Changing to Neutral at a Stop Light?

[pat80flh]

Me too for the put her in neutral camp. Mostly a habit cause you weren't putting a Shovel in neutral once you're stopped.

 The guys that say they're in gear so they can avoid a car rear ending them are the same ones that say they "laid her down on purpose"

[cowtownchemist]

For me it depends on the length of the red light.  Short ones I sometimes leave it in gear.  Long ones I put it in neutral.  Mainly so I can relax and don't have to hold the clutch the whole time.  I read somewhere that for the wet clutches its no big deal to leave it in gear at lights, but its better to use neutral when you can with the dry ones.

[Alfetta]

humm....

Why is it so difficult...  careful lift from first.... blip of green light... clicks into 2nd.... $%^#&# biscuits...  careful push down... blip of green light.... clicks into first... $%^#&# biscuits...
repeat until signal has changed, launch in second...

[Anomaly]

humm....

Why is it so difficult...  careful lift from first.... blip of green light... clicks into 2nd.... $%^#&# biscuits...  careful push down... blip of green light.... clicks into first... $%^#&# biscuits...
repeat until signal has changed, launch in second...

The first honest post in this thread....

[Kaladin]

In the last couple of days I am becoming more adapt at getting it into neutral.

But, how often does the throw-out bearing go bad?

And why doesn't the wet clutch have the same issue?

kaladin

[Alfetta]

I read somewhere that for the wet clutches its no big deal to leave it in gear at lights, but its better to use neutral when you can with the dry ones.

Wet clutch run in a bath of oil, along with the trough out bearing, so non-issue.

Dry clutch suffers from a much longer history....
early cars used oil impregnated bearing material, like bronze of phenolics... these are rubbing surfaces that did wear-out over time (and not a long time),  This type of bearing was used up to the early 60's but some went longer (like Renault Dauphine)  These were later replaced with sealed rolling element designs and they typically outlasted multiple clutches.  This type is still used today in standard transmission cars and trucks (and im guessing a Guzzi)

There are of coarse some exceptions, my '95 3/4 ton Chevy used steel balls in a plastic housing, that was activated by a plastic hydraulic master and a plastic slave cylinder coupled by a plastic line...    ALL CRAP !

[Old Jock]

humm....

Why is it so difficult...  careful lift from first.... blip of green light... clicks into 2nd.... $%^#&# biscuits...  careful push down... blip of green light.... clicks into first... $%^#&# biscuits...
repeat until signal has changed, launch in second...

Hilarious and scarily accurate

[Huzo]

humm....

Why is it so difficult...  careful lift from first.... blip of green light... clicks into 2nd.... $%^#&# biscuits...  careful push down... blip of green light.... clicks into first... $%^#&# biscuits...
repeat until signal has changed, launch in second...

Am I the only person that cannot understand the point here ?

[n3303j]

Am I the only person that cannot understand the point here ?

The rider keeps blowing past the neutral detent (and cursing) and is repeatedly cycling between first and second as he sits at the light.

I use the heel and toe simultaneously on the heel & toe shifter to select gears (and neutrals) with precision.

[Huzo]

The rider keeps blowing past the neutral detent (and cursing) and is repeatedly cycling between first and second as he sits at the light.

I use the heel and toe simultaneously on the heel & toe shifter to select gears (and neutrals) with precision.

Ahhh ok…

[n3303j]

Being in First with clutch disengaged has saved me from one rear end collision. I heard the squealing tires and did a fast exit. The sleepy rider who was following got it stopped in the position I had occupied a second previously.

But if there's a couple of solid vehicles stopped behind me and the light has any duration I'll select neutral.

At least on the V11, T3 and Ural replacing a throw out bearing is no big deal. Pull the cotter on the clutch lever retaining pin. Remove the lever and pull the throw out bearing out the back of the transmission and slide in a new one. All this is done with a fully assembled bike on the center stand (sidestand would work too). 20 minutes out of your life.

[Moparnut72]

The detents on my Guzzis are a lot softer than other bikes I have ridden. It just takes a gentle touch. If the clutch is mal-adjusted all bets are off. I really like the clutch and transmission in my V7lll, they were also excellent in my departed Audace.
kk

[mr_pacman]

I usually keep it in gear at the light with the clutch level pulled in. I only do this because I find it very difficult to go from Neutral to 1st gear when the bike is first started and it was just habit for me to keep it in gear at lights for fear of not being able to get it in gear once the light goes green. I'm going to play around with going from neutral to 1st once the bike is warmed up and see if that helps out. I've also read on here that putting a bit of pressure on the shifter before you pull in the clutch cable might help it find 1st.

