My Moto Guzzi V7 III TT/NTX/Dual-Sport/Scrambler

[Dirk_S]

Wishing to modify my V7 further to tackle questionable paths AND desiring shorter trail measurement for the sake of my arms when steering the sidecar, I decided to jump for some dual-sport forks with leading axle. The V7 models have used 40mm forks for many years now. I stuck with that size for my search, as I have no want in going to length and changing my triple tree like some Airhead owners do with their dual-sport conversions.

I initially looked at two options—the short-lived, rare (in the Western Hemisphere) V35/65 TT, and the early BMW GS bikes. The TT used smaller forks, so they got the boot. When the BMW R80 G/S evolved into the R80/R100 GS, they jumped up to 40mm forks. I searched and posted, but the few GS forks floating around were out of my price range. I saw one or two other dual sports that were 40mm, but they appeared to be even more obscure. Backtracking to the Guzzi, it turns out the TT’s replacement, the NTX 350/650, got the 40mm fork treatment. A few queries and posts of interest on ADVRider and Facebook over the course of a week led me to a few Italian sellers offering forks for sale. I purchased a set for $275 shipped a month ago, and they arrived one week later.





The forks look pretty straight, but I haven’t taken them apart to see what the internals are like yet--hoping to get to that in the next week. They carry an extra 4” or so in length.

Now Dirk, you might ask, won’t the extra 4” of travel take away the advantage of the reduced trail created by the leading axle and thus negate steering improvement for sidecar use? To that my response is “how did you even know that if you don’t ride sidecars?” But also, I BELIEVE I can raise the forks up in the triples to bring the bike back down and gain that benefit back. Yes…a whole 4” raised up in the triples. I think they clear the handlebars. Tell me why it’s a bad idea.

Anyway.

One advantage of the R80/R100 GS forks is the fork brace: the GS has four mounting points—2 front, 2 rear—for a more substantial hold, whereas the NTX forks utilize a little hoop in the rear that’s thin as spaghetti (crickets). I found that the NTX’s fork leg diameter measures at 57.5mm. The V7 triple sets the forks at 195mm apart, center-to-center, so off I went searching for an aftermarket brace. I discovered Tarzocchi fork braces, and see they make one for an older Yamaha with 58mm fork legs. A bit nervous about the 0.5mm diameter difference, when the brace arrived I tried it out, and it appears to clamp down well enough… hopefully.





The next step was to procure an axle. The NTX front utilizes a 17mm axle, the V7 uses a 20mm axle, so I had a decision to make. Wishing to not deviate too far from stock measurements, I chose to favor the V7 wheels, especially considering my sidecar uses a duplicate front V7 wheel, and that axle is also 20mm. I contemplated purchasing a used V7 axle and drilling out the axle holes in the NTX forks to fit the V7 spindle, but I decided to get an old NTX axle and just see how it fits. In addition to the diameter difference, the NTX forks are 15mm closer (180mm) than the V7 forks (195mm), so axle length could very well be an issue. Luckily on the NTX, the axle’s big end pops out 1-2 cm, so maybe there was a chance it could work.





Received the spare spindle from TLMN and tested it out:

Big end had to be driven all the way near flush with the fork, but it just fits! I lose the hole for easy removal, but I suppose I can just make due with some light taps on the small end to drive it out.





To bring the 17mm diameter of the spindle up to 20mm, I purchased a 20mm OD stainless tube that needed to be turned slightly for the bearings to fit onto. Had a shipyard engineer friend help me out with that one:





Onto figuring out centering and spacers for the wheel. Pretty fortunate that I have a spare front hub sitting around (soon to be used for a 21” wheel build). I looked at the spacers on my V7 and found the right side to be 4mm longer than the left side. Measuring everything on the front hub, I realized it’s not quite as centered as I assumed. There are a couple extra mm on the end of the brake side, which led me to realize I should be focusing more on bearing-to-bearing length. But then I was surprised to discover that the bearing-to-bearing placement isn’t quite centered either, compared to the spoke placement on both sides.  Regardless of the centering find, I figured focusing on the stock spacers’ 4mm difference is all that needs to carry over to the NTX forks and axle.

