Has anyone ever carbed a Norge ?

[Huzo]

Can it be done ?
Should it be done ?
What ridiculous gremlins could/would it conceivably introduce into an already “foolproof”  system ?
Grafting the hardware onto the bike would not faze me, but the potential electronic gremlins would keep me awake at night.
BTW…
Don’t tell me…”I wouldn’t bother…”

[piecemealadventurer]

I think you should only do it with a set of old amal cards where you have to prime them to start the bike!!!

[Shorty]

Can it be done ?
Should it be done ?
What ridiculous gremlins could/would it conceivably introduce into an already “foolproof”  system ?
Grafting the hardware onto the bike would not faze me, but the potential electronic gremlins would keep me awake at night.
BTW…
Don’t tell me…”I wouldn’t bother…”

Depending on the limit of your madness,    you could find a way to put a magneto on it, with a simple "kill" switch. A pair of 36 or 40mm carbs ought to do. Then you could fit the biggest gravity fed petrol tank imaginable. Not sure what all nanny wiring need to be  bypassed/altered to maintain the starter and charging systems. OR:  I'm not sure if an older Guzzi camshaft with dizzy gear on it will retrofit to the Norge engine. My Guzzi experience ends at about Model 1993, lol. If so, you could machine a hole for either a distributor, or the above mentioned  magneto. Anyway you do it would require some Appalachian Engineering. Sounds like fun. 

[Huzo]

I think you should only do it with a set of old amal cards where you have to prime them to start the bike!!!

Nice to hear from you…!

[Huzo]

Depending on the limit of your madness,    you could find a way to put a magneto on it, with a simple "kill" switch. A pair of 36 or 40mm carbs ought to do. Then you could fit the biggest gravity fed petrol tank imaginable. Not sure what all nanny wiring need to be  bypassed/altered to maintain the starter and charging systems. OR:  I'm not sure if an older Guzzi camshaft with dizzy gear on it will retrofit to the Norge engine. My Guzzi experience ends at about Model 1993, lol. If so, you could machine a hole for either a distributor, or the above mentioned  magneto. Anyway you do it would require some Appalachian Engineering. Sounds like fun. 

Hmmm……
I wonder if some guy who has been tearing his hair  out (what’s left of it) would think of that, when he’s having unending trouble with his TPS, or cannot fathom the intricacies of Guzzidiag, or is trying to find out what trouble code P1154467 means…
All in a parking lot out the back of a biker barn in down town Los Angeles @ 2:00 am.
Just asking…

[piecemealadventurer]

Seriously it has been done. I remember seeing a carbed custom griso on custom lane at Mandello. Also, on another forum, Ive read of a guy putting carbies on an EV Cali.  Less sensors to deal with but said it would took a week to assemble. Ill try and find it

[Frenchfrog]

It can be done and rather easily I think.There have been a few people over my neck of the woods who have done it with Griso's and i was pondering putting a Bellagio lump in my Tonti.
The Bellagio graft would be pretty simple as the inlet manifolds are 40 mm as far as I can make out and I have some 40 mm Dellortos .The ignition side of things would be taken care by a Sachse ignition which goes on top of the alternator on the end of the crank and I also already have that.
The Norge almost certainly uses bigger throttle bodies and ideally you would want to match your carbs to that...you'd be struggling to find any carb bigger than 46 mm though and even that size will be hard to find and expensive when you do...unless the Chinese knock offs are going that big.One way around the carb size limitation is to use multiple carbs on each cylinder and I know just the people over here to guide you through that one .Tuning that set up would certainly keep us entertained for a long while too
...ideally you'd use an A/F ratio meter and work from there.

[piecemealadventurer]

Hmm interesting.
I really, really hesitate to disagree with these experts but I've just converted a '98 Cali EV from EFI and found it quite straightforward and really did not find it to be "infinitely complex".
Ignition was a simple matter of fitting a Sachse-Electronic CDI on the crank and as to "controlling 2 carbs", all that's needed is a small modification to a Daytona 2C throttle and cables to length. The choke system can manage quite happily with an old fashioned cable splitter.
My process:-
-remove the EFI, fuel pump, fuel filter and EFI related wiring, re-wire stand cut-off switch
-install CDI on crank with dyna coils, route wire from CDI module to tach
-fit 40mm pumpers with Daytona 2C throttle, new start/on-off switch, carb cables to length
-match stock choke cable to carb's with cable splitter
-blank off cam and flywheel sensors

Took me only a week as the wiring system appears to be a Cali carb layout with EFI grafted on so, conversion was straightforward i.e. simply removing EFI related wiring. The remainder of the wiring (generalising here) manages the bike's non-EFI systems quite happily.
I've done several hundred miles now with no apparent issues. (mind you, I still have my fingers crossed)
I'm no ace mechanic but, as I say, none of this was particularly difficult or expensive.
Disclaimer:
On the other hand, my experience with Todd's EFI re-flash and the PC-Autotune on my Griso tells me that a well set up EFI is a joy to ride
and the EFI re-flash/Power Commander would certainly be the cheaper option for your Jackal.
My mods to the EV were founded on a love of old-school simplicity, owner tune-ability, lack of frame clutter and roadside fixability so may not relate to what you're looking for anyway.
N.B.
Please, please!
No comments about the ruining of a perfectly good EV (take note 'The Groper'!)
Copied from elsewhere

[gregorm1503]

Excellent topic... and experience share.

