Thoughts on a BMW R90/6, R80, or other Airhead for next Do-Everything?

[Dirk_S]

The recent failure of my engine, regardless of what it is means a rebuild. I think it’s time for me to look at a different bike, and possibly new brand.

I’ve always been pretty attracted to the airhead boxers, and my good friend is a big BMW guy. I think one of these bikes would be better for sidecar use than a V7, so anybody with thoughts to share? I assume these guys don’t turn as sweetly as a Guzzi, but at least they’re shaft drive and parts are more readily available. One of these seem like they may be a better option for me right now than a V7 III. Cheaper, too. And I’ve already owned two 70s bikes.

[JJ]

I have owned and ridden: R75/6...R80RT...R1100S...R1100RT...and lastly, and R100RS "Motorport Edition"...and I can attest that they are fine bikes, overall.   

Prices, however, for clean, sorted, vintage airheads have gone through the roof in recent years...so shop around.

Good luck!

[PeteS]

Why not an older Guzzi? T3s are G5s would be a better choice. Handle better, better brakes and just as reliable and easy to work on.

Pete

[73 sport]

  I agree with Pete S. You have Guzzi experience . I think it is a more pleasant machine.

[Dirk_S]

Why not an older Guzzi? T3s are G5s would be a better choice. Handle better, better brakes and just as reliable and easy to work on.

But parts availability and the number of expert service resources are the great equalizers.

[Scout63]

I think an airhead makes a really good stablemate.  I’m partial to the R75/5 but a /6 or newer will get you better brakes and a five speed.  If you want to attach a sidecar, the earlier /2s are built for them and don’t have the light rear subframe of /5 and newer bikes.

[Dirk_S]

I just took a friends R75/6 for a short ride. I love how bikes feel with different motors. With the narrow  European bars, that R75 felt like it wanted to stay upright or steer on a dime, but I know I’m also just used to my Guzzi V7.

Curious—on the side, the bike feels pretty stinkin’ heavy compared to my V7 II. Is that a symptom of the weight distribution, or is the R75-R90/6 indeed that much heavier?

[Shorty]

If you are talking early Airhead R90/6, they have the same crap charging system as a Guzzi of the same period, with the same things needed to fix it to run extra lighting , heated clothing, etc. Also, the front disk brakes on those 70s Beemers were a PIA as compared to the later fitted Brembos ('83 onward as I recall?) There used to be concern about the valves on the airheads misbehaving on modern fuel, but I don't remember the details. I had an 74 R90/6  and an R750 of about that same era. If it were me, I'd not buy an  Airhead earlier than about an 1983, just to get the Brembos and improved valves (and cast wheels). The 950cc Guzzis of that era had more torque, a more rigid frame, with stiffer suspension. I have not shopped Beemer parts for years, but back in the day, there were more Guzzi parts outlets, and they were cheaper. Good luck!

[PeteS]

1982-1984 airheads had the bad valve seats which took out the valves. I suspect any still on the road with over 50K miles on them have had that rectified. Every year has its plusses and minus. Late 70s R100s had the strongest motors but heavy flywheels and ATE brakes. 80s bikes had lighter flywheels and Brembos but less power smaller carbs and lower compression ratios.

Pete

[Don G]

Find a California 1100 or a derivative, EV, Stone Jackal etc. much better suited to sidecar use, no wonder your dinky little small block failed they were not intended to be a truck.  You can get a decent 1100 Guzzi for cheap and they are a better than a Beemer any day  DonG.

[Chuck in Indiana]

You can get a decent 1100 Guzzi for cheap and they are a better than a Beemer any day  DonG.

this. I built a rig to do Route 66 with a boneyard Jackal and wrecked sidecar, and it was our "rally" transportation for quite a while. Dauntless makes sub frames for Tontis.

[Kev m]

I absolutely concur.

The smallblock was never the right tool for the job.

An Airhead could work, but I'm not convinced it would be much better, plus at this point it is so much older, so much more expensive for decent condition etc. it's a non-starter.

A Tonti Cali, especially something like a Jackal would be perfect. More modern, more reliable, more stout, cheaper. Really what's not to want (flaccid whale penis tank)?