Another tidbit that shows the gods slightly favor me—or at least like to build a story for an even better fail at the end—the big end of the spindle ends precisely at the hub bearing—when everything is centered. With one thread remaining outside the the small side’s nut, and the big side driven in nearly as far as it should go, that big end terminates perfectly as a spacer. All I did was make that side’s spacer (22mm KTM spacer) match the distance (28mm):







Spacers cut and cleaned up, it was time to mock it up.





Everything looks good so far, and the hub’s centered.

Next up—disassemble/inspect the forks, and begin mocking up the caliper adapter. Looking to keep the V7’s Brembos on for convenience—why bother changing them up?

Anyway.

[bigbikerrick]

Wow, Dirk, Im impressed! That was alot of work, getting things to fit and work properly. I really like how your bike is coming together.   
Rick

[Pescatore]

Whaaaat?  Off-road sidecar? Reminds me of the Vespa trail races.
Interested to see the forks sticking up from the triple. Hopefully still below the top of the handlebars.
Are the clamps strong enough?  Usually the forks have a stop at the top triple.

[Dirk_S]

A year and a half later of distractions and procrastination, and I have enough of an update to share! Note that I changed the title of this thread; the previous title was solely focused on the forks.

Last weekend was yet another rainy one up in Maine. I had recently finished a poster and t-shirt design for Phoenix Cycle Shop’s Blood, Sweat and Gears moto show:



Looking forward to doing a linoleum cut and maybe a full color illustration in time to sell at the show and elsewhere.

With some time to kill in the apartment, I decided to jump back on this V7 ADV build I’ve been slowly working on. Plus, I’m riding out to OH for my former Amish sister’s wedding, and I’d very much like to take the V7 in its finished chubby enduro guise.

I already had the axle figured out back in 2023, having realized the original NTX axle will JUST fit through the forks distanced out to the V7’s specs; the nut/threaded end leaves one extra thread exposed when torqued up, and the other end sits perfectly flush with the axle clamp.

A couple modified end spacers—one off a V7, the other for a KTM—and a long one to make up for the differences in wheel bearing sizes (keeping in mind I chose to stick with the V7 hub for the 21” wheel).



I built the front and rear wheels last year in my new apartment in Maine. Thankful my roommate can handle me occasionally building wheels in the dining room:



For the fork brace, I first tried out a Tarozzi brace. It came too close to the tire, so I added spacers. It still didn’t quite work out, so I searched elsewhere, scanning the webs for bikes that matched the V7 fork distance and NTX leg diameter. Discovered the old T120 and T140 Bonnevilles were right about the same, and found a couple aftermarket options. Went for the Russell James / British Fork Co. fork brace made for those bikes, though I had to get the clamp diameter milled out by a millimeter or so. The fork brace is hefty, adjustable in the right way, looks classic, and has the perfect arch  rise for the 21” tire:



For the brake caliper, I’m keeping the V7’s stock 4 pot Brembo on. When comparing the caliper positioning over the brake rotor, I found the NTX caliper tabs sit 3-4mm farther back from the hub than the tabs on the V7 forks, and the NTX tabs are spaced apart differently from the V7’s. Originally I planned to make a single adaptor machined out of aluminum stock that would recess in 3mm while providing mounting holes for the new caliper position, but once I hit the Bridgeport with a friend, I realized that using two plates cut to shape, the right thickness to recess the caliper, and sandwiching the NTX mounting tabs would be WAY simpler. However—though simpler, it still required some trial and error, multiple mockups. Cardboard and plastic sheets to the rescue. This was the step I JUST finished last weekend:



I know I should’ve taken the forks apart, but I was too anxious and simply trusted the seller that they’re in good condition. When I drained the old oil, added the new 20w Motul fork oil, and began compressing, I get a noise on both forks—not sure if this sound is normal or not. Video link below:

https://youtu.be/Z5EUgzzUMxU?si=WUTeAFdOUnAO_QVB

And so, everything is built and ready to install:



Today I gave myself a 3-hour lunch break to do just that in between rainy sessions. Only got to the front section:



Rocking a bit of a chopper vibe with only the front done. I completely forgot about the speed sensor, so until I make a mount for it, it’ll just be tied up to keep from dangling. I discovered a few years ago that removing / disabling the front wheel speed sensor will disable ABS / traction control as expected, but retains the speedometer function, unlike removing the ABS fuse, which cuts off the entire dash.

