Honda engineering-tough to beat (limited GC)

[SIR REAL ED]

I’ve owned shaft drive Honda’s, Like the CX  as well as shaft drive BMW’s.
It’s perplexing how Honda, who came later to the shaft drive design, can make one that easily last 100,000’s of miles.
But, BMW, exclusively using shaft drive for decades, can’t design a reliable system.
Rant over.

This reads like a great start to an oil thread, er, uh, I mean oil argument.

As Michael Jackson used to say:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4CcgblWC8k

[SIR REAL ED]

I definitely prefer Japanese motorcycles, but I have also owned a BMW, a few Triumphs and now ride a Guzzi. I had actually decided to buy a Honda, but when the one I wanted had been sold, I decided to go for the Roamer. The two did not even compete, as they were made for different uses, so it was a bit of an odd choice. I choice I am very happy to have made, because it is a very relaxing motorcycle to be on. But my somewhat upgraded 41 year old Yamaha is outperforming my Guzzi in many areas. It is faster, the suspension is both more comfortable and bottom out less, and there is more cornering clearance. There is also a lot less noise from the drive train. Front brake, though, are a LOT worse, the engine vibrates more and it is a much heavier bike.

I like the looks of the Yamaha more than the Roamer.  Not sure I would say that if the Yamaha was stock.

Comparing bikes that have age differences of decades?  Not doubt most of the criticism would be applicable to both us and our spouses.

I remember my wife saying how much difference there was when she moved from a 1976 Kawasaki KE175 to a 1994 Suzuki DR350.  I replied "Yeah.  The motorcycle manufacturers have made a lot of progress in the last 18 years."

[SIR REAL ED]

I've never been a Honda fan, more than a few models seem over-rated to me. That said, like many riders I started out on a series of Z50 Mini-Trails (most bought as "barn finds" and fixed up), and I owned a CL100 when I was 14 and that was great fun. That was my last one except for a CB350F that I "saved" from rotting away under a tarp, and a Z50 that I fixed up - both sold as soon as they were done.

Honda has made a few models over the years that have appealed to me: I considered buying a leftover VFR1000R in '86 instead of a Le Mans 1000, I'd like to try an NT650 Hawk GT and GB500. Lately I've become quite interested in the 2023 XR150L - the simplicity and low cost are appealing to me.

I can agree with a lot of that.  Honda's models almost always seemed the least exciting of the Big Four Japanese motorcycle models.  With few exceptions like the first V-Four models, the Goldwing, the CB fours, the CBR900RR, CBX, etc.

European models were always out of my price range.  Which says more about me than it does about them.

I always admired the risky models Yamaha produced, many of which did not sell in great enough numbers to survive.

As some remarked in another thread, "They're all hammers!"

The characteristics our motorcycles possess in reality, pale compared with the characteristics we can endowe them with in our own minds.

Charlie, if you ever get the chance to try out a Honda NT650 Hawk, and a first generation Suzuki SV650 back to back, I'd love to hear your evaluations.

Everyone should beg, borrow or steal a test ride on an Aprilia RXV or SXV 550, just to see what is lurking on the other side of the Italian fence.

[faffi]

I always admired the risky models Yamaha produced, many of which did not sell in great enough numbers to survive.

Me too! The TX750, the TX/XS500, the XZ550, the XS750/850, the shaft drive Secas aimed directly at the sport bike (for its time) market, the RD250/350 L/C, the FJ1100 with 16 in wheels, the TDR250 and TDM850/900, the SZR660, the SRX-6, the TRX850 - yes, they have been bolder than the competition many times. Some failed, some succeded, most remembered.

[PeteS]

I’ve owned shaft drive Honda’s, Like the CX  as well as shaft drive BMW’s.
It’s perplexing how Honda, who came later to the shaft drive design, can make one that easily last 100,000’s of miles.
But, BMW, exclusively using shaft drive for decades, can’t design a reliable system.
Rant over.

I assume you are referring to the later bikes. My 84 RT airhead went over 220,000 miles with the all original drivetrain including the U Joint when I sold it. My ‘76 LeMans needed a U Joint at 20k.

Pete

[faffi]

I like the looks of the Yamaha more than the Roamer.  Not sure I would say that if the Yamaha was stock.