[Dirk_S]

Appreciate the (biased) feedback :)

My issues with going big block Guzzi is that I don’t just want to ride with a sidecar on nice roads. I still want that capability to do mild/mid-level off-road exploration, both with a sidecar, and solo. A 500 lb bike with not much in parts or local expert service network just doesn’t seem smart for my needs. If I were only road and only sidecar—absolutely, I would still be looking at Guzzis.

[guido guzzi]

A Quota might be your best bet... Although it's more of a Spine frame.
The Tonti frame is FAR stronger than the /5 and newer BMWs.
Kinda rare but look for a '/2' BMW with an R100 motor...

[PeteS]

One of the reasons I ride a Guzzi and I suspect many here agree is because they don’t require expert service. My 76 LeMans had a coil go bad. I was able to ride it and replaced it with a Lucas coil and got home. Thats the closest it came to a break down. Similarly my EV had a fuel injection lead fail. I was still able to run on one cylinder until I discovered the problem. 140k total miles and it never left me on the side of the road.
My ‘84 airhead had to have valves and seats replaced, electronic “points” failed three times, diode board melted, rear clutch arm broke. All required a tow.
I sold the BMW and still have the LeMans.

Pete

[Kev m]

Appreciate the (biased) feedback :)

My issues with going big block Guzzi is that I don’t just want to ride with a sidecar on nice roads. I still want that capability to do mild/mid-level off-road exploration, both with a sidecar, and solo. A 500 lb bike with not much in parts or local expert service network just doesn’t seem smart for my needs. If I were only road and only sidecar—absolutely, I would still be looking at Guzzis.

Hmmm, off-road - so you want larger and more stout suspension? (Cali 1100 still applies - as might a Airhead GS). Though I would think the chair might need some adjustment/upgrade as well no?

Parts? - Look I know you CAN get a lot of airhead parts still. But you can locally? Is it really just that you have a BMW wrench to support your efforts (no shame in that game, just curious).

Because (and I've owned 2 airheads, ridden/worked on more) and the difference in parts "availability" doesn't mean a thing to me as much as the difference in the two platforms, not to mention the age difference. I mean a Jackal is almost an antique at this point, but an airhead is comparatively approaching horse and buggy status.

No matter - have fun whatever you pursue.

[Ncdan]

If a sidecar rig is the direction you wish to go then IMHO the proper bike to hook the car to should be one of the heavy tourers.
Older GW or HD FLH models will certainly do the job.
Parts for either are cheap and abundance and these older big boys can be bought cheap.

[Kev m]

If a sidecar rig is the direction you wish to go then IMHO the proper bike to hook the car to should be one of the heavy tourers.
Older GW or HD FLH models will certainly do the job.
Parts for either are cheap and abundance and these older big boys can be bought cheap. I’m

I wouldn't hesitate to put a chair on just about any HD - heck a rubbermount or solidmount Sporty would do the trick. But I figured he didn't want to go that obvious a direction.

That said:

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=116084.msg0#new

Can't beat that as a starting point for a bargain price.

[Dirk_S]

I think a clarification over what’s preferred/needed is perhaps appropriate:

I would rather have a mid-size solo bike that can do a bit of everything on various terrain—not necessarily great, but like my Subaru Forester—than eat up the slab with a sidecar.

Sidecars have been on mid-size bikes for many years. Granted—50 years ago, frames were made for sidecars, but hey—my frame isn’t what gave out. A big, stout bike, solo or with a sidecar, will easily take on the highway with gear, but I don’t really need that, and I don’t want to compromise the capability to explore off-road as I have enjoyed thus far.

The R80 G/S speaks to me, and I think some can see that I was slowly turning my V7 toward that do-everything mindset.

Parts—if anything, I know I can’t look for another V7 II. I imagine parts availability is much better for the IIIs at this point.

I’ll definitely concede that an engine rebuild is an engine rebuild. But I know there are mechanics out there who are hesitant to work on a Guzzi. If I had a shed/garage, I think I’d be all about learning to do this stuff myself, but New England is just not hot enough a region for these bikes. I’ve got one dealer an hour away who prefers to talk Ducatis and Aprilias , and one Boston shop that I just learned about. No solo mechanics that I can think of.

Also, I’ve wanted to own an airhead. I figure this is a good chance to dive in, especially with my local riding mate who’s owned 30+ Beemers, ridden over 300,000 miles, has lots of sidecar experience, worked years ago at one of the biggest dealers in the country, and knows where to get the parts. Just helps to have that local, tangible support, whereas with the Guzzi, it’s this forum. Hope that’s understandable.

