My new Roamer - or how to chase vibrations

[Chrull]

After spending six or so years looking at Guzzis I decided to to take action this summer.
A red Roamer was up for sale at a dealer within reasonable distance. When I arrived, rain was pouring down, so no test drive.
What could really be wrong with a bike with less than 5000km anyway?

Traded in my Suzuki and picked up my new italian beauty the next week.





After a few rides in between the constant rain that has been plaguing us poor swedes this summer I started to feel a bit annoyed with the way the bike rides.
When under load, say acceleration or trying to maintain speed up a hill the vibrations seems to be excessive. This happens at any RPM, from lugging to redline. Hefty vibrations in the seat and footpegs.

"Aha! Aftermarket slipons, therefore lean running - my solution is close at hand" I thought foolishly.
Spent an afternoon in the garage polishing the original mufflers and fitting them. - No difference. (But the bike looks better)

Fuel, spark and air. Lets check spark first. Least amount of work...
Gap was 0.8 left, 0.5 right.

*Checks manual*
Workshop manual: 0.6-0.7mm
Owners manual: 0.9mm
 

Guess I'll just set them to - oh no, don't bother. Left plug has a hairline crack.




Orders a new set and the arrive a few days later




Fitted my new plugs and took the bike for a spin (after waiting a couple of days for the rain to clear)
No difference what so ever.

Took it to my local mechanic, who also happens to work on Guzzis.

He took it for a test ride and I asked him if he thought there was anything wrong with it.
"Well, it vibrates more than any v7 or v85 I've ever riden"
- How about any V9 then?
The v9 has sold so poorly that he hardly had worked on any of them, but he didn't think it was anything wrong.

Back home I ordered a paddock stand to do the valve clearances.
Intakes were 0.10 / 0.20mm L/R and exhaust were 0.20 / 0.20mm L/R

Adjusted them to 0.10 / 0.15 as per the manual.

Took here for a spin this afternoon, and whoa, maybe something has changed. Less vibrations as I accelerated up to 100km/h before  running out of road. Turned back and nope. As I turned around I now had the wind against me and the bike starts to vibrate more as the load increased.

Am I losing my mind here? Should my Roamer vibrate as much as my old DR650 when rolling on the throttle?

[tris]

I don't notice a significant amount of vibration on my Roamer,  but I have learnt to ride in a lower gear than I thought.

Does feels like a twin TB engine with out of balance TBs sometimes

The latest map helped a snatchy throttle,  and Todd on Guzzitech recommends VERY regular TPS resets

HTH
Tris

[Dirk_S]

What else has been modified? How about the handlebar? Are the stock bar end weights still attached?

Have you gone through all major chassis connections? Motor mounts?

[RinkRat II]

 
    Look up the values and OHM your wires and plug caps.   Older value was 5000ohms, I don't know if that's changed on the newer bikes. My$.02   

     Paul B

[Chrull]

The latest map helped a snatchy throttle,  and Todd on Guzzitech recommends VERY regular TPS resets

My plan was to get a new map from Beetle for my mistrals, but first I wanted to make sure the bike is in as good running condition as possible... Got my cables for GuzziDiag last week, will do a TPS reset tomorrow.

What else has been modified? How about the handlebar? Are the stock bar end weights still attached?

Have you gone through all major chassis connections? Motor mounts?

Stock except saddle bags, Guzzi original.
I don't feel any vibrations in the bars, and the mirrors are fine. Butt and feet is where it's at.

Haven't checked engine mounts. Will ad that to the list of things to do.

    Look up the values and OHM your wires and plug caps.   Older value was 5000ohms, I don't know if that's changed on the newer bikes. My$.02   

     Paul B

Will ad it to the list :)

[tris]

This thread started by Kiwi Roy might help

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=102451.0

[Chrull]

Had a quick session in the garage before bedtime.
Measured spark plug caps to ground, through the coil. 1.8MOhm on both sides. Looks like there is a diode in there. Reversing the leads gives me an open circuit.
Does anyone know what manual to look for if I want more information on the electrical system? The V9 manual does not cover any electronics.

Edit: The V7III manual cover more of the electronics, and they look to be very similiar. I'll go with that for now :)

[tris]

There's a workshop manual for the bike (ref 2Q000193) and one for the engine (ref 2Q000202) that I found on line, but I can't remember where, maybe guzzitek?

If you can't find them PM me your email address and I'll ping them across.

There's a seperate document for the ECU/TB on the V7 (ref MIU G3 injection V750) that might help

[Chrull]

I do have both 2Q000193 and 2Q000202...

The V7III manual (2Q000297) give me these specs for the coils:

Primary winding resistance: 550 kΩ ±
10%
•
Secondary winding resistance: 3 kΩ ±
10%
•
Tube resistance 5 kΏ

That doesn't sound right to me

[chuck peterson]

Revs above 4k? get worse or better?

Front to back nut and bolt torque check for a few hours on the driveway might be informative..