Thank you, I take that as a compliment 

Comparing bikes that have age differences of decades?  Not doubt most of the criticism would be applicable to both us and our spouses.

I remember my wife saying how much difference there was when she moved from a 1976 Kawasaki KE175 to a 1994 Suzuki DR350.  I replied "Yeah.  The motorcycle manufacturers have made a lot of progress in the last 18 years."

If you mean that we change over the decades, you are of course right. Some more than others Just as some types of bikes change more than others. A Harley Sportster from 1973 will be less apart from a 2023 Sportster than a 1973 V7 Sport from a 2023 GSX-R750.

Just as some bikes age better than others, there are people stronger and more fit today at the age of 70 than many current 20 year old individuals. Not sure if I make sense here at all with my attempt at analogies, but I would not be surprised if a 1973 V7 Sport would go faster around a race track than an 883 Sportster, and that would make it viable and interesting to compare them in my personal opinion  Just as I would get a kick out of watching a 70 year old beat an average 20 year old in athletic challenges

[faffi]

I assume you are referring to the later bikes. My 84 RT airhead went over 220,000 miles with the all original drivetrain including the U Joint when I sold it. My ‘76 LeMans needed a U Joint at 20k.

Pete

I am obviously entering dangerous territory here, but MOTORRAD magazine have done long term tests since the 1970s, everything from 25k km (16k mi) to 100k km (64k mi) before taking the bikes completely apart before measuring wear and damage to every part, from the valves to the suspenion.

A surprising amount of the old airheads needed new valves and valve seats before reaching 16k miles. The primary cause was of course that, with no speed limits, they spent hours with their throttle pinned, but this also show that they could not take the punishment. Also, several of these airheads - and later oilheads and multis - destroyed their gearboxes and/or final drives, and damaged clutches, either from broken springs or sheared splines or oil ingress from a leaking output engine seal, have also been common. Again, on everything from the R75/5 until quite recent models.

The drive train issues were mostly down to poor quality control, the valve was a design issue. The majority of Beemers would go on for a long, long time, but their rate of catastrophic mechanical failures far surpassed that of the Japanese brands.

I also recall one of the very limited long term tests MOTORRAD did on a Moto Guzzi, Le Mans II, printed in issue 4, 1981, that was ridden 25k km. One reader said of his Le Mans that it was "kein japanischer Einhetsschrott" (no uniform Japanese crap). The statement got him a lot of flak from other readers in the following issue because of how the test bike fared.

Average fuel consumption: 7.13 l / 100 km (33 mpg) (average reader value: 6.4 l / 100 km [36.8 mpg])
Average oil consumption per 1000 km: 0.8 liter (ARV: 0.35)

Service report: (numbers = how many km from new the bike had traveled at the time)
676: Spark plug cap replaced
1110: Number plate destroyed from vibrations
2268: Fuel tank replaced due to a leak
2928: Engine vent hose spewed oil directly onto the rear tire
3782: Both cylinders and -heads removed and inspected due to high oil consumption, both pistons and rings replaced, cylinders bored, two valves lapped in, carbs and ignition adjusted
3782: Both tires renewed, engine oil renewed, 3 bulbs replaced
3848: Rev counter went out, return spring on sides stand broke
4872: Oil leak from the RHS head gasket
4970: Cylinder heads torqued down, valves adjusted, rev counter cable replaced
5366: Two bulbs replaced
5932: RHS throttle cable broken, replaced
6654: Rear tire replaced
7715: Single bulb replacement
8831: Two bulbs replaced
9886: Side stand return spring broke
10036: Center stand broke in half, one bulb replaced
10292: Center stand welded, oil change for engine and transmission, brake fluid change, new brake pads rear, two new bulbs
10292: Rear tire replaced
10843: RHS carb loose, tightened
11323: Throttle cable replaced, headlight flash switch defect
12231: Three bulbs replaced
13630: Tank lid cover lock defect
14401: Both tires replaced, new engine oil, brakes tested
16030: Two bulbs replaced
19080: Speedo cable replaced
21350: New rear tire
22102: New complete headlight due to vibration damage
22489: Throttle cables replaced
23750: One bulb replaced
25198: Test finished,bike dismantled

Findings:
Compression higher than when new
Both pistons and piston rings shot (no air filter)
Valve stem to valve guide clearances much too big
Clutch thickness right at the wear limit
Paint on fuel tank in particular bad
Very rusty exhaust system (after just 9 months on the road)
A number of readers reported about the tank lid lock issue
Most owners complained about rust and poor finish. One unlucky owner experienced paint flaking after just 500 km, another rust after just 800 km.

