronger than stock. Pulled better with the stock 8/33 rear drive than a stock bike with a 7/33 than many were putting in. Mileage around 45 mpg. Tractable in 5th gear at 35 MPH.
You want quiet, get a Honda.

Pete

I did the mods to my Stone 10+ years ago when the Power Commander was pretty much the only way to customise the fuelling map to suit the changes to the intake and exhaust.
Todd produced a series of maps for different states of tune that could be easily loaded into the Power Commander. He based these on the modifications that he had made to his stunning Jackal and quantified their effectiveness on a dyno.
I was very pleased with the significant increase in midrange performance of my Stone upon completion of the modifications and had no reason to touch it for several years.

Since suffering a TPS failure a year or two ago I have struggled to get it to run as well. I have tweaked the PC map at the bottom end to resolve an obviously lean condition.
I have today received a set of Lonelec cables so that hopefully I can connect up Guzzidiag and ensure that the original fuel map has retained its Idle CO Trim setting as I'm told that this can spontaneously change to a full lean setting. If I can reset this correctly then the upgraded PC map should once again produce the optimum fuelling for the engine.
At least that's the theory......