[mhershon]

Evidently, few of us posting here rode British motorcycles in those thrilling days of yesteryear. If you attempted to ride your Triumph, BSA or what-have-you across town and held the clutch released at the first stoplight, you no longer HAD a clutch as you continued your ride. So you waited at lights in neutral every time. You found that neutral before you came to a stop. It formed like a habit deep down in your soul...and decades after you rode your last bike with the shift lever on the right, you could NOT sit at a light with the clutch disengaged. Not for love, nor for money.

[MerleLowe]

This topic is just too tempting to NOT weigh in on.

I am in the "put it in neutral" camp.

Like many oldsters here, I was taught to put it in neutral based on the theory of not wearing out the throwout bearing on a car/truck. Same logic applies with a motorcycle, which DOES have a throwout bearing of sorts.

But imagine yourself sitting at the head of the line with cross-traffic in front of you, on a dynamic system with 60+ HP of latent energy being held back by your squeezed hand, and the clutch cable/hyd line:

A. Frays and snaps that last wire that kept it operational
B. Looses the crimped ball-end because it was defective from the manufacturer
C. Hyd clutch line fails under pressure at a weak point that has been weakening for a long time with no symptoms
D. You have a sudden muscle spasm, stroke, or any other malady that causes you to release the clutch lever

As we say in the aircraft biz: Bad things happen fast.

At idle there's only enough power to keep the engine ticking over.  If the cable breaks it will just stall.  Maybe it'll lurch and you fall over.

Does anyone have data available on bearing failures?

[mr_pacman]

Evidently, few of us posting here rode British motorcycles in those thrilling days of yesteryear. If you attempted to ride your Triumph, BSA or what-have-you across town and held the clutch released at the first stoplight, you no longer HAD a clutch as you continued your ride. So you waited at lights in neutral every time. You found that neutral before you came to a stop. It formed like a habit deep down in your soul...and decades after you rode your last bike with the shift lever on the right, you could NOT sit at a light with the clutch disengaged. Not for love, nor for money.

I'm going to test the bike going from neutral to first when it's warm and see what the success rate is. When cold and first starting up, getting the bike from N to 1st is a chore. I select 1st, hear a slight click, release clutch and nothing. I go back to N, try to get into first with no luck. I rock the bike back and forth and it eventually goes in. This is why I usually stay in 1st gear with the clutch lever in at lights as I'm terrified of going to neutral, light turns green and I can't get it back into first and someone rear ends me. 

Perhaps it will go back into first better once everything is warmed up

[guzzisteve]

This is when the clutch cable usually breaks, has happened to me 3 times while waiting for a lite.

"62000, had the lites against me all the way"(Bud Lite Commercial from 80's) "How many lites in the sky?"

[guzziart]

My useless 2¢ worth...

I'm in the neutral until traffic signal turns green camp, mostly out of habit and to prevent excessive wear on drive line components designed for intermittent duty.  I try to be aware of what is happening behind me when I'm waiting for a light to change.  So the car behind you is stopped....what about the car behind that car? And on and on and on. 

If I were waiting for a signal to go green, was in gear (or not) and realized I was about to get rearended my hopes would be to determine an exit strategy that gets me out of harms way without putting me in cross traffic (against the traffic signal).  I have not read or heard of someone (time permitting) avoiding a rear ender (yet).

Last May I was rear ended at a red traffic signal.  In retrospect, I'm glad I didn't see it coming, I would have probably tensed up and made my recovery more difficult.  And, my options for and exit were slim if I did realize I was about to get hit.  The intersection had offset roads coming into it.  On my right there was a building on the corner that was a width of a sidewalk from the road I was on...basically a blind corner where on coming traffic from the right could not be seen.  The other road into this offset intersection was below grade and rose up steeply to the intersection making it difficult to see traffic coming from that direction.  I can only imagine the world of hurt had I realized I was about to get hit, moved into the intersection not knowing what was coming from the right or left that was trying (speeding) to make it through a stale green light or hard yellow.

Oh well, getting back to the original post...I'm for neutral but for those who like to hold it at a light, I say whatever floats your boat.