About 1/3 of the owners experience electrical gremlins, mostly stator or rotor related in addition to bad connectors
Stock exhaust robbed a lot of power between 3000 and 5000 rpm, 2/3 of the owners fitted Lafranconis that solved this (illegally)
Many complained about high speed instability issues, a few even crashed due to this, one at 130 mph
Rear shocks too short and too soft; two-up, the rear wheel would hit the inner fender
Two riders experienced ruined U-joints
Two riders experienced the loss of piston cir-clip that cause the piston pin to destroy itself, the piston and the cylinder

[PeteS]

Just as some bikes age better than others, there are people stronger and more fit today at the age of 70 than many current 20 year old individuals. Not sure if I make sense here at all with my attempt at analogies, but I would not be surprised if a 1973 V7 Sport would go faster around a race track than an 883 Sportster, and that would make it viable and interesting to compare them in my personal opinion  Just as I would get a kick out of watching a 70 year old beat an average 20 year old in athletic challenges

Pretty sure a 73 V7 Sport would beat an 883 Harley and likely a modern 750 V7 Guzzi as well. 850 V7 would make it a race.

Pete

[PeteS]

My ‘84 Beemer had valve train issues but not driveshaft issues that you first referred to. I would not call my ‘84 BMW particularly reliable but driveshafts were not one of its problems.

Pete

[SIR REAL ED]

Me too! The TX750, the TX/XS500, the XZ550, the XS750/850, the shaft drive Secas aimed directly at the sport bike (for its time) market, the RD250/350 L/C, the FJ1100 with 16 in wheels, the TDR250 and TDM850/900, the SZR660, the SRX-6, the TRX850 - yes, they have been bolder than the competition many times. Some failed, some succeded, most remembered.

I have lusted after many of the bikes you listed.  I recently gave a retired motorcycle dealer friend a sales brochure for a.Yamaha TDR 250.  He was awestruck!  "Wow!  I never even knew these existed!  That bike was 20 years ahead of it's time!  I could have sold a ton of those things!"


I test rode a TDM850 in 92 at the Charlotte Motor Speedway.  It was neat.

[Moparnut72]

I don't know about later BMW drivetrains but my R75/5's driveshaft housing was a separate oil vessel. So the shaft, spline and u-joint ran in an oil bath. The only problem I ever had with it was the seal at the rear failed early on allowing the oil to migrate to the final drive. It was repaired under warranty. I didn't have any valve train problems but I felt it was noisy but I had a full fairing which contained the noise. Compared to my former 1400 it was quiet. I should say it was a very early one, built 11/69. I was kind of a beta tester, since I putting a lot of mileage on it the first year I had it, BMW was tracking how it was holding up. Overall it was a very reliable bike.
kk

[SIR REAL ED]

Thank you, I take that as a compliment 


If you mean that we change over the decades, you are of course right. Some more than others Just as some types of bikes change more than others. A Harley Sportster from 1973 will be less apart from a 2023 Sportster than a 1973 V7 Sport from a 2023 GSX-R750.

Just as some bikes age better than others, there are people stronger and more fit today at the age of 70 than many current 20 year old individuals. Not sure if I make sense here at all with my attempt at analogies, but I would not be surprised if a 1973 V7 Sport would go faster around a race track than an 883 Sportster, and that would make it viable and interesting to compare them in my personal opinion  Just as I would get a kick out of watching a 70 year old beat an average 20 year old in athletic challenges

It was intended as a compliment!

Yes, the looks on the faces of the 20 somethings on their 120+ horsepower bikes when they realize they have been following a moderately skilled 60 something rider on a 35 horsepower motorcycle thru the curves is a wonder to behold.

