Author Topic: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him  (Read 11848 times)

Offline normzone

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[Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« on: October 19, 2023, 12:41:24 PM »
Hello again, all -

wirespokes has my old Bassa - he's a pretty clever fellow, but I wanted to ask the lot of you to offer technical support to him if you will.

The bike still suffers from poor fuel economy, I never did resolve that issue. And any counsel you can lend him regarding synching up throttle bodies and all that good stuff would be helpful as well. I have added a few links from my bookmarks.

I know I can count on your collective good will - I haven't seen him post here yet on this topic, so I thought I'd ask on his behalf, as part of my entering "currently between Guzzi's" status.

Thanks again for all your help -
normzone

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/

An old GuzziDiag link - I believe there are updated ones now
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=69168.0

Tuneup counsel from the V11LeMans folks
https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/topic/19610-decent-tune-up/

More tuneup counsel
https://archive.guzzitech.com/EVTuneup-Jeff_B.html

throttle body sync google
https://www.google.com/search?q=throttle+body+sync&sitesearch=wildguzzi.com%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Fboard%3D1.0&start=0&num=100







« Last Edit: October 19, 2023, 02:01:59 PM by normzone »
That's the combustion chamber of the turbo shaft. It is supposed to be on fire. You just don't usually see it but the case and fairing fell off.

Offline Tom H

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2023, 09:08:31 PM »
Sad to hear you let your old baby go  :sad:

Hope fully you can bet back into the riding mode in the near future :thumb:

If Henshaw comes back around, I'll put you up in a cabin if I can make it :cool:

Tom
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Offline wirespokes

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2023, 10:27:10 PM »
Yes, I bought Norman's Bassa and rode it home from San Diego. I laid over at some friends place in Long Beach for a couple weeks helping them out and getting the Bassa ready for the long haul back to Portland Oregon. First on the agenda was air pressure - both were way down, like 24 and 15. Getting any air into them torqued the valve stems and what was in there escaped. So, without my tire tools I broke the beads, reached in and undid the valve stems. They're 90 degree after-market with oring seals on the outside. The orings were toast. Since all my orings were at home, I shoe-goo'd them and they sealed. The aftermarket crashbars weren't attached at the lower end which essentially left that frame fixing point un-fixed. The crash bar rattled against the frame and sounded like a rod knock. Prices for stuff in LA are crazy - I spent close to ten bucks for a couple allen bolts, nuts and washers. The wonky rear turn signals got replaced with the undamaged front ones, and the fronts got replaced with some decent asian signals. And, of course, I got rid of the bar-backs first thing. I'm into the sportier bikes and that riding position so it was a step in the right direction. I've always had bikes with low bars, so having a Cali with floor boards and wide bars is an entirely new experience. I feel pretty clumsy on it.

I left Long Beach early on a week day and didn't get to Santa Barbara until noon. Man - surface streets were not the way to go!

Visited a friend in Santa Barbara for an hour or two then headed up 101 towards San Francisco. It was nice weather and it was especially comfortable behind a big old barn door.

I had a friend in Berkeley I'd intended on seeing, but he didn't get back to me with his address. Since it was a fairly warm evening I kept on riding getting through the bay area around ten or so. By the time I got to I-5 north of Sacramento I was ready to crash. Pulled into a rest stop and slept and hour or two. Did that a couple more times and then just before dawn pulled into South Weed for gas. After fueling, the bike was dead. Flicked the kill switch a couple times. key on/off a couple times. Nothing. I was starting to feel kinda fuuk'd. But then my better instincts kicked in and figured I'd do something simple like check the fuses. Not much hope, but hell, worth a try. What do you know - a blown fuse!!!

Went back into the gas station mini mart and asked for fuses. Nope... oh wait - he went back to one of the end of one of the aisles and came back with a little package. Said " these have been back there forever - maybe they'll work?" Sure enough, they were the right ones and there were two 15s in the assortment. I'm starting to feel luckier...

