Tires-radial vs. bias

[rbond]

I am in the process of changing my spoke wheels on my 2012 V7C to 2016 Stone cast wheels. I want to put new tires on, but am wondering if there is a great enough difference (improvement) to going to radial tires. I have Conti Go's on right now and very happy with them. But I am looking at Michelin Road Classics (bias) or Conti Road Attacks (radial). Any thoughts?

[Vagrant]

Do a search here. It will keep you reading for a week.

[Sye]

Conti road attacks are hard to beat. Great tyre wet or dry. Stick like sh1t to a blanket and we'll recommended. 👍

[jhem68]

Conti RA 111's were NLA when I was looking for replacements for my v7lll Milano last month. And I thought that those sizes weren't offered in the replacement RA IV.

[Juan1]

On the topic of availability, I currently have RA3's on order from Summit Racing.  Been waiting a month for the expected ship date to arrive. Just three more days!

If you do some dirt trail riding, stick with bias ply.  If you ride street only, radials are supposed to be better, especially if you ride aggressively.  If you are a chill rider on the street, the advantages of radials won't matter.

[Kev m]

I stick with the Bias plys on my bikes that come with them.

I've tried switching in the past and the better stick was negligible, while the increased wear was noticable.

I've done a track day on a smallblock with bias plys. I can't see ME ever needing more on the street.

So I've currently got Michelin Road Classics on the V7 Stone. I'm very happy.

But literally YMMV.

[mechanicsavant]

As I’ve noted on this forum previously, I’m a huge fan of radials on a V7 . Possibly the best improvement made to the chassis was the installation of Ra III’s on my V7II & V7/850 . I ride 90% tarmac &the rest dirt road . I’ve opted for the ZR speed rating where available. Not that I’ll ever use the capability, but ya get a tire built to a slightly higher standard.

[Dirk_S]

Is my observation accurate that MOST bias-ply tires are tube-type, while ALL radials are tubeless?

[Kev m]

Is my observation accurate that MOST bias-ply tires are tube-type, while ALL radials are tubeless?

No.

I've not come across a tire that REQUIRES a tube-type tire on any of my bikes that didn't have spoke (tube-type) wheels.

They all can be run tubeless with cast wheels.

Maybe there's exceptions with the types of dual-sport tires I don't use. Can't say about them. But anything I've ever had on a BMW, Guzzi, Harley, etc. that was the case.

[Jack Straw]

I had a set of Bridgestone BT 46 on my V7III and was very happy.  After 5000 miles I switched to Conti RA 3.  Slightly smoother ride, incredible grip and response.  A friend with the same bike and tires reported 7000 miles on his RA 3 rear.

The RA 3 is now discontinued.  The RA 4 is not as yet available in V7III sizes.

I would not say radial plies are always better but in my recent experience I'm impressed and hope the RA 4 sizes arrive.

[mhershon]

I did the same switch on my first-series V7 Special - spoked wheels to cast. The purpose was to be able to run tires without tubes. I assume that is your purpose too. Do NOT assume that the cast rims are ready to accept the tires without tubes and the seal between the tire and rim will be perfect. When Guzzi ships the bikes with cast wheels, there are tubes in the tires. The rims are rough inside. My front rim has had to be wire-brushed three times to remove roughness and corrosion so the tire will seal. Take the time to make sure the rim is clean and smooth or you may have a frustrating slow leak.

[Kev m]

Do NOT assume that the cast rims are ready to accept the tires without tubes and the seal between the tire and rim will be perfect. When Guzzi ships the bikes with cast wheels, there are tubes in the tires.

Since when?!?

Not on mine.

EDIT - I'll go further - on any of the parts books that cover a cast wheel only model (V7II Stone, Carbon Dark, Carbon Shine, Milano, etc) the wheel exploded views SPECIFICALLY show the presence of a "Tubeless Tyre Valve" on the front and rear cast wheels.

Also on the service manuals that include both models with cast and spoke wheels they differentiate. For instance in the V7III Chassis manual they say:

"WHEEL RIMS
Specification Desc./Quantity
Type (Special/Racer/Anniversario) with spokes with alloy rims, for tyres with inner tubes
Type (Stone) Alloy wheels for tubeless tyres"



If I remember correctly you bought your cast wheels second hand. It sounds like you got a story from the seller.

[vintagehoarder]

A fan of the Metzler 888's here.

[bad Chad]

KevM is correct, again, with everything he has said on this thread.

[twowheeladdict]

My personal experience is well tuned suspension improves tire traction. 

I put my money in suspension before considering changing the type of tires I run, or any other mods that aren't for improved comfort.

[MMRanch]

  When Guzzi ships the bikes with cast wheels, there are tubes in the tires. The rims are rough inside. My front rim has had to be wire-brushed three times to remove roughness and corrosion so the tire will seal.

 

My 2016 Stone came with tubeless tires and no tube , I'm on my 4th set of tires and haven't had a problem ?     I'm just short of 30,000 miles on it.

..........

I had a pair of 888's on a Harley Sportster ... the rear was bald in 5,000 miles .   The same bike + driving habits  with Commander II's went 18,000 on the rear and the front went almost 30,000 miles.   
I've got BT-46 on my Enfield now and they are wonderful ... don't know how long they will last ?

[kingoffleece]

Road construction and surface may play a part.  When I had my V7 and lived in WNY the stock tires had a noticeable slip.  When those wore out Pilot Activ were installed.  After 3 fronts were replaced under warantee for broken belts I switched to RA3's.  Same roads, no slip, 5K out of the RA 3's.  Never got more than 6K out of any tire, ever, any any bike except the Harley's over the many years.  Envious of those who do.