[SIR REAL ED]

I am obviously entering dangerous territory here, but MOTORRAD magazine have done long term tests since the 1970s, everything from 25k km (16k mi) to 100k km (64k mi) before taking the bikes completely apart before measuring wear and damage to every part, from the valves to the suspenion.

A surprising amount of the old airheads needed new valves and valve seats before reaching 16k miles. The primary cause was of course that, with no speed limits, they spent hours with their throttle pinned, but this also show that they could not take the punishment. Also, several of these airheads - and later oilheads and multis - destroyed their gearboxes and/or final drives, and damaged clutches, either from broken springs or sheared splines or oil ingress from a leaking output engine seal, have also been common. Again, on everything from the R75/5 until quite recent models.

The drive train issues were mostly down to poor quality control, the valve was a design issue. The majority of Beemers would go on for a long, long time, but their rate of catastrophic mechanical failures far surpassed that of the Japanese brands.

I also recall one of the very limited long term tests MOTORRAD did on a Moto Guzzi, Le Mans II, printed in issue 4, 1981, that was ridden 25k km. One reader said of his Le Mans that it was "kein japanischer Einhetsschrott" (no uniform Japanese crap). The statement got him a lot of flak from other readers in the following issue because of how the test bike fared.

Average fuel consumption: 7.13 l / 100 km (33 mpg) (average reader value: 6.4 l / 100 km [36.8 mpg])
Average oil consumption per 1000 km: 0.8 liter (ARV: 0.35)

Service report: (numbers = how many km from new the bike had traveled at the time)
676: Spark plug cap replaced
1110: Number plate destroyed from vibrations
2268: Fuel tank replaced due to a leak
2928: Engine vent hose spewed oil directly onto the rear tire
3782: Both cylinders and -heads removed and inspected due to high oil consumption, both pistons and rings replaced, cylinders bored, two valves lapped in, carbs and ignition adjusted
3782: Both tires renewed, engine oil renewed, 3 bulbs replaced
3848: Rev counter went out, return spring on sides stand broke
4872: Oil leak from the RHS head gasket
4970: Cylinder heads torqued down, valves adjusted, rev counter cable replaced
5366: Two bulbs replaced
5932: RHS throttle cable broken, replaced
6654: Rear tire replaced
7715: Single bulb replacement
8831: Two bulbs replaced
9886: Side stand return spring broke
10036: Center stand broke in half, one bulb replaced
10292: Center stand welded, oil change for engine and transmission, brake fluid change, new brake pads rear, two new bulbs
10292: Rear tire replaced
10843: RHS carb loose, tightened
11323: Throttle cable replaced, headlight flash switch defect
12231: Three bulbs replaced
13630: Tank lid cover lock defect
14401: Both tires replaced, new engine oil, brakes tested
16030: Two bulbs replaced
19080: Speedo cable replaced
21350: New rear tire
22102: New complete headlight due to vibration damage
22489: Throttle cables replaced
23750: One bulb replaced
25198: Test finished,bike dismantled

Findings:
Compression higher than when new
Both pistons and piston rings shot (no air filter)
Valve stem to valve guide clearances much too big
Clutch thickness right at the wear limit
Paint on fuel tank in particular bad
Very rusty exhaust system (after just 9 months on the road)
A number of readers reported about the tank lid lock issue
Most owners complained about rust and poor finish. One unlucky owner experienced paint flaking after just 500 km, another rust after just 800 km.

About 1/3 of the owners experience electrical gremlins, mostly stator or rotor related in addition to bad connectors
Stock exhaust robbed a lot of power between 3000 and 5000 rpm, 2/3 of the owners fitted Lafranconis that solved this (illegally)
Many complained about high speed instability issues, a few even crashed due to this, one at 130 mph
Rear shocks too short and too soft; two-up, the rear wheel would hit the inner fender
Two riders experienced ruined U-joints
Two riders experienced the loss of piston cir-clip that cause the piston pin to destroy itself, the piston and the cylinder

Interesting.  Thanks for posting.  Most of the BMW owners I have known (both car and motorcycle) have been very disappointed in build quality and how they have been treated by BMW dealers.

[usedtobefast]

Paul - so why had the Honda sat unstarted for ~15 years?? 

[usedtobefast]

Reading through this thread ... and thinking "I've had Honda's that were really fun to ride ..."