Went outside and it's getting light now. Wonder if I should put in a different fuse than a 15 in case the new one also blows, then I'll only have one left. Oh hell, just stick it in! It didn't blow!! I'm feeling better now. :-)

Gear all back on, turn the key and now the pump comes on, but only a click from the starter. (not feeling so hot again)

A guy was walking out to his car-hauler from the mini-mart so asked him for a jump. He came over with his remote starter pack. Gear back off, I unpacked to get at the seat and the battery. Hooked up the battery pack and it registered 12.8 volts. I'm concerned the battery died showing voltage but no amperage. That was the only thing that made any kind of sense. Anyway, I hit the magic button, and hey, she started up. But...

The guy says "looks like you've got a leak".

Sure enough, there's a big puddle under the bike. Turn off the engine and dripping stops. He unhooks the battery pack anbd takes offl. I'm kinda worried. When I get the leak fixed, will it start again?

The only fuel line I can see is the one coming from the tank so I tighten the clamp a couple turns. It's got a steel mesh covering so I'm not real sure it had any effect, but sure enough - key on, no leak. Bike starts right up. No clue what happened before but now it's all good.

Norman dropped the bomb on me when I picked up the bike that he figured he was getting something like 25 mpg. So far the bike had been running just fine and was closer to the 40 mpg mark. It's possible low tire pressure, high speeds with a barn door fairing and not using fifth gear (he never told me what he had against fifth) contributed heavily to the poor mileage. The mileage improved a few mpg after tightening the fuel line clamp. Go figure.

So I kept riding. An hour or so later I'm heading up the Siskiyous and it's raining - been dry and warm up till this point. Get close to the summit and it's snowing. It's that wet snow and it's coming down heavy. I wipe the visor and it's instantly covered. Can't see squat. Open the visor and it stings my eyes. And, as if that isn't bad enough, the inside of the visor is all fogged also. If I wipe the visor, the next instant I'm heading towards the edge of the lane. Spooky shit!!! So I manage to pull in behind a slow moving semi and plant myself right there. another couple miles and the snow is replaced by heavy rains. Big relief, but I'm getting soaked - wasn't prepared for this. At the bottom is a rest stop, I pull out the rain gear, warm up my hands in the hand dryer (it blew mostly cold air) then fumbled into the rain gear.

Several hours later it had cleared up and was pretty nice. I was starting to nod off, twice, so pulled off at the next rest stop. Got off the bike and laid down on the grass. Fell instantly asleep. Now, my phone was dead and there's no clock on the bike. But from the gas station receipts it appears I slept of a couple hours. I must have been quite a sight lying on my back with all my gear on including my helmet. LOL

So I made it home and have been fiddling with the bike ever since. I've gotten the speedometer working and replaced the tach. Gotta have gauges! I've cleaned up the wheels and got the corrosion off the chrome. And then there's the little stuff like clutch lever bushing (the old one was so worn it was demolishing cables), adjusting shifter linkeage, and don't recall what all else.

I've been trying to figure out how to adjust the throttle bodies, but they don't seem to conform to the different tutorials I've read. And I'm afraid of twisting the wrong screw. John Croucher said to check the butterfly seals, so that might be my next task. When I screw in the air bleeds almost all the way, it idles at 1000 rpm, but looks to be very rich. From what I've read, the air bleeds should be out a 1/2 to 3/4 turn. But then it idles at 1300.

The valve were set at something like 8 and 10, and if I'm remembering correctly, that was 10 intakes. It was something crazy like that. So now they're at 4 and 6. It's feels like it's running rough and needs balancing - in the worst way, so that's where I'm stuck right now. Richardson gives detailed instructions for the Bassa and in one of the steps says to adjust the thumb screw on the bottom side of the left throttle body. No thumb screws here. So I'm lost. I'm thinking I need to take the pin gauges and measure just how far open each butterfly really is and record that data in case I mess things up.