Hoping to have time before the weekend to throw on the 180mm Hagon shocks and the 18” rear wheel.

[Parashootist]

Nice work. I just picked up a 2015 v7 special and would like to build it into a scrambler. The 18/21 wheels and longer suspension are definitely things I'd love to do. I wonder how long you can go in the rear before experiencing issues with the joint for the shaft drive?

[Dirk_S]

Nice work. I just picked up a 2015 v7 special and would like to build it into a scrambler. The 18/21 wheels and longer suspension are definitely things I'd love to do. I wonder how long you can go in the rear before experiencing issues with the joint for the shaft drive?

An absolutely valid concern. Bulldog, myself, and a couple others have put longer shocks on our V7 II bikes. Bulldog and I had the same shock length, and he’s noted a few times that his UJ has held up fine. Mine, on the other hand, became quite sticky during a lengthy tour including bumpy forest roads. I also used a sidecar on my V7, and assume that almost certainly added to the stress.

I plan to add the steel spacer into the transmission tunnel that some have installed through the decades on older small blocks. I’ve read this mod is all but mandatory if you’re doing significant off-pavement/off-road to prevent the gearbox from cracking or exploding. (Note that even old GSes had UJ issues, despite being double UJ, beefier driveshafts). If you’re simply doing it for looks, you *might* be fine.

The Netherlands shop that works extensively with the V50 NATO bikes sell the steel spacer, or you can machine your own.

[Dirk_S]

Last week I was able to get the longer rear shocks and 18” wheel installed. I went from 350mm stock to 370mm. That’s the same length the NTX used, but it’s worth noting those motors were titled upward and show less angling of the u-joint/swingarm. The swingarm angle looks pretty similar to the angle that the longer rear shocks on my former V7 II gave. But with the 21/18 wheel setup, this V7 III will be doing even more terrain than that bike did.



Similar weight, ground clearance, and suspension as a new KLR or a BMW R100GS, and power and torque right inbetween those bikes. Next up:

• As noted in the previous comment, I plan to add a steel spacer inside the gearbox output in case the u-joint wants to detonate on me.
• When truing the rear wheel, I didn’t have a proper offset measurement, and I found I’m around 10-15mm off-center. Will have to retrue the spokes sometime, but I currently don’t feel a significant handling loss.
• With the Arrow exhaust in the way of the Givi pannier rack in stock form, I’ve chopped the top mount and added braces down below for the rack to clear the exhaust. It’s good enough to support throwover bags as-is, but at some point I’ll need to create a good, rigid 3-point mounting setup.
• Paint, chop, and install the custom-built aluminum bash plate I bought off a member here.
• Install my Stucchi engine guards
• Get back to the solo seat / fender rack project that’s also been sitting.

Oh…and RIDE SUCKA, RIDE!

[Dirk_S]

Nice work. I just picked up a 2015 v7 special and would like to build it into a scrambler. The 18/21 wheels and longer suspension are definitely things I'd love to do. I wonder how long you can go in the rear before experiencing issues with the joint for the shaft drive?

If you want a solid scrambler look in true form, I’d shoot for slightly longer rear shocks, fork springs, and build a 19” front and an 18” rear. (And of course a high pipe!). A 19” front is on my to-do list farther down the road.

[Moparnut72]

Some of the newer GS's have UJ issues as well. The factory considers them as wear items and replaces them every 30k with no charge. I have read that in more than one place.
kk

[Dirk_S]

Some of the newer GS's have UJ issues as well. The factory considers them as wear items and replaces them every 30k with no charge. I have read that in more than one place.
kk

Thanks for that extra tidbit. Good to know even BMW has issues with their universal joints / driveshafts.

I haven’t read anywhere, but are the small block UJs known to detonate without warning, or does there tend to be a wearing time threshold? In any case, maybe I simply check mine at every oil change and tire swap.

[Bulldog9]

Great work! Far more involved than my simple bolt on mods on the Stornello TT..

I kept the stock forks and added 7.5lb KTEC springs and Hagon 420mm trail shocks. Not as capable as your setup but suit my terrible off road skills.

I bought the Stornello in 2018 and completed the mods by 2020. I wanted a V85 alternative. Has been on all kinds of roads and conditions long distance short, commuter, all weather, and this little plucky bike just keeps getting better. Planning a 3k+ trip over memorial Day.