1980 CB750F when I was 19 years old, that was fun!
V65 Saber - 1100 v4, tons of fun
VF500F Interceptor - small, but a wonderful engine and great fun

But, the most boring motorcycle I ever owned was a 1992 Interceptor 750.  Honda really worked the fun out of that one. 

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I am obviously entering dangerous territory here, but MOTORRAD magazine have done long term tests since the 1970s, everything from 25k km (16k mi) to 100k km (64k mi) before taking the bikes completely apart before measuring wear and damage to every part, from the valves to the suspenion.

A surprising amount of the old airheads needed new valves and valve seats before reaching 16k miles. The primary cause was of course that, with no speed limits, they spent hours with their throttle pinned, but this also show that they could not take the punishment. Also, several of these airheads - and later oilheads and multis - destroyed their gearboxes and/or final drives, and damaged clutches, either from broken springs or sheared splines or oil ingress from a leaking output engine seal, have also been common. Again, on everything from the R75/5 until quite recent models.

The drive train issues were mostly down to poor quality control, the valve was a design issue. The majority of Beemers would go on for a long, long time, but their rate of catastrophic mechanical failures far surpassed that of the Japanese brands.

I also recall one of the very limited long term tests MOTORRAD did on a Moto Guzzi, Le Mans II, printed in issue 4, 1981, that was ridden 25k km. One reader said of his Le Mans that it was "kein japanischer Einhetsschrott" (no uniform Japanese crap). The statement got him a lot of flak from other readers in the following issue because of how the test bike fared.

Average fuel consumption: 7.13 l / 100 km (33 mpg) (average reader value: 6.4 l / 100 km [36.8 mpg])
Average oil consumption per 1000 km: 0.8 liter (ARV: 0.35)

Service report: (numbers = how many km from new the bike had traveled at the time)
676: Spark plug cap replaced
1110: Number plate destroyed from vibrations
2268: Fuel tank replaced due to a leak
2928: Engine vent hose spewed oil directly onto the rear tire
3782: Both cylinders and -heads removed and inspected due to high oil consumption, both pistons and rings replaced, cylinders bored, two valves lapped in, carbs and ignition adjusted
3782: Both tires renewed, engine oil renewed, 3 bulbs replaced
3848: Rev counter went out, return spring on sides stand broke
4872: Oil leak from the RHS head gasket
4970: Cylinder heads torqued down, valves adjusted, rev counter cable replaced
5366: Two bulbs replaced
5932: RHS throttle cable broken, replaced
6654: Rear tire replaced
7715: Single bulb replacement
8831: Two bulbs replaced
9886: Side stand return spring broke
10036: Center stand broke in half, one bulb replaced
10292: Center stand welded, oil change for engine and transmission, brake fluid change, new brake pads rear, two new bulbs
10292: Rear tire replaced
10843: RHS carb loose, tightened
11323: Throttle cable replaced, headlight flash switch defect
12231: Three bulbs replaced
13630: Tank lid cover lock defect
14401: Both tires replaced, new engine oil, brakes tested
16030: Two bulbs replaced
19080: Speedo cable replaced
21350: New rear tire
22102: New complete headlight due to vibration damage
22489: Throttle cables replaced
23750: One bulb replaced
25198: Test finished,bike dismantled

Findings:
Compression higher than when new
Both pistons and piston rings shot (no air filter)
Valve stem to valve guide clearances much too big
Clutch thickness right at the wear limit
Paint on fuel tank in particular bad
Very rusty exhaust system (after just 9 months on the road)
A number of readers reported about the tank lid lock issue
Most owners complained about rust and poor finish. One unlucky owner experienced paint flaking after just 500 km, another rust after just 800 km.

About 1/3 of the owners experience electrical gremlins, mostly stator or rotor related in addition to bad connectors
Stock exhaust robbed a lot of power between 3000 and 5000 rpm, 2/3 of the owners fitted Lafranconis that solved this (illegally)
Many complained about high speed instability issues, a few even crashed due to this, one at 130 mph
Rear shocks too short and too soft; two-up, the rear wheel would hit the inner fender
Two riders experienced ruined U-joints
Two riders experienced the loss of piston cir-clip that cause the piston pin to destroy itself, the piston and the cylinder

As my late father often said: "some people can break anything". The above list of issues proves just that.