I tell you, I'm not a big fan of FI - much prefer carbs. And on top of that, I think I like a distributor and points also. Not having a way to control timing and idle speed is driving me nuts.

I tried to remove the cam sensor but it's extremely tight. I could wiggle it up maybe a quarter inch, but that was about it. I eventually just set it back down and tightened it up.

Now, that brings me to another question - the temp sensor in the right cylinder, head or whatever. It looks to be original and probably plastic, but I'm not sure. It kind of looks coppery, but I have a feeling it was made to fool me. Where do I get a proper metal one? I've got the new sensor but don't want to touch the old one till the new mount is handy.

Do I like the bike? I think so. I think I'd like it just fine if it was all tuned and adjusted. But, you know, I've realized that a bike like this doesn't give me the satisfaction I get riding the LeMans or similar. It's got gobs of power and sounds nice, but to me it's just transportation - like a car. Well, maybe not that bad, but I'm kinda bored riding it. I never thought I could feel that way riding a bike. But I do. So eventually i'll probably wind up re-doing it with a LM tank and seat and perhaps a full on racing style fairing - I do like having the protection this winter.

Offline ray bear

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2023, 10:51:10 PM »
Hi Wirespokes , that was a great bit of reading and adventure, you had me riveted to the screen, I always look forward to Nick Adams adventures  but what a story, hope to hear more of your adventures. And hope you get the bike sorted  :popcorn:
« Last Edit: December 17, 2023, 10:55:19 PM by ray bear »
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Offline normzone

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2023, 11:35:41 PM »
Adventure on two wheels! I can picture you sleeping in your helmet, been there, done that.

I pulled the original mount for the sensor and replaced it with the metal one, and after reading the elaborate series of arguments on the matter on the forum (which, after all the arguments, boiled down to "technically, it can't make a difference") crafted a homemade copper spring to go from the bottom of the sensor well to touch the base of the sensor mount because it amused me to do so.

Got the speedometer working? Medical school misses you, there is a shortage of skilled surgeons.

If it gives you 40 mpg, then it's a show of respect from the bike. It started out like that with me also.

I agree with you on carbs, points, and a distributor.
That's the combustion chamber of the turbo shaft. It is supposed to be on fire. You just don't usually see it but the case and fairing fell off.

Offline John A

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2023, 12:24:28 AM »
On the cam sensor being tight, what happens is the body swells and gets tight in the hole. It will come out but I would only take it out if I was going to replace it. It seems to me ever one with a swelled up body is dying but I don’t know that for sure
John
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Online Cam3512

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2023, 06:32:25 AM »
Adventure?  Sounds like a nightmare to me.  Sending him off with those tire pressures, leaking fuel, crap battery, is inexcusable. 
« Last Edit: December 18, 2023, 06:58:00 AM by Cam3512 »
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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2023, 07:21:46 AM »
I was thinking the same but I also wasn’t there so who knows the terms and conditions. Beside that it was well written and a great read, I could picture it as if I was there, wirespokes has a talent for writing.

Offline normzone

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2023, 12:35:44 PM »
"Sending him off with those tire pressures, leaking fuel, crap battery, is inexcusable."

When I last rode it a couple of months prior, tire pressures were fine, it had never leaked fuel, and I put a new battery in it for him the week before he got here.

But the story IS more entertaining without those details.  :thumb:
That's the combustion chamber of the turbo shaft. It is supposed to be on fire. You just don't usually see it but the case and fairing fell off.

Online Huzo

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2023, 02:04:17 PM »
Adventure?  Sounds like a nightmare to me.  Sending him off with those tire pressures, leaking fuel, crap battery, is inexcusable.
Well, he didn’t exactly “send him off” anywhere..
Did I read that he is a surgeon ? He probably knows how to make command decisions. Also, the title says “my old ‘Bassa”.
Can I ask what the bike is that he bought ?
I thought a ‘Bassa was an Ambassador.


