Author Topic: Piaggio - What the ...?!  (Read 4616 times)

Offline Luap McKeever

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2023, 10:11:08 AM »
Interesting move that's probably not going to fly very good in America. Most dealers have the brands they carry in their names as product identifiers. Just in my neck of the woods, there is Harper Moto Guzzi, Heritage Indian, Heritage Triumph, Pig Trail Harley Davidson, Sunrise Honda, Yamaha of Harrison, and dozens more alike.

And since the word Guzzi is actually a surname of actual people, they'll get a lot of court appearances with this if they push too hard. Imagine having the last name of Guzzi while owning a liquor store and calling it "Guzzi Liquor", or a sign outside your business and having this little company coming along telling you to remove it. Heck, I have a "Moto Guzzi PKWY" sign at the end of my driveway. Come and take it :evil:. I think they're picking the wrong battle here. They should be focusing on quality assurance, customer service, increased dealerships, competitors and inflation to keep their little products alive a little longer rather than fighting those who advertise for them,  completely free. Or even better, focus on building a reliable 1800cc liquid cooled touring-bagger loaded with tons of tech :wink:.

Hey, if any of you all want to put the name of my computer business outside your business, t-shirt or website, feel free...and thanks!
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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2023, 11:03:29 AM »
I kind of like Guzzi Escort service!
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Offline Bulldog9

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2023, 08:08:47 PM »
Do you know for sure it’s licensing that’s the issue there? Seems to me on the surface that folks there (and everywhere more or less) are attracted to the FAAAAASSSSTT Italian brands.

So maybe it’s as much brand marketing as it is licensing.

Only what the people running the stores told me when I asked, particularly the shops that seemed to focus on motorsports.
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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2023, 04:55:02 AM »
I really dont know about the other Piaggio brands, but in Guzzi's case, I think the money spent on lawers might be better served introducing the general public to the Moto Guzzi brand. You know...  maybe open a dealer or two..  maybe sell a hat or Tshirt to the loyal..  You know.. use the brand you are copywriting. I mean really though. The company is doing a good job with product. They have built up a nice line in the last 5 years or so..  And they do have some good dealers in the US.. but we have all heard about how bad the company support is for them. We all know that NO ONE in the US knows who we are. Just sad to see them go after the small loyal shops that keep/kept the brand alive in the lean times for us.
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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2023, 04:55:02 AM »

Offline Frenchfrog

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2023, 05:19:17 AM »
From Piagio's perspective those shops are off side .It's ridiculous but that's often how big corporations work.Un able to see the bigger picture, unable to see the struggles of small business and help them.

Offline OldMojo

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2023, 07:10:09 AM »
Interesting move that's probably not going to fly very good in America. Most dealers have the brands they carry in their names as product identifiers. Just in my neck of the woods, there is Harper Moto Guzzi, Heritage Indian, Heritage Triumph, Pig Trail Harley Davidson, Sunrise Honda, Yamaha of Harrison, and dozens more alike.

And since the word Guzzi is actually a surname of actual people, they'll get a lot of court appearances with this if they push too hard. Imagine having the last name of Guzzi while owning a liquor store and calling it "Guzzi Liquor", or a sign outside your business and having this little company coming along telling you to remove it. Heck, I have a "Moto Guzzi PKWY" sign at the end of my driveway. Come and take it :evil:. I think they're picking the wrong battle here. They should be focusing on quality assurance, customer service, increased dealerships, competitors and inflation to keep their little products alive a little longer rather than fighting those who advertise for them,  completely free. Or even better, focus on building a reliable 1800cc liquid cooled touring-bagger loaded with tons of tech :wink:.

Hey, if any of you all want to put the name of my computer business outside your business, t-shirt or website, feel free...and thanks!

Perhaps you're familiar with the tale of a certain Mr. Nissan who had a small computer business pre-dating the internet.

https://jalopnik.com/uzi-nissan-spent-8-years-fighting-the-car-company-with-1822815832

As I recall, the issue was only over the domain name, and not his business name.

I'm no copyright lawyer, but I'm pretty sure "Guzzi Liquor" would fly since it's totally unrelated to the motorcycle industry -  as long as said business didn't trade on motorcycle imagery.

On the other hand, If I were a machinist named Joe Guzzi who made aftermarket parts in my garage for Harleys, "Guzzi Hog Accessories" would probably be shot down in short order - unless I (and my forebears) had been in business prior to "Guzzi" the motorcycle brand being registered in the US.

In which case Harley would be suing me already over the word "Hog"  :rolleyes:
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Offline Moparnut72

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2023, 08:25:51 AM »
When I lived in a then small town in Colorado we had a local restaurant, watering hole called the Ponderosa Steak House. It had been in existence for many years. A chain of restaurants started up with the same name. One day lawyers showed up with a cease and desist order. The owner said no, I was first. It wound up in court. The chain had to pay a bunch to use the name and for the local business to change it's name. I guess my local Tshirt guy technically could be in trouble for making Moto Guzzi T-shirts for me but isn't offering for sale to the general public so he is good. How many would he sell anyway?
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Offline SIR REAL ED

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2023, 05:48:14 AM »
I'm late to the party:

That sounds incredibly stupid on the part of Piaggio.  sounds like the Piaggio lawyers had a bit tooooo much vino at lunch!