[guzziart]

As my late father often said: "some people can break anything".

 

[blackcat]

A good friend of mine and multiple Guzzi owner decided to buy a Goldwing so he and his wife could go on long trips. She went on one trip and decided it wasn't for her. One day he and I went for a ride, him on the Goldwing and me on the Daytona and after a few miles we swapped bikes. It just wasn't for me, had to rev the shyte out of it just to hear the motor and even that was uninteresting. M friend sold the bike soon after that and he returned to his Guzzi's. 

[faffi]

Pretty sure a 73 V7 Sport would beat an 883 Harley and likely a modern 750 V7 Guzzi as well. 850 V7 would make it a race.

Pete

You are most likely correct, the only saving grace for the Harley would be the brakes and possibly the fork, the rest would fall behind the old Guzzi.

My ‘84 Beemer had valve train issues but not driveshaft issues that you first referred to. I would not call my ‘84 BMW particularly reliable but driveshafts were not one of its problems.
Pete

I do not think I have read about a drive shaft failure on models prior to the Paralever era. Which is amazing considering how much wheel travel the old airheads offered, and how short the swingarm was. I reckon a period Guzzi U-joint would have failed before you got home from the shop in a BMW like that.

What failed - and mostly would fail within the first 10k miles or not at all - was the gearbox, which could lock up or downright explode, and/or the final drive unit. Plus the clutch, especially when oil got through from the engine or if there was a lack of lube on the splines, causing them to destroy splines on the output shaft and the clutch itself. Clutch failures can happen at any time in the life of the bike.

Another issue due to poor quality control was vibrations; some engines would run smoothly, others vibrate at certain rpm and be smooth at others, while the worst (less common) would vibrate badly enough to rattle eyeballs.

[faffi]

 the looks on the faces of the 20 somethings on their 120+ horsepower bikes when they realize they have been following a moderately skilled 60 something rider on a 35 horsepower motorcycle thru the curves is a wonder to behold.

Sure you are not my brother? He rides a 1956 BSA A10 that has about 35 horses, and he flies on it! Partly because the bikes has so poor brakes it makes it difficult to slow down for corners 

[faffi]

Interesting.  Thanks for posting.  Most of the BMW owners I have known (both car and motorcycle) have been very disappointed in build quality and how they have been treated by BMW dealers.

Being a nerd I enjoy posting stuff a very limited few are interested in. Or there is so much information that they cannot be arsed to read it all 

BMW
Consumer Reports found that 40% of new BMWs require fairly serious repair within four years. While riders do find BMW motorcycles to be less reliable overall, this figure may be skewed by two things: Consumer Reports readers are more likely to prefer and buy BMW motorcycles and these bikes are usually ridden for more miles than, say, Kawasaki and Suzuki bikes which may skew the results.

However, 68% of owners would buy a BMW again. That’s a higher customer satisfaction rate than Yamaha, ranked the most reliable motorcycle. A luxury brand with a lot of technology and sophisticated engineering, a BMW bike also comes with more things that can go wrong. Keep in mind that not only are you probably more likely to need repairs, BMW motorcycles are more expensive to repair and maintain than brands like Honda.

Source: https://funtransport.com/blog/most-reliable-motorcycle-brands/#:~:text=Can%2DAm%20motorcycles%20had%20the,much%20to%20Can%2DAm%20riders.

[faffi]

As my late father often said: "some people can break anything". The above list of issues proves just that.

Every long term bike is serviced by certified dealers at the advised intervals, but were also ridden quite hard back in the day when they could go flat out on das Autobahn for hours at the time. Bikes they wore out (parts of) the engine in 25k km are many. Here are a few bikes that most would consider to be very reliable:

Multiple Beemers
Honda GL1000 and GL1100 (Gold Wings)
Honda CB900F
Honda CBX550
Kawasaki (K)Z1000
Kawasaki K(Z)750
Kawasaki GPz1100
Suzuki GS1000
Suzuki GS850G
Suzuki GS400
Yamaha SR500
Yamaha XV750 Virago
Yamaha XJ650

[pehayes]

My two sons were sharing an apartment at University.  Both had M1 licensing.  I bought them a used Honda CH80 scooter to get around.  #1 son rode it a lot.  #2 son never.  I urged them to keep up the maintenance.  One day #1 decided to change the oil and drained away.  But he didn't have any replacement and would get some tomorrow.  Guess which day #2 decided to go for a ride.  Tow it home dad.