The bike is great off paved roads, it's my skills that suck.....

[huub]

Thanks for that extra tidbit. Good to know even BMW has issues with their universal joints / driveshafts.

I haven’t read anywhere, but are the small block UJs known to detonate without warning, or does there tend to be a wearing time threshold? In any case, maybe I simply check mine at every oil change and tire swap.

i run a V65TT and a NTX , just pay attention to vibrations in the footrests , when you start feeling vibrations the UJ is on its way out.
if you catch it on time you can just rebuild the UJ. new bearings are cheap. 
the sleeve in the back of the gearbox is highly recommended.
I eventually modified the TT to the point i had 30 cm of front and rear suspension , using a CV joint instead of the UJ.

[Bulldog9]

An absolutely valid concern. Bulldog, myself, and a couple others have put longer shocks on our V7 II bikes. Bulldog and I had the same shock length, and he’s noted a few times that his UJ has held up fine. Mine, on the other hand, became quite sticky during a lengthy tour including bumpy forest roads. I also used a sidecar on my V7, and assume that almost certainly added to the stress.

I plan to add the steel spacer into the transmission tunnel that some have installed through the decades on older small blocks. I’ve read this mod is all but mandatory if you’re doing significant off-pavement/off-road to prevent the gearbox from cracking or exploding. (Note that even old GSes had UJ issues), despite being double UJ, beefier driveshafts. If you’re simply doing it for looks, you *might* be fine.

The Netherlands shop that works extensively with the V50 NATO bikes sell the steel spacer, or you can machine your own.

While my static ride height is over 1" 1.5" if I recall, while seated and loaded is less than .75 and the rear SA is just about level. True I am only at 10K, but so far there is ZERO binding of the U joint. I was running through things today and spun the rear wheel while on the CS. No clicking or binding or anything. Will report back after this upcoming trip to KY, AR, MO and who knows on the return trip.

I pulled the pumpkin and inspected, greased and lubed everything when I put the Shinkos on at 6K miles and all was good. Time will tell. I did try some Off road, and dirt/gravel, etc, but my off road skills are.... well.... just not there.......... When the Shinkos are done, I'm going back to more road tires, maybe a 90/10 or 80/20

[Dirk_S]

Pay the expenses along with a case of beer, and I’ll build you a 19” front wheel. A 19” front with a 17” rear, with good suspension that offers proper static and rider sag, should give you enough confidence for general off-pavement and off-roading. A fat 18” tire just doesnt feel good. You need something thinner and taller to ride over divots and bumps, general handling, and climbing.

Also—If you get an inch or so of rear bounce when lifting up, and both ends compress and rebound equally when sitting and bouncing on the seat, you’re generally pretty set. From there, you simply need to know what a good standing stance is (standing straight with your knees locked is no bueno; be more aggressive). Ironically, and I quickly confess to not being an off-road master, but I found the new model KLR quite a chore to ride while standing during my Chile and Argentina trip, because the footpegs were quite forward and the handlebar back and wide, so it was fairly difficult to stand in that aggressive, athletic stance. Think collegiate wrestler or American football offensive lineman—knees bent and active.

[Bulldog9]

Pay the expenses along with a case of beer, and I’ll build you a 19” front wheel. A 19” front with a 17” rear, with good suspension that offers proper static and rider sag, should give you enough confidence for general off-pavement and off-roading. A fat 18” tire just doesnt feel good. You need something thinner and taller to ride over divers and bumps, and a skinner tire for handling and climbing.

Also—If you get an inch or so of rear bounce when lifting up, and both ends compress and rebound equally when sitting and bouncing on the seat, you’re generally pretty set. From there, you simply need to know what a good standing stance is (standing straight with your knees locked is no bueno; be more aggressive). Ironically, and I quickly confess to not being an off-road master, but I found the new model KLR quite a chore to ride while standing during my Chile and Argentina trip, because the footpegs were quite forward and the handlebar back and wide, so it was fairly difficult to stand in that aggressive, athletic stance. Think collegiate wrestler or American football offensive lineman—knees bent and active.

Thanks for the offer. Alas, my offroad skills have always been bad, long before my skeleton was infused with metal and I was half crippled