If I had a domain name or a business with the word guzzi in it, I would good humorly change it to Guzzzi or Guzi or Guz_i or Gussie....

I think in solidarity with the victims of this stupidity, hereafter, the word guzzi should be banned and replaced with _______?

Let the suggestions begin!

I'll start:
1. "Gussie"
2. "I can't say that word!"
« Last Edit: February 08, 2023, 06:21:57 AM by SIR REAL ED »
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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2023, 06:03:59 AM »
Royal Enfield went through nonsense like this with their present "Interceptor 650" models, one of which I own.  50-60 years ago RE had a model called the Interceptor.  When the parent company in UK folded, the name was picked up by Honda for their so-named V-4 models in the 1980s.  Honda apparently copyrighted the model name in the USA, only.

When RE came out with their Interceptor in 2019, Honda's well-oiled USA legal machine pounced on them and enjoined them from calling the model in the USA the "Interceptor 650". So, the hapless RE folks re-badged it the "INT-650".  What an "INT" is escapes me, but apparently Honda was satisfied.

I disliked this nonsensical moniker on my bike's side covers so I sourced a pair of perfectly-copied non-USA "Interceptor 650" decals from Sticker_Dude in Australia.  They fit right over the INT decals and the side covers.  I hope Honda lawyers do not peruse the WGC board.

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Offline vf84pc

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2023, 12:26:11 PM »
Harley did the same thing 30 years ago when sales were not great they sued a guy who did a hog farm rally and the sign said Harley Davidson only.
The court decision said Harley owned H.O.G. not HOG the club that staged the rally changed the name Hawg to avoid copy wright problems. Harley sued again because they were associating the Harley Davidson name with a "Hawg" which is a dirty filthy animal and it was damaging there brand. So it became an "All Makes" welcome rally.
I understand they want to get paid for the use of there logo and control branding to maintain a positive image. Moto Guzzi does not have many loyal followers and they may want to rethink upsetting the status quo as long as those organizations are acting within standards and projecting a positive brand image.
Being a Triumph guy since the 1980's I always wore a T-shirt with the Triumph Logo (The classic one) John Bloor had directed the new logo was controlled and the vintage logo was free to use. Well Triumph Motorcycles LTD now has sent cease and desist letters to various vendors telling them not to use the vintage logo unless they want to pay Triumph Motorcycles LTD for the privilege.
So Triumph Motorcycles LTD. can Kiss my A** I am not paying them $50.00+ for the privilege of advertising there brand when we (The vintage guys) kept there name alive. I would sooner buy a Harley than a new Triumph.

Offline janguzzi

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2023, 01:28:53 PM »
Kind Regards
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Offline Frenchfrog

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2023, 02:14:47 PM »
I bet Stephan is not quite the happy chappy he was back then...

Offline LowRyter

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2023, 03:19:30 PM »
Even dumber considering they don't even service the legacy bikes.  These guys think they're Harley?
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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2023, 03:58:23 PM »
The official Guzzi dealers have no problem, but some shops with Guzzi in their name who do sell parts or work on Guzzi's have to change their name. It looks like if there is anything commercial found they won't allow it. But I'm not sure. I got the layer letter too, because I have a domainname and website with Guzzi in the name. But i'm just a private person offering nothing, only Guzzi affection. The website is there for 15 or 20 years.
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Offline Guzzistaracing

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2023, 06:29:26 PM »
No one in China cares, the manifacture of low price, low quality items with the MG logo and name will go on regardless. Good luck Piaggio.
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Offline egschade

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2023, 06:17:04 AM »
BMW did the same with the Skylands BMW Club last year. BMW gave the club grief about the name and using the BMW logo. Wound up with a patch that doesn't include the Roundrel and the name was changed - partly due to merging w/ another club - to Skylands Sport Touring MC Club.
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Online blu guzz

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2023, 06:58:02 AM »
many years ago, when i was active in our local bmw club, we dealt with this issue of the edict from bmw corporate and changed our logo. 
about this time, i had a friend with an independent motorcycle repair shop who got a cease and desist letter from yamaha, no using the tuning fork or their name.  it turns out a competing yamaha dealer narced him out to yamaha corportate.  enforcement seems to be very selective.
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2023, 11:58:09 AM »
I wonder if we have to change our log in names on forums? Are they coming after us?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2023, 01:21:07 PM by Ncdan »
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Offline dguzzi

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2023, 01:58:00 PM »
so then this is something they may not like?  https://ibb.co/5sTb4w2
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Offline egschade

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2023, 05:41:29 PM »
so then this is something they may not like?  https://ibb.co/5sTb4w2

No, they will NOT like that at all. You should immediately send me all your bottles for hiding - plausible deniability and all that...
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Offline John A

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2023, 09:09:45 PM »
Interesting move that's probably not going to fly very good in America. Most dealers have the brands they carry in their names as product identifiers. Just in my neck of the woods, there is Harper Moto Guzzi, Heritage Indian, Heritage Triumph, Pig Trail Harley Davidson, Sunrise Honda, Yamaha of Harrison, and dozens more alike.