Ridden any 2 cylinders before this? Was the zuki a 4 cylinder?

Maybe just a seat of the pants difference (!) your suddenly aware of..good to get a second opinion, and he did say not excessive

No vibes in the bars/mirrors is better then the slight wiggle I get looking at the lights behind me at speed

Where’s your shifting point? 3k? 4,5,6k?

 Try running the same speed but different gears…like 60mph in 3rd, 4th, 5th…vibrating more /less?

Just throwing out ideas..

[RinkRat II]

     Your primary resistance should be real low, like .5 to 3or4 ohms. All the other specs look correct.

     Paul B

[bad Chad]

I have a Roamer, I’ve put 15,000 miles on it, and it has no vibration issues.

Just asking, are you coming off inline fours?  Is this the first Guzzi you have ridden?

If so too either, I would get a ride on another, just to have a baseline.  Obviously they vibrate much differently than 3/4 cylinder bikes, but it shouldn’t be aggravating.

[Chrull]

Revs above 4k? get worse or better?

Front to back nut and bolt torque check for a few hours on the driveway might be informative..

Ridden any 2 cylinders before this? Was the zuki a 4 cylinder?

Maybe just a seat of the pants difference (!) your suddenly aware of..good to get a second opinion, and he did say not excessive

No vibes in the bars/mirrors is better then the slight wiggle I get looking at the lights behind me at speed

Where’s your shifting point? 3k? 4,5,6k?

 Try running the same speed but different gears…like 60mph in 3rd, 4th, 5th…vibrating more /less?

Just throwing out ideas..

Only had 2cylinder bikes before this:)
Last bike was a Suzuki SV650x. 90° V-twin with no real vibrations. Before that Kawasaki ER6 with a parallel twin. A bit buzzy at certain revs, but didn't shake my butt angrily :)

I've tried to rev it more, less and inbetween. Seems about the same. Vibrations dies off as soon as the throttle is rolled off.

I really wish the V9 would have a tach. I think my flashing shiftlight is set to 4.5k ish. Steady light at 6. Will have a look.

     Your primary resistance should be real low, like .5 to 3or4 ohms. All the other specs look correct.

     Paul B

That's what I thought aswell. I don't really trust anything written in these manuals.

I have a Roamer, I’ve put 15,000 miles on it, and it has no vibration issues.

Just asking, are you coming off inline fours?  Is this the first Guzzi you have ridden?

If so too either, I would get a ride on another, just to have a baseline.  Obviously they vibrate much differently than 3/4 cylinder bikes, but it shouldn’t be aggravating.

I test rode a Bobber 5 years ago. It was freezing cold and dark, so only a 10min ride. Can't remember any vibrations. Only thing I remember was having a flat tyre on the motorway on the drive home from the dealer.
Also had a short ride on the new V7 850. Don't remember any annoying vibrations.

Next thing to do is to find one of the other 5 people in Sweden who has a Roamer to compare...

[Zenermaniac]

My Roamer has some vibration but I’ve never considered it intrusive. Taking the bar end weights off decreased the “floppy” feeling on bumpy roads. It vibrates more than many other bikes I’ve owned but certainly less than my XS650 and my son’s previous Sportster. I think vibration is mostly relative to an individual’s experience and tolerance.

[MotoG5]

My Roamer has some vibration but I’ve never considered it intrusive. Taking the bar end weights off decreased the “floppy” feeling on bumpy roads. It vibrates more than many other bikes I’ve owned but certainly less than my XS650 and my son’s previous Sportster. I think vibration is mostly relative to an individual’s experience and tolerance.

I agree. I have ridden Guzzis for over fifty years now and the V9 I bought four years ago falls into the general range of vibration I am used to. Some shake more some less but the V9 is not something out of the the feel I would expect. I have run into several folks that tried a Guzzi for the first time and have asked me if what they are feeling is "normal" or is there something wrong.
 




 

[chuck peterson]

You mentioned short mileage, but what about age?

I’ve noticed stories about ujoints going bad after sitting for some years. I’ve guessed with no real facts that…heating/cooling cycles over several years gets moisture trapped in the rubber cover, turning into rust, especially around those itty bitty what evers that are in there. I had a ujoint last a long time, while it was likely screaming in pain while it ate itself.

Any indications from the ujoint area of vibrations? Right foot getting pummeled? Turning the wheel, any resistance against the ujoint? Tight spot?

I have no experience with the small blocks, or the newer bikes. This seemed to be the big block California models that sat too long in a garage

[Chrull]

Update on the torque process.

Engine mount: Two of the nuts on the left side turned slightly before my wrench clicked at 50Nm. Sump and rear of the gearbox.
The rest were rock solid.
The four bolts that joins the frame in front of the engine were good as well.

Checked the nuts holding the exhaust headers.

Whip out my small wrench and set it to 20Nm.
Click, spin, spin and spin in that order. Three of them were seriously lose.
Time for a coffee, cleanup and then go for a test ride.