What am I not understanding ?
 Encountering adversity on long trips is something I can relate to, at least he didn’t try to set it on fire…!
« Last Edit: December 18, 2023, 02:20:20 PM by Huzo »

Online kidsmoke

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2023, 03:14:17 PM »
Can I ask what the bike is that he bought ?
I thought a ‘Bassa was an Ambassador.
What am I not understanding ?

Bassa was a full dress version of the Tonti California, much like the EV. Tubeless wheels and a fair amount of bling are the main differentiators between it and other 1100 Cali's

this photo is simply a Bassa from the interwebs. Along with the CalVin, the finest iteration of the breed, in my view



« Last Edit: December 18, 2023, 03:16:42 PM by kidsmoke »
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Online Huzo

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2023, 06:55:39 PM »
Bassa was a full dress version of the Tonti California, much like the EV. Tubeless wheels and a fair amount of bling are the main differentiators between it and other 1100 Cali's

this photo is simply a Bassa from the interwebs. Along with the CalVin, the finest iteration of the breed, in my view


Ahhh.
Thank you.

Offline John A

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2023, 07:12:02 PM »
I was told that Bassa means low in Italian but that is probably incorrect.
Its other name is Special Sport. Basically an EV with different bars, lower seat, adjustable fork damping and tubeless spoke wheels. They moved the smaller 15 M computer to the left side under the side cover to lower the seat. Miserable bikes, they never wear out. They came out in ‘99, I bought one new and I still have it and still like it.
John
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It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled-Mark Twain
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Online Guzzidad

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2023, 07:53:52 PM »
I was told that Bassa means low in Italian but that is probably incorrect.
Its other name is Special Sport. Basically an EV with different bars, lower seat, adjustable fork damping and tubeless spoke wheels. They moved the smaller 15 M computer to the left side under the side cover to lower the seat. Miserable bikes, they never wear out. They came out in ‘99, I bought one new and I still have it and still like it.
    Not quite true John. The Special Sport is a different model. Bassa had pearl paint, SS had two tone paint. SS had tube tires and non-adjustable fork damping.

Offline John A

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2023, 08:25:44 PM »
I thought they were the same. What years were the Special Sports?
John
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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2023, 09:00:20 PM »
   Mine was an 02. I think they were also available as an 01. This was mine.

   Commonly known as the copper top. Others had a red and black paint job.

Offline wirespokes

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2023, 09:18:02 PM »
Yup - that's what this Bassa looks like - even the pearl paint. It's gorgeous - makes me want to leave it as it is, even though I'm not into cruisers.

Nope, not a surgeon! Norman just said that because if I could take care of the things I have, then I should have been.

The battery is good - I have no clue why it didn't start that one time after replacing the fuse. That's one of the reasons I'm not into FI bikes - the more complex they are the harder it is to troubleshoot. I've read explanations why it was necessary to transition to FI, but my thought is that it's easier to produce and requires less work in a service. So far, I haven't seen better fuel economy than carburetors and high pressure fuel kinda scares me. I also prefer manually operated petcocks with reserve positions, rather than dodgy low fuel lights.

There are more stories I can tell. Let's see...

You know, after getting home I told my friend in Santa Barbara how the trip had gone. His comment "I've had many of the same adventures, but not all on the same trip!" LOL

Norm might not know that I repair BMW airhead speedometers as my retirement job. I'm always backlogged a few months at least. But fixing this speedometer was a challenge. Especially since all my tools were 1000 miles away in Portland. My friend is a top-notch appliance repairman and one of his neighbors is a handyman so I did have some tools at hand, but speedos are a lot like watch or clock repair requiring different and finer tools.