Also, in the 50+years of riding I have fortunately never had a clutch cable nor hydraulics failure.

To all, a safe,  healthy, happy, properous riding season!
Art

[wirespokes]

I'm in neutral at lights too. The Bassa neutral, for some reason, can be hard to find. But finding first from neutral has never been an issue with any of my bikes.

I try to stop off-set from the vehicle ahead just to avoid being squished if it comes to that. I have been rear-ended (in a cage) when the car behind me was rear-ended and in turn bumped me.

I'd rather not wear the throw-out bearing and put extra strain on the clutch cable. If I need to get out of there quickly, flicking into first takes only a moment. But when I was rear-ended, I had no clue it was about to happen.

[n3303j]

My
[SNIP]I have not read or heard of someone (time permitting) avoiding a rear ender (yet).
[SNIP]
Art

Riding lead with a friend a few years back I was stopped for a red light and I heard the squeal of tires on pavement. Grabbed throttle and dumped the clutch. Thank goodness no cross traffic. Stopped across the street and looked back. He was parked where I had been stopped. Being in first gear saved me that one time.

 I'm usually in neutral to save the throwout and thrust bearings in the system.

[John Croucher]

Personal choice and very dependent on the situation.  In Pinellas County Florida, the stop lights are from 3 to 5 minutes.  I turn the engine off while waiting. Get comfortable, send a couple of text message, check the weather, order Uber Eats and clean the wind screen.  Life is short, make the most of it.   

[MerleLowe]

Are these bearings an issue with machines used in heavy urban traffic?  Lot more time with load on the bearing just from shifting alone.

[n3303j]

No one has mentioned that disengaging the clutch places the thrust bearing at the front of the crankshaft under load. Wonder how long that bearing lasts?

[rocker59]

I'm going to test the bike going from neutral to first when it's warm and see what the success rate is. When cold and first starting up, getting the bike from N to 1st is a chore. I select 1st, hear a slight click, release clutch and nothing. I go back to N, try to get into first with no luck. I rock the bike back and forth and it eventually goes in. This is why I usually stay in 1st gear with the clutch lever in at lights as I'm terrified of going to neutral, light turns green and I can't get it back into first and someone rear ends me. 

Perhaps it will go back into first better once everything is warmed up

With clutch lever pulled in, press down on the gear lever and keep it pressed down, then slowly let out about 1/3 of the clutch travel.  The bike will slip into 1st gear.

[rocker59]

I mostly keep the clutch lever pulled in while stopped at lights, and have never had a clutch or bearing issue in nearly thirty years of riding Guzzis.

I believe it is safer to be in gear and ready to go, if needed.

I will occasionally slip it into neutral at a light, if the wait is long, and there is a long line of cars behind me.  If no cars, or a few cars are behind me, I'm leaving it in 1st and watching the mirrors.

[tris]

Enter the Hendon Shuffle

Hendon is where the police motorcyclists are trained in the UK and I believe that this is still current

Essentially when stopped you have the bike out of gear and held stationary with the foot brake and left foot on the ground

To pull away you hold the bike with the hard brake, switch feet (hence the shuffle) to engage the gear and pull away

https://longrider.co.uk/blog/2012/08/25/starting-stopping-and-thoughts-on-the-hendon-shuffle/

[Guzzistajohn]

I always go to neutral, if I don't my hands go to sleep hanging on the the ape hangers. 

[Huzo]

Jeez I had no idea it was so complicated..
My ‘07 Norge has 220,000 km and the clutch has never seen the light of day, because I do this..

Roll up to the light and at about walking pace, snick it into neutral and do the last couple of metres on gentle front brake with your right foot skimming the surface.
Leave your left foot hovering near the gear lever, but UNDER it, not above, this is so there is no delay if you need a gear immediately.
When you go to engage first, wait a couple of seconds before engaging and it will go in silently, then slide the clutch out at about 2,500 rpm and apply the throttle when the clutch is “home”.
As for the uneven firing intervals (not order), you can carry a couple of hundred rpm on the throttle, but I don’t bother.

[Huzo]

No one has mentioned that disengaging the clutch places the thrust bearing at the front of the crankshaft under load. Wonder how long that bearing lasts?

Does it..?

[n3303j]

You are applying the pressure to compress the springs against the pockets in the flywheel. Flywheel presses on the crankshaft. Crankshaft absorbs the thrust.