[faffi]

Following with interest. Mine primarily shake its handlebars, the LHS more than the  RHS. Even at idle, the handlebars visibly shake up and down. Under load, it shake the most. Perhaps a little in the seat as well, never felt anything in the pegs. It is never really bothersome to me, it is not putting fingers to sleep or anything. It is mostly a bother because it feels like the engine is laboring. Lower gears can help a bit, but not eliminate the issue.

[Huzo]

The thing to do is ride a different one.
Then you will know if the problem is in the bike or one of perception.

[Zenermaniac]

Following with interest. Mine primarily shake its handlebars, the LHS more than the  RHS. Even at idle, the handlebars visibly shake up and down. Under load, it shake the most. Perhaps a little in the seat as well, never felt anything in the pegs. It is never really bothersome to me, it is not putting fingers to sleep or anything. It is mostly a bother because it feels like the engine is laboring. Lower gears can help a bit, but not eliminate the issue.

Removing the bar end weights calmed mined down.

[faffi]

Removing the bar end weights calmed mined down.

Interesting! Worth a try. Thank you for the tip

[Chrull]

Update 2:

Took the bike for a spin after my adventures with the torque wrench. No difference. Might actually be worse. Or am I getting fed up with it?
Same hefty vibrations when rolling on the throttle.

Tried to keep track of shift points.
First to second at 30km/h or above. Second to third at 60km/h. Fourth is sort of usable from ~80km/h.
No way to get into 6th at legal speed.
Rolling on the throttle in 4th at 80km/h is possible but it feels strained.  Low power paired with tall gearing   

Dug out my trusty big single, the DR650 and went for a quick ride to the shops. Some vibrations at high RPM but smother than the Guzzi. Only when lugging the engine could the DR rival the V9.

The thing to do is ride a different one.
Then you will know if the problem is in the bike or one of perception.

Yes, this is the only real solution, unless I can actually find something wrong.

[faffi]

That sounds severe! On level ground, if I am gentle with the throttle, I can accelerate with minimal vibrations from and honest 30 mph (50kph indicated)  in 6th gear with mine. It is going uphill, over distance, where there is too little power to accelerate easily, that my handlebars bounce and the engine feels unhappy. Mostly in 6th, 5th and sometimes 4th gear with speeds ranging from 45 mph (70 kph) up to 70 mph (110 kph) or so.

[Chrull]

That sounds severe! On level ground, if I am gentle with the throttle, I can accelerate with minimal vibrations from and honest 30 mph (50kph indicated)  in 6th gear with mine. It is going uphill, over distance, where there is too little power to accelerate easily, that my handlebars bounce and the engine feels unhappy. Mostly in 6th, 5th and sometimes 4th gear with speeds ranging from 45 mph (70 kph) up to 70 mph (110 kph) or so.

Are you trying to gaslight me?   

Took a few hours off work today, loaded the bike in the van and drove to the dealer. Their Guzzi guy was back from vacation and was happy to give it a test ride.
Came back after 2 minutes and told me at ran just like a V9 should.

Not really sure where to go from here....

[Dirk_S]

I wonder if the flywheel was properly installed balance-wise.

[bad Chad]

Sounds to me like your best option is to figure out if it's the bike, or you?   Unless you're really confident in the tech at the shop, I wouldn't be satisfied with him telling you, it's normal.   You did say you had a couple short rides on two other Guzzi, but said both rides had limitations.   I would go to the dealer and ask them to let you ride a late model v7.    Ride the v9 to the dealer, then get on the v7, Vibration wise, the two bikes should be quite close.   You should be able to tell within a few klic's if it's a "Guzzi thing" or it's your v9!   

[tris]

Right!
I've just come back from a 50 mile loop on my V9 Roamer and was pondering your problem.

I found that if I got the bike to 40 MPH and then banged the throttle open in ....

5th - it vibrated a lot
4th - it vibrated enough to notice it
3rd - virtually no vibration and took off like a scalded cat

If you're gentle though it will accelerate reasonably  in any of them

If you trust your mechanic that there nothing fundamentally wrong mechanically, I suggest that before you sign it's death warrant,  you go for a decent ride and consciously ride 1 or 2 gears lower than you expect to.

For me the rules are
Up to 30 MPH 1st or 2nd as appropriate
Up to 40 MPH 3rd
Up to 50 MPH 4th
etc.

Took me a while to work that out by the way, and the bike is much happier I think

[Tkelly]

Maybe Tris can take a ride to your place and you can compare the 2 bikes.Just a short jaunt right?

[tris]

Simples - only the North Sea an a bit if Norway between us or I'd do so willingly   

[Moparnut72]

After reading this thread I an getting the feeling that the OP is not winding it out. Guzzis like to be wound up. They tend to shutter a bit at lower revs with a load. On my V7lll 3k is about as low as I go and mainly in lower gears.   
kk