First problem was removing the bezel. Veglia made them out of stainless and let me tell you, they are S T I F F !!!  it's nice they don't get dented, corroded or rusted, but uncrimping them is a major undertaking. It's a JOB. So once it was opened up and got a look inside, it was obvious the main needle shaft bushing was ultra sloppy. I've worked on Veglias on the LM4, T3 and others, and hadn't run into this problem before. To get at that sloppy bushing requires removing the hairspring which is held in place on the shaft with a split collar. It's on there very tight and I tried budging it with a screw driver and twisting a little bit, but realized that any more pressure would torque the shaft to the side and possible bend or snap it. So I went looking for another small screwdriver so I could lever from two sides at once. Lever it straight up. I put down the work and while I was searching for another screw driver, my friend picked it up and did just what I'd been doing and snapped the shaft. Damn!!!

My friend lives in Bellflower about 20 miles from Signal Hill. So... a trip to Moto Classics was DEFINITELY in order. A day or two later I was talking to Mark and he had a good used speedo for eighty or a hundred. After digging around in his junk pile, came up with one just like mine, but only half there. Price was right (free) and since it appeared to have a good shaft I left with high hopes of getting the thing up and running.

So - how to remove the hairspring without snapping the shaft? Levering with two screw drivers didn't do it. Then I had the bright idea to jam a wedge (dinky screwdriver) into the split of the ring and force it apart a little. Success - that worked.

Now I had the shaft out, and inspected the bushing. It too was very sloppy. Both of these bushings appeared to have never had any lubrication, and another inspected later also looked to have never been lubed. Perhaps this was one of the reasons for these gauges failing? Seems likely.

Ok - how to fix a sloppy bronze bushing??? I went to sleep chewing on that one. Possibly fill the hole with epoxy - but how to keep the opening centered? Came up with the idea to place three strands of copper wire in the hole. My friend couldn't find his soldering iron, so bought one so I could use it. I soldered in three strands of wire and then just kept going and filled the whole thing with solder - with the needle shaft inserted. The solder didn't stick to the shaft thankfully. Problem solved. I was really proud of that one!

So then it all went back together, though the odometer jammed about 100 miles later, and the trip meter only tripped the 1s digit, so I never reset it. At least the trip meter did track mileage for gas stops. The solder-fix held up the whole trip home and was still tight, though I did replace it with a proper bronze bushing. I've pulled the speedo (many times over) and made everything right Well, it wasn't as simple as it sounds or that straight-forward. I think I've removed it ten times, and as recently as today, making adjustments. The most recent was that it read about right at 60, but when it read 30, actual speed was around 25. Played around with it four or five hours yesterday and finally got it reading correctly and re-installed. Fingers crossed - I think it's DONE!!!

I've got an M2.5 Left hand tap and die coming so I can repair the trip meter on one of the spare gauges. The trip knob at some point must have gotten bumped which snapped off the threaded end. I'll be making a knob plus the shaft it attaches to.

I feel like I've graduated a course in Veglia speedo repair.

I'm not much on posting photos, but I'll see what I can do. Hope you're not upset with me Norm for taking paint remover to the valve covers. They're not flat black anymore. I found the seat pretty comfortable, but don't understand why the passenger section was cut off?

Offline normzone

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2023, 01:22:12 AM »
It's your bike now, and I'm eager to see you do as you please with it.

The passenger part of the seat was long gone, when I got it the P.O. original had done good things and bad things to the seat.

The front part was a custom Russell seat, unfortunately sized for somebody about a foot shorter than I.

And the back part was this seperate painful little hard thing about the size of a burrito like they used to do on hard tail choppers sixty plus years ago - it hurt to sit on even in the parking space. 

It's difficult to say why people do what they do with bikes - this one looked new when I got it, but immediately began shedding it's plastichrome and spitting instruments.
That's the combustion chamber of the turbo shaft. It is supposed to be on fire. You just don't usually see it but the case and fairing fell off.

Offline Vagrant

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2023, 10:52:53 AM »
It's your bike now, and I'm eager to see you do as you please with it.

