Author Topic: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge  (Read 948 times)

Online Gliderjohn

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Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« on: September 21, 2022, 11:53:46 AM »
Need thoughts on my 2011 Norge clutch.
When parking for the night Saturday evening I had difficulty finding neutral which is unusual for the Norge. Also noticed my handle had more initial free play. Next day rode 680 miles with problems at time finding neutral but no shifting problems. When I arrived home with the clutch pulled all the way in I could feel  that the clutch was not totally disengaged and could not get it into neutral until I shut off the bike.
This is a hydraulic clutch and have no experience with them. No help with a general internet search. Cannot see any leaks but where do I all need to look? Have not opened the MC yet to check fluid level. With the bike on the center stand and the bars centralized there is a bit of a tilt of the MC. Is this the proper position and okay to remove the cap without spillage?
GliderJohn
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Offline Rich A

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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2022, 12:11:16 PM »
Sounds as though the hydraulic system just needs to be bled.

Rich A

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2022, 12:27:49 PM »
If you have never bled it, it's time. Some do it twice a year. Bleeder is next to frame under seat, long SS hose w/rubber cap.
Then again it may be time for a Cal14 clutch, some come apart in center ring, it shifts off center & comes undone.
Tilt MC so lid is horizontal, then put it back.
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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2022, 01:19:13 PM »
I usually start by making sure the piston in the master cylinder is retracting all the way back upon release of the lever.
Take the lever off and clean/grease the moving parts. While the lever is off, get a piece of WOODEN dowell and push the piston in, make sure it comes all the way back out with a clack.
To check the function, fill the reservoir as normal an COMPLETELY COVER your bike with a disposable cloth.
Actuate the lever and make sure you can see a small fountain of fluid produce in the reservoir as you let the lever out.
If the piston does not fully return, it will not expose the communication port that feeds the system from the reservoir.
All the ďbleedingĒ in the world will not result in expulsion of air if youíve not checked and ascertained proper function of this bit.
The excessive play in your lever, leads me in the direction of a non retracting m/c piston.
Once youíve determined this bit is working, go ahead and bleed as old mate suggests. If you take that long bleed hose and attach a squeeze bottle of fluid to it, you can GENTLY pump fluid from low point to high and at the same time, youíll be able to witness the level in the reservoir rising.
You will now know that you have eliminated a non retracting piston as a cause.
Norges are absolutely murder on their clutch fluid, itís well documented.
I do mine every 20,000 kÖ(that makes 9 times).

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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2022, 01:19:13 PM »

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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2022, 01:22:13 PM »
Need thoughts on my 2011 Norge clutch.
Have not opened the MC yet to check fluid level.
The poor bastard isnít just out of fluid is itÖ.?

Online Gliderjohn

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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2022, 01:27:01 PM »
Thanks for the help and comments from all. No, I haven't checked or done anything yet as I was hoping to get some guidance here before diving in. Probably tomorrow as I have my annual "wellness visit with my doc this afternoon.. At least I now some information to start with.
GliderJohn
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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2022, 01:31:12 PM »
Don't be embarrassed John, the first time I bled the hydraulic clutch on my 07 Norge was this spring. Didn't have any problems with the clutch and the fluid looked pretty good for being in there for 15 years. 
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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2022, 01:32:39 PM »
Thanks for the help and comments from all. No, I haven't checked or done anything yet as I was hoping to get some guidance here before diving in. Probably tomorrow as I have my annual "wellness visit with my doc this afternoon.. At least I now some information to start with.
GliderJohn
Well, look after yourself first GJÖ.
Keep your bank angle and attitude constant and always set the trimÖ.
But I digress.

Certainly just top up the fluid if required and if that works, for heavenís sake donít just button it up and leave it.
Those Norges contaminate their fluid like buggery, so if youíve found the cause, dump it and re fill with clean stuff.
Do the brakes while youíre there.

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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2022, 01:33:29 PM »
Don't be embarrassed John, the first time I bled the hydraulic clutch on my 07 Norge was this spring. Didn't have any problems with the clutch and the fluid looked pretty good for being in there for 15 years.
Son of a mongooseÖ!

Offline lucian

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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2022, 01:39:46 PM »
Also, on the clutch lever the little rod that pushes the master cylinder in is adjustable. There is a small grub screw that locks it in position. You need a proper fitting allen wrench to loosen that set screw and you then can unscrew the plunger rod  a little bit to lengthen it. Start with 1/4 to 1/2 of a turn. It purpose is to compensate for wear in the mechanical side of the clutch actuation and makes up for travel lost to wear. Similar to the old school cable end adjustments. If the fluid side of things is ok , it may be time to lengthen the plunger a tad.

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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2022, 01:45:25 PM »
Also, on the clutch lever the little rod that pushes the master cylinder in is adjustable. There is a small grub screw that locks it in position. You need a proper fitting allen wrench to loosen that set screw and you then can unscrew the plunger rod  a little bit to lengthen it. Start with 1/4 to 1/2 of a turn. It purpose is to compensate for wear in the mechanical side of the clutch actuation and makes up for travel lost to wear. Similar to the old school cable end adjustments. If the fluid side of things is ok , it may be time to lengthen the plunger a tad.
Now that you mention that Lucian, I reckon mine could do with same.
I can pull the clutch in with the bike in first gear and easily spin the wheel by hand on the centrestand, but reducing that play might be nice..