Many hours of twisting the seized crank and pouring various solvents down the plug hole.  Eventually got it turning enough to start and run.  It was a little weak and smoked some, but we're back on the road.

Now boys, you've scored the cylinder.  Its going to consume and burn oil so pay attention.  Each assumed the other would check the oil.

Ran it dry until Seize Incident #2.  Tow it home dad.

Again many hours of twisting the crank and solvents in the plug hole.  On the road again.  Sold it away when they left school.  To my knowledge it is still smoking its way around Santa Cruz.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[SIR REAL ED]

As my late father often said: "some people can break anything". The above list of issues proves just that.

back in the day, the version I heard was "That guy could tear up an anvil!"

a lot of the items on the above list don't seem to be failed items, but just normal wear items.

[faffi]

My two sons were sharing an apartment at University.  Both had M1 licensing.  I bought them a used Honda CH80 scooter to get around.  #1 son rode it a lot.  #2 son never.  I urged them to keep up the maintenance.  One day #1 decided to change the oil and drained away.  But he didn't have any replacement and would get some tomorrow.  Guess which day #2 decided to go for a ride.  Tow it home dad.

Many hours of twisting the seized crank and pouring various solvents down the plug hole.  Eventually got it turning enough to start and run.  It was a little weak and smoked some, but we're back on the road.

Now boys, you've scored the cylinder.  Its going to consume and burn oil so pay attention.  Each assumed the other would check the oil.

Ran it dry until Seize Incident #2.  Tow it home dad.

Again many hours of twisting the crank and solvents in the plug hole.  On the road again.  Sold it away when they left school.  To my knowledge it is still smoking its way around Santa Cruz.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Most parents know a similar story, Peter. My dad was a drunk. Although he maintained his job well, he was not all that reliable after work.  So as I got close to the age of 16, rebuilding my Suzuki A100 bought-as-a-wreck with the aid of my dad at first, I soon learned not to work on motorcycles when under the influence and basically sacked him. Not that he was hired or got paid, but he destroyed stuff due to not having a clear mind. Sad, since he was a skilled mechanic. However, if he did NOT have his demons that he tried to kill with alcohol, I would probably have relied on him to fix my stuff far longer than I did. Never so bad it ain't good for something 

[faffi]

back in the day, the version I heard was "That guy could tear up an anvil!"

 

a lot of the items on the above list don't seem to be failed items, but just normal wear items.

That is absolutely correct. They share everything with their readers so they get to understand expected tire wear, repairs, fuel and oil consumption, reliability issues etc.

[steven c]

Honda makes a great lawn mower. 

Yes they do! i have a 1985 rear engine rider, 36" cut, runs great starts up every spring with just a couple of turns of the starter.

[AJ Huff]

Did. Past tense. Honda is set to stop production of gasoline powered mowers.for the US market in September selling out remaining inventory though 2024 or until gone.

-AJ

[Huzo]

I’m definitely a Euro bike guy, but I love my SR500.  We owe so much to the Japanese for their contributions to motorcycle technology.

And Huzo, you asked quite a bit of that Honda 90 and it gave you that and more.  That level of quiet reliability has its own romanticism.

I agree completely Scout.
But I took the CT 110 because I knew that any failure would be with me and not the bike, I wanted to test myself not the machine.
If I’d ridden a semi reliable breakdown prone thing, I could have blamed the failure of the trip on that.

But there was nowhere to hide on this venture. Now when I look at my little Honda, I don’t see a “Japanese bike”, I see a monumentally brave and charmingly supportive partner.

Also in the interests of balance..
If I sold a 10 year old Honda CT110 that has 22,000 km on the clock, that would be rather unremarkable….
What makes the difference, is that this one did almost all of that in 6 weeks.
I guess I’m just a hopeless romantic…

[Tom]

SRKCycles review of the SilverWing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIMj_gI1I3s