The passenger part of the seat was long gone, when I got it the P.O. original had done good things and bad things to the seat.

The front part was a custom Russell seat, unfortunately sized for somebody about a foot shorter than I.

And the back part was this seperate painful little hard thing about the size of a burrito like they used to do on hard tail choppers sixty plus years ago - it hurt to sit on even in the parking space. 

It's difficult to say why people do what they do with bikes - this one looked new when I got it, but immediately began shedding it's plastichrome and spitting instruments.


The not starting was most likely the ignition switch is dirty or worn. Spray some electrical cleaner through it. Next replace all the relays with 5 prongs so you can rotate them forward one notch if you ever have an issue again. Flush the holder with cleaner too. I'd replace all the fuses and clean it's holder too. They get brittle with age.
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Offline wirespokes

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2023, 05:19:53 PM »
Thanks, Vagrant. Good advice! The bike lived many years in San Diego, outside under a carport. I know how foggy it can get, so even though it was fifteen or twenty miles from the ocean, the salty marine foggy air performed its magic. Not as bad as I'd have thought, but the chrome and aluminum suffered. The aluminum can be polished up (and mostly has been now) but the chrome has little spots and bubbles. it looks pretty good at five feet, but any closer and you can see its compromised. However, I figure with a good coat of wax, it should be pretty stable.

Norm - so the temp sensor mount was replaced. Cool! But the sensor wasn't? You gave me a new one - correct? I"ll have to test it and see how it's doing.

Ok - I won't fuss with the cam position sensor. Thanks for the advice, and i'll have to pay attention to it.

When I saw Mark at Moto Classics I asked him about an ignition switch mount for a T3. He said he'd keep an eye out and when he ran across one, he'd set it out for me.

So the second time I went back to see if he had any other parts I needed, including the ignition switch mount. This time he wasn't as friendly as last time. I'm good friends with a previous business partner of his from the early 90s , Joshua, who has been selling BMW parts all this time. In fact, during my 'divorce years' in the late 90s in LA, I spent a day per week helping him out with his parts business doing whatever was needed, dismantling, cleaning, fixing up bikes, advice, helping with several moves, etc. Joshua told me later that it's pretty normal for Mark to fly-off-the handle at people and play games on them.

I asked Mark about the ignition switch holder and he went over to the one he'd found and asked how much i was willing to spend. Then he went into a tirade about how he'd bet his helper I wouldn't spend $20. That I was cheap and wouldn't spend what stuff is worth. He then told me it was worth $40 and showed me a listing on ebay where one was being offered at that price. And, he said, there would be shipping on top of the ebay offering as well. All of this in an angry tone. He asked if I still wanted it, which I didn't, and he threw it at the work bench. One of the things he told me (a few times) was that he knew I was cheap because I'd gotten a hydro pushrod from him a month before and I'd balked at $20 - for a rare item i wasn't going to find anywhere else.

Truth is, I was very happy at the time he had the pushrod and $20 was more than acceptable. However, in talking with him a little more about a few other things I needed, he told me to look again, that the parts I needed may still be there. What i needed were special head nuts, and sure enough, they were still in the sockets where they normally lived. So I got back to him telling him I didn't need those other parts and to just send the pushrod.

Evidently Mark forgot about that and I hit a hot button with him. I do find it humorous someone getting upset about us cheap Guzzi owners. :-)

I left his shop empty handed that day. But I did get an ignition switch holder from photoguzzi a few weeks ago. Thanks, photo!

Offline normzone

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2023, 10:52:05 PM »
I do not recall specifically whether the sensor itself was replaced in that round, but I'll wager it was because at that time I was doing everything I could, based on advice from threads here in the forum, to solve the poor fuel economy problem.