[blu guzz]

King:  I am sure you are right about the road surfaces.  I live in the Northern Kentucky/Cincinnati area and also don't do well with tire life.  My BMW twins regularly got about 6,000 and the tires were always Metzler or Michelin.  My K1200RS could only manage 5,000 because the bike had a great front end bias and wore out the front pretty fast. On the Cali 1400, only about 5,000 miles.  On other cruisers I have managed about 9-10,000.  My V85 seems to do very well as its on the 3rd set and seems to get about 9,000, stock Anakees. 
I hear the tales of 12-18,000 miles and can only dream of such performance.  To qualify, I do not run them to the ragged end of their lives, so I may be leaving miles on the table.
Just one man's experience, so YMMV.

[Kev m]

10k+ has always been my target on rear tires.

I have run a couple to the cords, but usually give up on them by flat spots at the center.

I have managed this with bias ply Metzelers and Michelins over the years on every Harley I've owned and most Moto Guzzis (except the CARC radial).

[Burkslaw]

And if I switch to radial tires should I also use synthetic oil in the engine?  Just kidding! Don't kick me off here for mentioning oil.

[Kev m]

And if I switch to radial tires should I also use synthetic oil in the engine?  Just kidding! Don't kick me off here for mentioning oil.

Well, considering THAT is what was spec'd from the factory...

[Dirk_S]

And if I switch to radial tires should I also use synthetic oil in the engine?  Just kidding! Don't kick me off here for mentioning oil.

Well, considering THAT is what was spec'd from the factory...

Also, good luck finding conventional 10W-60 ;)

[egschade]

The OEM bias Pirelli Diablo tires on my V7 III felt stiff and greasy. I switched to Pirelli MT60 radials and IMHO, the ride seemed softer with noticeably better traction. Don't put a ton of miles on so not overly concerned with mileage.

[mhershon]

Kevin, I got no story from anyone. I bought a pair of cast wheels, one from Ohio, the other from California. No one said anything about tubes or tubeless. The rear rim works fine with a tire w/o a tube. The front rim has been problematic for over a year, leaking air. I was sure that Stones, etc, came with tubed tires on their cast wheels. The Stone that had my front wheel on it would not have made it across the ocean with air in a tubeless tire. I have always agreed with you, post after post, both forums on which I see your input. Something is amiss here.

[Clifton]

I would suggest going with radials. My 2016 V7II Stone came with bias tires and horrible, hard riding, rear shocks. The change to Icon shocks improved the ride considerably and it was further improved, although not quite as significantly, after changing to Continental radials. I noticed when on poor pavement the bike felt better in corners, on good pavement I really couldn't tell any difference.
This goes back some years but a friend told me that he and his buddy had been riding on highways in Ohio on their identical Transalps (other than tires) for a couple hours when they pulled into a gas station to fill up and cool off. They both had installed new rear tires prior to leaving WV, he had mounted a bias tire same as stock while his buddy had mounted a radial on the back. After stopping he felt both tires and said his bias was quite hot but the radial was just warm.

[Kev m]

Kevin, I got no story from anyone. I bought a pair of cast wheels, one from Ohio, the other from California. No one said anything about tubes or tubeless. The rear rim works fine with a tire w/o a tube. The front rim has been problematic for over a year, leaking air. I was sure that Stones, etc, came with tubed tires on their cast wheels. The Stone that had my front wheel on it would not have made it across the ocean with air in a tubeless tire. I have always agreed with you, post after post, both forums on which I see your input. Something is amiss here.

* shrugs *

Sounds like you just got at least one defective wheel? But that's my best guess.

All four smallblock cast wheels in my garage are fine and tubeless.

[LowRyter]

I stick with the Bias plys on my bikes that come with them.

I've tried switching in the past and the better stick was negligible, while the increased wear was noticable.

I've done a track day on a smallblock with bias plys. I can't see ME ever needing more on the street.

So I've currently got Michelin Road Classics on the V7 Stone. I'm very happy.

But literally YMMV.

me too.  I'd like to hear from riders that have made the change.  I only have the EV with bias tires.

[twowheeladdict]

I would suggest going with radials. My 2016 V7II Stone came with bias tires and horrible, hard riding, rear shocks. The change to Icon shocks improved the ride considerably and it was further improved, although not quite as significantly, after changing to Continental radials. I noticed when on poor pavement the bike felt better in corners, on good pavement I really couldn't tell any difference.
This goes back some years but a friend told me that he and his buddy had been riding on highways in Ohio on their identical Transalps (other than tires) for a couple hours when they pulled into a gas station to fill up and cool off. They both had installed new rear tires prior to leaving WV, he had mounted a bias tire same as stock while his buddy had mounted a radial on the back. After stopping he felt both tires and said his bias was quite hot but the radial was just warm.

Identical loads?  Identical rider weight?  Identical rear brake usage?  Identical tire pressure?  Identical shock settings?  Identical humidity level in their tires?  A lot of variables.

[Clifton]

Identical loads?  Identical rider weight?  Identical rear brake usage?  Identical tire pressure?  Identical shock settings?  Identical humidity level in their tires?  A lot of variables.

Yes that's what made it so valid, same bike, both weighed about 160-170#, both carrying basic luggage and camping gear. They both changed tires together on both bikes at Gary's garage then left the next morning riding together on their multi day trip. They had been riding for a ways on the second day when they pulled off for gas and a break. Gary said as soon as he got off he felt his and Sean's rear tire and was surprised how hot his was compared to Sean's radial. This is certainly not surprising as radials do run cooler than bias construction but I thought Gary's recount of his experience was interesting.

[Tom]

This is like an oil thread.