And since the word Guzzi is actually a surname of actual people, they'll get a lot of court appearances with this if they push too hard. Imagine having the last name of Guzzi while owning a liquor store and calling it "Guzzi Liquor", or a sign outside your business and having this little company coming along telling you to remove it. Heck, I have a "Moto Guzzi PKWY" sign at the end of my driveway. Come and take it :evil:. I think they're picking the wrong battle here. They should be focusing on quality assurance, customer service, increased dealerships, competitors and inflation to keep their little products alive a little longer rather than fighting those who advertise for them,  completely free. Or even better, focus on building a reliable 1800cc liquid cooled touring-bagger loaded with tons of tech :wink:.

Hey, if any of you all want to put the name of my computer business outside your business, t-shirt or website, feel free...and thanks!



My brother is buried at a military cemetery and a row behind him there is Guzzi buried. I’ll get a picture next summer. More proof it’s a surname here
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Offline krglorioso

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2023, 09:36:20 PM »
Rather obliquely-related to the behavior of Piaggio calling forth the dogs of copyright lawyerdom, but I never will forget Soichiro Honda's response in the late 1970s to the proposed USA emissions rules 5 years hence:

"When new emissions restrictions are proposed, Detroit hires more lawyers; Honda hires more engineers"

Prior to his statement, Mr. Honda ordered his purchasing people to buy a new Chevrolet "crate" engine and had his engineers modify it for emissions reduction.  The engine easily passed the emissions laws proposed for 5 years forward. 

Piaggio, legal action is not the problem you say it is.  Make a better product; give better support to your dealers and customers.

Ralph
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2023, 10:06:31 PM »
It is a surname here in USA, there's Guzzi Pizza in TX. I seen pic's of it.
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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2023, 11:10:18 PM »
Paolo Guzzi, (born 1940), Italian poet and critic.
Paul Guzzi (born 1942), American businessman and former Massachusetts Secretary of the Commonwealth.
About 1000 people with the surname Guzzi in US Census.
Search for Guzzi on Facebook/People and find about 95 folks with the surname.
In Austria, Guzzi is a diminutive for Gustav. Look up the Nazi-era ski racer Guzzi Lantschner.
For whatever that's worth.
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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2023, 06:12:12 AM »
While I don’t see any reason to backtrack on that last comment I shared, I did just read more into the case of “nominative trademark usage”, with fan clubs specifically mentioned. While I’m certainly no lawyer, it seems that fan clubs have a leg to stand on under fair / nominative usage when it comes to not only in name or description of the club or site, but also in the online domain name , so long as the domain name isn’t already trademarked, and it’s clear that the club/fan site is not advertising as though they’re the licensor of the trademark—a common example includes using the “Rolling Stones” within the name of the fan club, but avoiding attempts at making a significant profit off the trademark name in a fashion that makes it appear that the site/club has trademark /copyright allowance (like trying to sell Rolling Stones t-shirts). Extra beneficial if the trademark usage is done in a positive fashion, where the trademark owner can’t argue over defamation or negative impact of profits.

I’m curious now over the legality differences across different countries/regions.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2023, 02:55:45 PM by Dirk_S »
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Offline Kremmen

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2023, 08:14:10 AM »
Next victim:

https://www.facebook.com/radicalspeedshop

Not going to lie. I have been noticing some of this going on - especially this example, and HMB - and assuming 'sh1t, Guzzi sales are dying, they're diversifying away from the brand'.

OK, maybe dumb, but I doubt I'm alone.

So, NICE WORK PIAGGIO.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 08:14:56 AM by Kremmen »

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #56 on: March 08, 2023, 12:05:10 PM »
Harley did the same thing  once their popularity skyrocketed so they could make money off the name. That's when the Harley bath towels hit the dealer shelves.
Can you still get Harley branded toilet paper…? :wink: :popcorn:

Online bad Chad

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #57 on: March 08, 2023, 03:56:25 PM »
You can, but i hear it works about as well as using wax paper :laugh:!
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Offline chuck peterson

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2023, 07:48:51 AM »
I’m reviving this thread…

Supreme Court heard a case yesterday…

Jack Daniel’s sues dog chew toy manufacturer over close imitation of JD whiskey bottle

Trademark law protects intellectual property, so says one side of the argument…

But parody is a part of free speech too

In this case, the chew toy company is making money by piggy backing onto the visibility popularity of Jack Daniel’s and others





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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #59 on: March 23, 2023, 08:06:01 AM »
Doesn’t sound like parody. Parody’s part of fair use, and often comes with it a thoughtful commentary or jab, but that’s certainly subjective. This just seems like one specific mass manufacturer capitalizing off another.

Ugh, Art. To this day I don’t know whether I’d kiss Marcel Duchamp or strangle him.
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