And I didn't have any problem with throwing money at potential solutions, so if somebody said something might be an influence on that, I went ahead and swapped out the component in question if I could get one.
That's the combustion chamber of the turbo shaft. It is supposed to be on fire. You just don't usually see it but the case and fairing fell off.

Offline John A

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2023, 11:37:43 PM »
The way I solved the poor mileage on my Bassa is I took the leads from the temp sensor in the right cylinder head and ran it through a dpdt switch through or around a 5k (IIRC, consult chart) resistor. So it shows the ecu it’s either cold or fully warmed up, depending on the switch position. I use it as an electric choke, it won’t start cold without it. It runs about the same either way except in warmed position it can get 50 mpg if I run close to the speed limits.
Edit: the ecu gets its signal from either the original sensor or a resistor with an ohms rating corresponding to a fully warmed engine. I tried a rheostat and it worked but was not necessary.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2023, 10:12:41 PM by John A »
John
MGNOC L-471
It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled-Mark Twain
99 Bassa, sidecar
02 Stone
84 V65C
15 F3S Spyder

Online Tkelly

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2023, 09:27:04 AM »
I don’t know Mark but I know some other small shop and parts suppliers and ran my own small business before retirement.What we all had in common were dealings with customers who took up a lot of our time and efforts then complained about the cost.Cheap was only the first word we called them.If the shoe fits…

Offline wirespokes

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2023, 10:34:58 PM »
John - That sounds like good data. Let's see if I understand what you did: The ECU 'sees' one of two circuits - #1. The stock temp sensor in the right side head, or #2. A 5K ohm resistor.

When the engine is warmed up, the temp sensor should have 5K resistance?

Tkelly -  May all your dealings with Mark be joyful and pleasant.  :-)

Does anyone know the o-ring size for the bypass screws?

Thanks, Norm. Now that I know the holder isn't the cheapo plastic part, I can check it all out.

One other question - does anyone know what these electrical connectors are called? I'd like to make a test harness for the TPS.

« Last Edit: December 21, 2023, 10:38:52 PM by wirespokes »

Offline John A

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2023, 11:30:35 PM »
Yep, you got it. I wouldn’t use that resistor unless I checked the chart in the injection supplement, I didn’t have a quick link. It really does work well and a similar setup is used on 98 EV’s
John
MGNOC L-471
It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled-Mark Twain
99 Bassa, sidecar
02 Stone
84 V65C
15 F3S Spyder

Offline wirespokes

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2023, 11:58:43 AM »
John - I'll have to locate the injection supplement. This FI stuff is a new ballgame for me.

I realized a DPDT switch isn't needed. The returns (grounds) can be tied together and a single pole switch directs current either to the sensor or the resistor.


Ok - I looked around for sensor specs and finally found the data in Guzziology. Dave says all the MG sensors have the same values. At 30F resistance should be around 10K ohms, gradually getting less until about 260F it's 100 ohms.

A resistance of 5K would approximate a temp of about 60F. That's essentially an engine at room temp. 

What makes sense to me is giving the ECU a fully warmed up reading, otherwise it's adding fuel. A cool engine needs a richer mix. If the mapping is calling for a leaner mix than optimum, then reporting a cooler temp would help. But only at those particular RPMs where it runs lean.

I'll have to monitor the temp sensor to see if it's reading correctly first, then go from there. If it reads higher than acceptable resistance when warmed up, then it could explain running rich. In my experience, bikes run the best, and get the best mileage, when the mixture is correct.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2023, 01:04:40 PM by wirespokes »