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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2022, 02:37:55 PM »
Check that the top screws on the clutch reservoir holding the plate are not loose, you might be inhaling a bit of air into the reservoir, of course might check the fluid too while you're there!   Bleeding is super easy if you attach a Speed Bleeder to the hose under the seat...3 or 4 pumps and you're done.
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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2022, 02:41:45 PM »
Check that the top screws on the clutch reservoir holding the plate are not loose, you might be inhaling a bit of air into the reservoir, of course might check the fluid too while you're there!   Bleeding is super easy if you attach a Speed Bleeder to the hose under the seat...3 or 4 pumps and you're done.
That would be inconsequential Paul.
Itís only air that gets into the pressurised part of the system that contributes to lack of performance.

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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2022, 04:01:58 PM »
That would be inconsequential Paul.
Itís only air that gets into the pressurised part of the system that contributes to lack of performance.

One would hope, although I had this happen to me on a long trip, found the screws loose and it was causing me to get only about 1/2 the normal pressure and causing shifting issues.  Once tightened up, no more issues...but hey, what works for me may not for someone else!

New fluid, speed bleeder, flush the system, tight screws...and Bob's your uncle!

 :thumb:
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Online Gliderjohn

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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2022, 06:48:42 PM »
The poor Norge is due for a good going over this winter. Really need to get me a lift table. Getting too old to be sitting or laying on the floor.
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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2022, 07:39:56 PM »
The poor Norge is due for a good going over this winter. Really need to get me a lift table. Getting too old to be sitting or laying on the floor.
GliderJohn
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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2022, 11:00:51 PM »
The good news once you get cracking is that it's they're simplist thing on the planet to access for bleeding with the remote bleed nipple fitted  :thumb:
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Offline Stratodisaster

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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2022, 08:38:58 PM »
Why would you need to bleed a sealed hydraulic system if it hasnít been low on fluid or lines/fittings loosened allowing air to enter.
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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2022, 09:10:34 PM »
Why would you need to bleed a sealed hydraulic system if it hasnít been low on fluid or lines/fittings loosened allowing air to enter.
That does seem a reasonable thing to think.

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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2022, 09:45:43 PM »
Why would you need to bleed a sealed hydraulic system if it hasnít been low on fluid or lines/fittings loosened allowing air to enter.

     I don't have a Norge, but I imagine it's very similar to the Griso I have.

     Reading up on the hydraulic clutch, there's been much discussion that the fluid tends to go bad rather quickly compared to the brakes, and cause debris (heat issue from routing? idk).

     Sure enough when I bled my Griso clutch, the first 2-3 pumps of fluid had small bits of black material, it was nice to replace most of the old fluid with new.

     fwiw
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Online Gliderjohn

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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2022, 09:55:10 PM »
From 80CX100:
Quote
  I don't have a Norge, but I imagine it's very similar to the Griso I have.

     Reading up on the hydraulic clutch, there's been much discussion that the fluid tends to go bad rather quickly compared to the brakes, and cause debris (heat issue from routing? idk).

     Sure enough when I bled my Griso clutch, the first 2-3 pumps of fluid had small bits of black material, it was nice to replace most of the old fluid with new.

     fwiw
That makes sense since I was running 80-85 in 90 degree+ heat. Looking at tackling it this week.
GliderJohn
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Offline auzziguzzi

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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2022, 03:21:13 AM »
Watching this thread with interest since Iím currently experiencing a similar issue with 2006 Breva 1100 including dirty fluid despite recent replacement, no air in pressurised line, no external leaks, no loss of fluid but clutch failing to disengage cleanly.  Some good tips to follow up. 

Not wanting to thread steal so will butt out now Ö
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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2022, 03:42:08 AM »
Watching this thread with interest since Iím currently experiencing a similar issue with 2006 Breva 1100 including dirty fluid despite recent replacement, no air in pressurised line, no external leaks, no loss of fluid but clutch failing to disengage cleanly.  Some good tips to follow up. 

Not wanting to thread steal so will butt out now Ö
Your topic ie relevant, no need to butt out I think.

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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2022, 01:24:07 PM »
I had the same issue on my Stelvio.  Bled the system and it has been fine for the past two years.  Due to bleed it again.
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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2022, 07:41:29 PM »
Popped the lid and appears to have enough fluid but is dirty so needs changed out. Also the handle appears to just barely engage the little rod that lucian mentioned so may need to adjust that also.
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Offline Kaladin

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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2022, 09:27:45 AM »
I just want to say that having the bleed port under the seat is extremely convenient.
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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2022, 12:57:31 PM »
Changed out the fluid which went quite easy and all is well again. The old fluid was not a pretty sight.
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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2022, 07:54:18 PM »
Good News!!  :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2022, 08:33:16 PM »
Does anyone else have to clean corrosion off their under the seat bleeder? In the past Iíve cleaned the white to green crust off a couple times a year, a very messy process, crap goes flying everywhere when I take a brass brush to it. This spring I coated it with Vaseline and put a small ziplock bag around it so itís not as bad. My theory is I must have a ground short someplace that the braided line is picking up stray voltage from. Itís been this way from day one almost 10 years now. Unless anyone has a better theory thatís what Iím going with. By the way I havenít noticed any electrical issues I did replace the battery, first year I got it with a sealed type with its own brand of tender ( canít recall name brand now) itís on a tender most of the time itís not ridden.
 Sorry to hijack the thread but since the conversation included the use of the bleeder, I thought Iíd ask.
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Offline Kaladin

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Re: Hydraulic clutch concerns, questions on Norge
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2022, 10:14:38 AM »
Does anyone else have to clean corrosion off their under the seat bleeder? In the past Iíve cleaned the white to green crust off a couple times a year,.

Sounds like the battery is emitting some sulfuric acid which is causing the corrosion. 

kaladin
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