[Dilliw]

My friend just picked up an R75/6 that was an estate sell.  Very clean so you can find them if you look and if the right person passes on :).  After riding with him for a his shakedown ride I'd still recommend something more modern like the V7 or V85.

[n3303j]

Had 3 BMWs before falling in love with Moto Guzzi.
BMW also had their weak points in certain production years..
So switching Marque isn't a guarantee of reliability.

Thinking back to previous posts; Haven't you ridden two Urals and one V7 to the point of failure within the past year or so?
Maybe time to reexamine your relationship with motorcycles in general?

I'd also be really tempted to change my living situation to a condition that would allow multiple motorcycles and a workspace sufficient to meet their needs. It's easier then trying to make one bike fit all your needs.

Motorcycles are demanding mistresses. If you don't meet their needs they do not hesitate to punish your neglectful behavior.

[Dirk_S]

Thinking back to previous posts; Haven't you ridden two Urals and one V7 to the point of failure within the past year or so?
Maybe time to reexamine your relationship with motorcycles in general?

Just one Ural that broke down due to a bad batch of rocker arms with that specific year.

And yes—I believe I’ve made it clear that I need to be more in tune with the capability threshold of a mid-size tug. As mentioned, I’m willing to concede more to those limitations rather than going big.

[n3303j]

I've got a friend in Vermont who has an R60/2 with an R100 engine and dual front disks mounted to a sidecar.
He's been talking about selling it.

[Moparnut72]

I would think that /2 is the ideal. I am also a former /2 owner. The only issue with mine was that it was a 500. When I moved to Colo it was too low in power for the altitude and the passes. The 100 motor fixes that.
kk

[AJ Huff]

When I first got on my Cal Spec I thought it was HUGE coming from my Ambassador. But it really isn't all that big. Plenty of power, quite nimble really. Diminutive next to a Road King. You've shown you have plenty of mechanical ability. Don't look past a Tonti bike without sitting on one, riding one. I think you'd be surprised.

I get what you're saying though. I have zero mechanical ability so the time.for keeping my California is limited. Unless I can find a reasonably nearby shop.

Now if you just want a BMW because you want one, I get it. I got list of those bikes starting with Triumph and a cool BMW single I dream about (never gonna happen..see above about my mechanical ability).

-AJ

[Dirk_S]

Now if you just want a BMW because you want one, I get it.

Honestly, that argument has about as equal footing as my other points. I’m 40 and single with a low moderate income, and don’t have the luxury of owning multiple bikes. So if given the choice of sticking with one brand for the rest of my life or trying something different that I’ve been curious about and not losing a ton of benefits, why not?

[cookiemech]

I think it would be worth following up with Ron (n3303j) to see if his friend is really in the selling mood. A /2 with the mods mentioned might just be the most pleasant rig around. Good brakes, a frame designed to handle a sidecar, and an engine with enough juice to pull it around.

Disclaimer:  I have four BMWs, so I am a fan. Also a Ural. Not as big a fan of Urals.

[xackley]

An r60/2 is made for side car.
My r69 performs well on the interstate and scrambling through the woods. They are so simple there is no worry about a break down that can't be fixed with an adjustable wrench, vice grip, and 4 way screw driver. The oem tool kit would be a good addition :)
Stick to the US highways and state/county roads in the West, as the interstate speeds out there would be a little to much.

Don

[Chuck in Indiana]

Appreciate the (biased) feedback :)

My issues with going big block Guzzi is that I don’t just want to ride with a sidecar on nice roads. I still want that capability to do mild/mid-level off-road exploration, both with a sidecar, and solo. A 500 lb bike with not much in parts or local expert service network just doesn’t seem smart for my needs. If I were only road and only sidecar—absolutely, I would still be looking at Guzzis.

Long answer deleted. Good luck with that..  <shrug>

[Tom H]

If you want an off road sidecar rig that can be used in some rough terrain. You might search out the European side car race bikes and watch a few races. It's Moto X with a sidecar. I watched a few of the races on TV. Jumps and the hole 9 yards. Maybe that is what your looking for???

As much as I hate to say this. Maybe a Ural sidecar rig is the bike?? I don't know the models, but some used to at least have the sidecar wheel driven. That to me says off road use and crappy conditions.

JMHO,
Tom