[tris]

......cannot fathom the intricacies of Guzzidiag, or is trying to find out what trouble code P1154467 means…

If the desire is to extricate yourself from the Magneti Marelli/Moto Guzzi ECU then a Megasquirt/Microsquirt might be an option..... I'm aware that google might lead you to some "curious" websites so check before clicking 

http://www.megasquirtuk.co.uk/  https://megasquirt.info/educational


I contemplated this when wondering how to sort out the POs messing with the sacred screw on my B1100 as all the sensors needed are already on the bike

Tris

PS the guys that designed this ECU initially wrote a good book on the subject.
If anyone is interested let me know and I'll get the title when I get home

[Huzo]

Are y’all bringing the ignition timing into the equation, because the TPS commands the advance/retard setting for various RPM/throttle setting combinations ?
Is this the beginning of the inescapable complexity, that such an episode of madness invites ?

[Frenchfrog]

Just uses a sachse or better still ignitech ignition  https://www.ignitech.cz/en/.
Also some carbs have a TPS too but that will seriously add to the expense unless you can get a second hand set.

[Shiny Hat]

Can it be done? Yes.
Should it be done? No.
FI isn’t foolproof though, plenty of folks verifying this.

[Tom H]

IIRR, it has been done on a Cali using the ECU for the ignition. The map was written to not use all the sensors, but a planned timing advance.

Tom

[PJPR01]

Huzo...the Norge isn't a V11 that requires a manual TPS reset or set....it's done electronically via Guzzidiag....thankf ully as setting the TPS to 157 mv via a Casper cable and gently tapping is one of the pains in the ass on getting the V11's to run smoothly without a cough.  Seriously, Guzzidiag is NOT hard to learn to manage...I can guarantee you over a 2 hour session here in the garage in Houston when you come thru you will emerge comfortable with the intricacies of Guzzidiag.  Auto learning parameters, Beetlemap, Guzzidiag/read/write are quite simple.

Now if you're going to mount some beautifully manufactured, visually appealing CARBS that are easier to synch than old SU carbs with a Unisyn, I would love to see it....knock yourself out and send us pics once done.

[Perazzimx14]

You do what you want but personally I wouldn't bother as there is really no gain by adding carbs. Even if it was a quick easy thing to do I just could ne see investing well over a grand is good carbs and custom adapters. YMMV.

[lazlokovacs]

I've converted Calvins in the past, no problems

you can either just write a map with a simple traditional advance curve and just use the ecu as it is

or you can fit the scahse at the crank and get rid of a lot of wiring and some money at the same time


I've done both and they both work great.


I've also JB welded the injector ports on Griso intake manifolds to use them for carbs and had no problems there either.

Happy to go into it in further detail if you so desire

YMMV

 

[Hacksaw]

Can it be done ?
Should it be done ?
What ridiculous gremlins could/would it conceivably introduce into an already “foolproof”  system ?
Grafting the hardware onto the bike would not faze me, but the potential electronic gremlins would keep me awake at night.
BTW…
Don’t tell me…”I wouldn’t bother…”

The late John Boettcher, known here as Ratguzzi. Did what you're discussing to an EV 'Hydro' engine. I don't recall the year but I'm pretty sure a search here will locate all his info. I'm not sure if he left the ECU in place long term or not but I think I recall a curve issue giving him some issues early on. I also, think I recall, he had a block machined and a distributor installed where it 'did not belong' with a cam to drive it, but I'm not sure if that was the EV Hydro or not.
The man was a true wonder, and improvisor of the greatest magnitude. May he rest in peace and the experiences and knowledge he shared be passed on.

[Huzo]

You do what you want but personally I wouldn't bother as there is really no gain by adding carbs. Even if it was a quick easy thing to do I just could ne see investing well over a grand is good carbs and custom adapters. YMMV.

The very first Guzzi I ever rode was a carbied, Sport 1100.
It gasped, wheezed, and smelled fantastic and I loved the intake sound.
It seemed slightly dangerous…. Magic !
Anyway, if I had managed to successfully set the Norge on fire in France and destroyed the wiring, such a venture would hold some degree of attractiveness.