Offline John A

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2023, 01:32:11 PM »
I was going off memory but I think you got the right idea.it was almost thirty years ago and it’s worked for over 100k miles. When I did it I used a resistor the same value as a fully warmed engine, I don’t remember what that particular value is. We played with it on the dyno and it worked there . I don’t remember why I used a dpdt switch, it may have just been what I had for it has an aviation switch cover on it. So I open the cover, flip the switch to use the sensor for a cold start and depending on ambient temp, close the cover which puts the signal to the resistor and forget about it until the next cold start when it’s hard to start until I switch it to the sensor. That’s why I don’t use it on the wife’s bike, it adds complexity which is hard for her to comprehend. She called once this summer because of the kill switch being in off position after her brothers pushed her around a parking lot for a while trying to get it started. I was happy it was an easy fix over the fone!
John
MGNOC L-471
It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled-Mark Twain
99 Bassa, sidecar
02 Stone
84 V65C
15 F3S Spyder

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2023, 02:40:47 PM »
John - I'll have to locate the injection supplement. This FI stuff is a new ballgame for me.

I realized a DPDT switch isn't needed. The returns (grounds) can be tied together and a single pole switch directs current either to the sensor or the resistor.


Ok - I looked around for sensor specs and finally found the data in Guzziology. Dave says all the MG sensors have the same values. At 30F resistance should be around 10K ohms, gradually getting less until about 260F it's 100 ohms.

A resistance of 5K would approximate a temp of about 60F. That's essentially an engine at room temp. 

What makes sense to me is giving the ECU a fully warmed up reading, otherwise it's adding fuel. A cool engine needs a richer mix. If the mapping is calling for a leaner mix than optimum, then reporting a cooler temp would help. But only at those particular RPMs where it runs lean.

I'll have to monitor the temp sensor to see if it's reading correctly first, then go from there. If it reads higher than acceptable resistance when warmed up, then it could explain running rich. In my experience, bikes run the best, and get the best mileage, when the mixture is correct.

The FI on your bike is primitive but certainly functional.
Information is based on a Bassa print I found without knowing what year your bike is so there might be changes from the one I found.

You have 4 players in the game, engine temp, air temp, pressure and TPS that determine fueling.
Engine temp, you’re familiar with this one.
Air temp, also an NTC, and used for air density.
Pressure sensor, could be piezo type, used for atmospheric pressure, altitude compensation. This one is built into the ECU.
TPS, variable and the major player in this system.
Check the sensors you can, engine and air temp (watch the range for opens as the meter reading changes as temp changes, don’t mistake an auto range meter for a blip).
Set the TPS as accurately as humanly possible.

Playing with sensor resistance is as old as fuel injection itself. You can find some improvement messing with it but it can be a tedious waste of time. If there is an issue requiring large changes it’s an indication that one of the sensors needs to be replaced. Normally you should be just fine as designed unless there was a major f-up with the design).



Offline wirespokes

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2023, 12:24:56 PM »
Thanks, John. Sounds like we're on the same page.

Hat - in this case, it's quite possible the sensors never did give the correct data to the computer. I'll check it out and go from there. I'm like 25 years behind the times, but hey - I'm into old stuff so that's how it goes. i tried to stay away from FI bikes for the last 20 years after riding an R11S for several. I've found the older technology to be more robust, simpler, better economy and not lacking in power. It's a little more fiddly, but I prefer the trade-off, and besides, I can optimize the older stuff myself whereas the newer stuff is built to be untouchable. I'm still debating whether to convert this thing to 40mm carbs and ditch the pump and other complexities. These older bikes are now going pretty cheap so it's difficult to ignore them - and here I am.

Offline normzone

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Re: [Wirespokes] has my old Bassa - Please support him
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2023, 01:36:08 PM »
In the collection I stuffed in the saddlebag is a new air temp sensor in a 2 1/2" cardboard box - it's a little resistor that mounts under the front ride side of the gas tank.

The couple of times I've had diagnostics hooked up that sensor would sometimes read error messages - If you've not installed it yet it couldn't hurt. When I'd test the sensor value on the bike it would show nominal, but who knows?

It would be fascinating  to watch you take the bike to carbs, better you than me.  :popcorn:
That's the combustion chamber of the turbo shaft. It is supposed to be on fire. You just don't usually see it but the case and fairing fell off.


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